The MATRIX Appreciation Thread

[Alien Anal]

Give an artist a butt load of money and hey capitalism aint so bad

 

[BatLobster]

Thanks for replying!

So do you think that there would be any remaining survivors from times of Zion being destroyed that finally got to see The One not sell out and make the difference?

Heck look at the tech they have here!??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt5z3OEjDzU

I mean if every time The One is caught and Zion is killed then how long does it take for them to start up Zion again? Its pretty damned advanced for a group of people that arrive via the dumpster

That much is unclear. I'd imagine it would take multiple generations, as repopulating an entire city isn't going to happen overnight. Also, the fact that the elder Councilmen don't seem to believe in The One and are amazed by Neo's power would suggest that they're several generations removed.

The worst part of the sequels is that they completely neutralize the message of the first and far superior first film.

No longer is the message "rebel against the status quo to find your own path, your own purpose and your own truth".

The new message becomes "meh, if you can't beat em, join em".

Which makes me wonder when the Wachowskis decided to change the message. Did they become disillusioned after the release of The Matrix or were they cynics from the beginning?

Uh, no. That is not the new message. Once you taken in the greater mythology, including the Animatrix, it becomes clear that it's not a black/white situation and the machines cannot just be classified as "evil". "Evil" is something the machines learned from their creators: man. Thus, man and machine have to ascend together. Kind of beautiful. I don't think there was any change in message though. The first film drops a huge hint when it reveals that humans were the ones to scorch the sky. The first movie just sticks to a simple good guy vs bad guy paradigm, because it keeps it self-contained, familiar and easy to digest. It was the best way to introduce audiences to that world. So much is kept from us in the first movie really...like the fact that The Oracle was a program.

Neo creates a future where the people who feel oppressed by the status quo will be offered a chance to find their own path and will not be met with any violent resistance if they want to wake up and unplug. The ones that want to continue sleeping, they can do that too. Unplugging everyone to the harsh realities of a post-apocalyptic world wouldn't go so smoothly. There's a lot of Cyphers in the world who would prefer to enjoy their steak.

Before this can even happen though, Neo has to first give "the master plan" in a HUGE middle finger in Reloaded. So no, it's definitely not a "if you can't beat em, join em" type of message. If that were the case, Neo would've fell in line and did exactly what the previous Ones did.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's exactly it. The original Matrix has you biting your nails whenever the Agents appear.

What the sequels also lack is HEART! You really feel for the characters in the first movie. The relationship between Neo and Morpheus is wonderfully developed, as is the one between Trinity and Neo, which is resolved in a very touching scene (which I love, and which makes Neo's subsequent badassery even more badass). It has that magic which the Wachowski failed to replicate in the sequels. Instead the characters ended up being caricatures of themselves in them, and the sense of peril was gone. Unfortunately they pushed for concepts, concepts, and more concepts, and of course the coolness factor, which many raved about after the release of the first movie (somehow it's as if they forgot what they originally wrote and instead went with what they read in the press about their own movie). They tried too hard to deliver that much talked about coolness, forgetting the heart of the story.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The funny thing is that the side characters are actually given full fledged arcs. But the W's have such a cold, clinical sense of directing that you don't give a single care about them. I was utterly unmoved by the slaughter of Zion because they didn't matter to me. Other than several instances of unintentional humor because the Asian guy's screaming was so damn over the top.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That much is unclear. I'd imagine it would take multiple generations, as repopulating an entire city isn't going to happen overnight. Also, the fact that the elder Councilmen don't seem to believe in The One and are amazed by Neo's power would suggest that they're several generations removed.



Uh, no. That is not the new message. Once you taken in the greater mythology, including the Animatrix, it becomes clear that it's not a black/white situation and the machines cannot just be classified as "evil". "Evil" is something the machines learned from their creators: man. Thus, man and machine have to ascend together. Kind of beautiful. I don't think there was any change in message though. The first film drops a huge hint when it reveals that humans were the ones to scorch the sky. The first movie just sticks to a simple good guy vs bad guy paradigm, because it keeps it self-contained, familiar and easy to digest. It was the best way to introduce audiences to that world. So much is kept from us in the first movie really...like the fact that The Oracle was a program.

