Marvel Films The Marvel Studios News and Discussion Thread

[psylockolussus]

The other day, I just watched Love/Thunder for the first time after watching it in the theater back in 2022.

Its an entertaining film but its flaws are clearly seen. If only they made it more serious and not throw in so many jokes, it would really hold more weight, especially with Jane's final days, and having a dark villain. It should have been really a personal film. But they went overboard with the jokes which really overshadowed the film's strengths. And I couldn't stand Taika's voice as Korg. It was such a distraction.

 

[DyeLorean]

The other day, I just watched Love/Thunder for the first time after watching it in the theater back in 2022.

Its an entertaining film but its flaws are clearly seen. If only they made it more serious and not throw in so many jokes, it would really hold more weight, especially with Jane's final days, and having a dark villain. It should have been really a personal film. But they went overboard with the jokes which really overshadowed the film's strengths. And I couldn't stand Taika's voice as Korg. It was such a distraction.

Korg is the clear representation of something that worked in Ragnarok but didn't in Love & Thunder. Same with Valkyrie, useless props.

 

[Venom 1988]

Korg is the clear representation of something that worked in Ragnarok but didn't in Love & Thunder. Same with Valkyrie, useless props.

I love Korg but for me, Korg works in small doses, like how he was in Ragnarok. But L&T tripled down on him and he kinda lost his what made him work in the first place.

 

[Bayne]

Korg didn't work for me at all in Ragnarok. He still wasn't very funny in L&T, but had a few moments at least. And in L&T he was actually a 3 dimensional character instead of just bad jokes. He was even relevant to the core theme of the movie for once.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

I still liked the hammer joke in Ragnarok. I felt Korg was at least more restrained in that movie.

The first Thor is still my favorite and while I get a lot of general audience-goers probably liked Thor's reinvention in Ragnarok, there's a noticeable tonal shift going from that to not Love and Thunder, but Infinity War.

 

[psylockolussus]

The first Thor movie was awesome! There were only a handful of Marvel IPs that had a critically well received movie at that time - X-Men, Spider-Man and Iron Man. Fourth one was Thor. So it was quite refreshing and exciting that there was a well made Thor movie. The Hulk movies were around the 60s in Rotten Tomatoes, so I don't consider below 70% as well reviewed movies.

Thor 2011 is also my favorite Thor movie.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[squeekness]

Korg didn't work for me at all in Ragnarok. He still wasn't very funny in L&T, but had a few moments at least. And in L&T he was actually a 3 dimensional character instead of just bad jokes. He was even relevant to the core theme of the movie for once.

The movies would have been fine without him. I'm not a fan.

 

[MarvelFan]

The worst part of Love and Thunder was that it had so many good ideas, good concepts, and a story that should have been epic- and it was turned into a parody.

Agreed 1000%...they adapted the best storyline in Thor's comics lore in recent years and they turned it into a sitcom comedy.
What a big miss-opportunity right there!

 

[psylockolussus]

I just finished marathoning the first ten movies of the Multiverse Saga and despite all the flaws, all films are entertaining. One of the more jarring things I've noticed is most of the ips that got a movie so far in the Multiverse Saga + the 2024/25 line up, only has 1 movie so far in this saga.

1. Black Widow
2. Shang-Chi
3. Eternals
4. Spider-Man
5. Dr. Strange
6. Thor
7. Black Panther
8. Ant-Man
9. Guardians
10. Captain Marvel
11. Deadpool
12. Captain America
13. Thunderbolts
14. Fantastic 4
15. Blade

That's 15 different ips, and only Spider-Man might be getting a sequel soon, if they film this year. A lot of sequel-baits haven't been resolved yet. Other supporting characters have nowhere to show up because why would they appear in another character's movie. I simply don't want this for The Third Saga, in which they have 10 ips and we will have to wait years to see the movie #2. I'd hate to wait 5 years just to get a new X-Men/f4 sequel. So I hope they map out their films much better.

Looking at the Infinity Saga, we got a trilogy for Iron Man, Captain America and Thor. 2 movies for Ant-Man, Guardians and Spider-Man. And a quadrilogy for the Avengers. The others who had 1 movie showed up right away in Avengers 3. And it was much easier to follow.

And its weird, counting Blade. It would be 15 films since the Multiverse Saga began without an Avengers movie...

 

[Pennywise]

 

[psylockolussus]

They probably should lower it to two films minimum per year. Unless all three films are guaranteed to succeed - box office and quality wise.

I believe "2 shows per year" when I see it. Does it include the cartoons? This year alone, Marvel will have 3 shows. Echo, X-Men and Agatha. For the next two years, there's X-Men 97 season 2/3, What If season 3, Marvel Zombies, Daredevil, Ironheart, Wonder Man and possibly Vision Quest waiting to be released. And this is not even including other projects they will film next year and in 2026. It should only be 1 Marvel show annually, to make the show even more special.

4 to 5 projects per year is still a lot. Thats 8 to 10 projects in 24 months... Disney needs to stop heavily relying on Marvel Studios by ordering them to produce so many projects in such a small period of time.

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah I think it will still be a lot too. Three movies had been the case at the peak of MCU's popularity and that was without any Disney+ TV content (Marvel Television doesn't really count). It's a step to the right direction but it's still quite a bit of content. And let's not forget that officially next year they are still supposed to release four MCU movies, even if we all knew that Blade was going to be delayed yet again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think that output is reasonable. Its what they were essentially doing in the later part of the Infinity Saga on the movie side. They just need to figure out how to make more consistently better shows

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah I think it will still be a lot too. Three movies had been the case at the peak of MCU's popularity and that was without any Disney+ TV content (Marvel Television doesn't really count). It's a step to the right direction but it's still quite a bit of content. And let's not forget that officially next year they are still supposed to release four MCU movies, even if we all knew that Blade was going to be delayed yet again.

And Spider-Man 4 could make it to 2025. It depends when they start filming it and we still have 7 1/2 months left in this year. If Sony is really eager to release it next year (Dec), there could be 4 mcu movies in 2025.

I hope in SDCC/D23, they will give us an updated road map for 2025 to 2027. Shang-Chi 2, Avengers 5/6 (if they are keeping those dates), sequels to phase4/5 films and X-Men (if the production news is accurate). I really want to know if they plan to end the Multiverse Saga in 3 years or if its gonna be extended til 2028 or 2029.

At one time, they were planning to release Avengers 5 and 6 for 2025. Which still sounds crazy, just looking back.

 

[Filmfreak]

I think that output is reasonable. Its what they were essentially doing in the later part of the Infinity Saga on the movie side. They just need to figure out how to make more consistently better shows

Even if we could disregard the Disney+ shows, the three movies thing was happening at their peak, where everyone and their mother was watching those films. Now, after last year, they're literally at their very bottom and the movies that they're making are with characters audiences aren't resonating much. Bottom line, that made more sense when the plan was to have a number of sequels and many new heroes to introduce, but now making films like Eternals, Thunderbolts, Captain America 4 with Sam Wilson ain't cutting it box office-wise.

So three movies is still a lot within this new context. Now imagine having a couple of TV shows that directly related to the films as well. Yeah, sorry, the way I see it it's still more than they should be making.

 

[psylockolussus]

If they have Spider-Man 4, Avengers and Shang-Chi 2 coming out in the same year, it would be a winning trio at the box office. Dr. Strange 3, Avengers, Black Panther 3 would be a winning trio too.

For 2025, its Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts* and the 2nd Fantastic 4 reboot.... yeah like I said in the other thread, I don't know why they thought this line up plus Blade was a good idea, even before The Marvels flopped. I didn't think that was very strategic. I wish we were getting Brave New World in November. To space them out better. 3 movies from Feb to July 2025 are too much especially with that line up.

Thunderbolts* should at least open the summer movie season better than The Fall Guys. But I'm not confident how will Fantastic 4 will perform next year, in the same season as Superman.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

The first Thor movie was awesome! There were only a handful of Marvel IPs that had a critically well received movie at that time - X-Men, Spider-Man and Iron Man. Fourth one was Thor. So it was quite refreshing and exciting that there was a well made Thor movie. The Hulk movies were around the 60s in Rotten Tomatoes, so I don't consider below 70% as well reviewed movies.

Thor 2011 is also my favorite Thor movie.

Thor 1 had a lot of really awesome, memorable scenes. I miss the unique vibe Phase 1 often had compared to later phases.

 

[psylockolussus]

Thor 1 had a lot of really awesome, memorable scenes. I miss the unique vibe Phase 1 often had compared to later phases.

I feel like Phase 1 had "newness feel" to them, especially when they just came out.

And I don't think Marvel Studios can replicate it again, even with films like Eternals/Shang-Chi, it just don't feel the same, compare to the early years of the MCU.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I feel like Phase 1 had "newness feel" to them, especially when they just came out.

And I don't think Marvel Studios can replicate it again, even with films like Eternals/Shang-Chi, it just don't feel the same, compare to the early years of the MCU.

Yeah it's kind of impossible to artificially recreate the vibe of a franchise when it's first starting out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Even if we could disregard the Disney+ shows, the three movies thing was happening at their peak, where everyone and their mother was watching those films. Now, after last year, they're literally at their very bottom and the movies that they're making are with characters audiences aren't resonating much. Bottom line, that made more sense when the plan was to have a number of sequels and many new heroes to introduce, but now making films like Eternals, Thunderbolts, Captain America 4 with Sam Wilson ain't cutting it box office-wise.

So three movies is still a lot within this new context. Now imagine having a couple of TV shows that directly related to the films as well. Yeah, sorry, the way I see it it's still more than they should be making.

We have to wait and see if last year was an anomaly or if they will see an ongoing decline. While there was some depreciation from movie to movie, they still made money on most of their recent output. Plus Iger has said they're going to focus more on less risky stuff, so it makes sense. There are a lot of IPs, and if you only do 1 or 2 movies a year, that means long turn around for sequels. Which is a problem they have now and one reason I would argue there is a decline. You need your heavy hitters to be more visible and more quickly. Luke by this stage, Shang-Chi should have had a sequel. Now when the sequel happens, it may not do what they hoped cause they waited too long, the good will isn't there as strongly, are the character didn't stay visible while there was a gap. So I think 2 or 3 movies a year is fine. They just have to focus on the right output. The TV side is the one that has more issues right now

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Thor 1 had a lot of really awesome, memorable scenes. I miss the unique vibe Phase 1 often had compared to later phases.

Still the best Thor film in my opinion.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah it's kind of impossible to artificially recreate the vibe of a franchise when it's first starting out.

I feel like Shang-Chi and Eternals, despite being "different" from the previous mcu films since they were new Ips to the mcu, didn't feel that brand new because there were a lot of other projects released in 2021. We got 4 live action shows, What If? cartoon and we got two more films featuring familiar faces. It was an mcu explosion in 2021 - after a year of zero new release. Shang-Chi and Eternals were just two of the many projects at that time.

i feel like in hindsight, Phase 4 should have been the breather that mcu needed after the gigantic success of Phase 3. They were still successful during phase 4 (box office wise) though it ultimately led to diminishing quality and in phase 5, box office drops.

Next year, will be interesting, if they continue to drop or if those 3 films they are releasing somehow collect big numbers. The live action shows, I don't care anymore, they are merely background noise for me. I just hope if the future shows somehow become really successful or popular, that Disney won't get greedy by ordering more shows.

Imagine if Pixar were releasing at least 3 movies per year, and at least two shows. Their output would have been worse. I don't think I've seen any franchise with this much output in such a short period of time. I can't name any Hollywood film franchise that has 33 films plus a bunch of shows connected to it. Its crazy and things could have been worse especially if this was under Sony, the old Fox and WB.

 

[Filmfreak]

We have to wait and see if last year was an anomaly or if they will see an ongoing decline. While there was some depreciation from movie to movie, they still made money on most of their recent output. Plus Iger has said they're going to focus more on less risky stuff, so it makes sense. There are a lot of IPs, and if you only do 1 or 2 movies a year, that means long turn around for sequels. Which is a problem they have now and one reason I would argue there is a decline. You need your heavy hitters to be more visible and more quickly. Luke by this stage, Shang-Chi should have had a sequel. Now when the sequel happens, it may not do what they hoped cause they waited too long, the good will isn't there as strongly, are the character didn't stay visible while there was a gap. So I think 2 or 3 movies a year is fine. They just have to focus on the right output. The TV side is the one that has more issues right now

I mean, there has been a decline in 80% of superhero content in general in the last year and a half, it's not just with Marvel. Nor is it coincidental that their two and only huge box office bombs happened in the same year. The decline is obvious and it's real. Same for TV when numbers have been going down with each show.

And judging on the content on both films and shows, profit will be the exception in the future, unless they really change things up. Deadpool and F4 will probably be successful, but Sam Wilson, Thunderbolts, War Machine and Blade (if it doesn't have a small budget) are almost guaranteed to flop at this point. And equally Daredevil will probably be a hit, but then you have Agatha, Ironheart and Wonder Man, so yeah. I feel comfortable in believing that the pattern is real, but for those who don't buy it yet, I guess you're going to have to wait and see.