Neo creates a future where the people who feel oppressed by the status quo will be offered a chance to find their own path and will not be met with any violent resistance if they want to wake up and unplug. The ones that want to continue sleeping, they can do that too. Unplugging everyone to the harsh realities of a post-apocalyptic world wouldn't go so smoothly. There's a lot of Cyphers in the world who would prefer to enjoy their steak.

Before this can even happen though, Neo has to first give "the master plan" in a HUGE middle finger in Reloaded. So no, it's definitely not a "if you can't beat em, join em" type of message. If that were the case, Neo would've fell in line and did exactly what the previous Ones did.

But Neo ends up merging with the machines rendering all the previous rebellion pointless.

All he did was make the Matrix a more efficient system for predicting radical elements.

It's practically the opposite message of the first film.

The machines were antagonist in the first film because they created a false reality while draining our life force. Now it becomes something we should completely accept/support because machines are not evil, they're just being reasonable.

Complete 180.

 

[Warhammer]

I had to watch the first film in my film class a few weeks back. One thing I never really noticed (and damn, how was I so oblivious to it?) was that as Neo is progressing to becoming the One, Smith is progressing to becoming an individual. He is the only agent who shows any kind of emotion. He is the only agent we see with his glasses off. I can go on. In retrospect, we see the Matrix slowly creating the equilibrium that is spoken about in the sequels.

 

[BatLobster]

But Neo ends up merging with the machines rendering all the previous rebellion pointless.

All he did was make the Matrix a more efficient system for predicting radical elements.

It's practically the opposite message of the first film.

The machines were antagonist in the first film because they created a false reality while draining our life force. Now it becomes something we should completely accept/support because machines are not evil, they're just being reasonable.

Complete 180.

Neo did nothing to render all the previous rebellion pointless. The previous rebellion was all part of the plan, it was pointless to begin with. We previously thought him taking the red pill was the big act of defiance where he breaks away from what the status quo has designed for him. But he's still a cog in the machine until the moment he chooses the door to his left at the end of Reloaded.

Is it a change from what we originally thought was going on? Of course, they turned the story on its head. That doesn't mean it's a complete betrayal though.

It's not about the machines just being reasonable/logical either. Part of the machines' evolution in the trilogy is they are exhibiting more human qualities, like emotion. As evidenced in Smith, The Oracle, The Merovingian, Ramachandra and his family, etc. This is made pretty explicit. Like The Oracle says, "the only way forward is together". The complete destruction of the machines and The Matrix would have been a simpler, but ultimately more hollow conclusion to the series.

It was a series that started out being about war, and in the end was about peace. An uneasy peace, but it's a step. It was true to life.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis. Right?

 

[BatLobster]

Thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis. Right?

Bingo.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Neo did nothing to render all the previous rebellion pointless. The previous rebellion was all part of the plan, it was pointless to begin with. We previously thought him taking the red pill was the big act of defiance where he breaks away from what the status quo has designed for him. But he's still a cog in the machine until the moment he chooses the door to his left at the end of Reloaded.

Is it a change from what we originally thought was going on? Of course, they turned the story on its head. That doesn't mean it's a complete betrayal though.

It's not about the machines just being reasonable/logical either. Part of the machines' evolution in the trilogy is they are exhibiting more human qualities, like emotion. As evidenced in Smith, The Oracle, The Merovingian, Ramachandra and his family, etc. This is made pretty explicit. Like The Oracle says, "the only way forward is together". The complete destruction of the machines and The Matrix would have been a simpler, but ultimately more hollow conclusion to the series.

I think there were other endings possible like giving humans control of their own sub-Matrix almost in a founding fathers kind of way. Or perhaps the machines could appear to lose but nobody is sure if it's just an illusion and they're all plugged in but the humans have achieved their ideal world like Inception. Anything other than suggesting that rebellion is a pointless endeavor.

It was a series that started out being about war, and in the end was about peace. An uneasy peace, but it's a step. It was true to life.

I agree it was a compromise that happens in the end but in real life revolutions either result in complete failure or a new hierarchy. So I disagree the compromise was a more realistic depiction of where revolutions usually end up.

 

[Warhammer]

Wasn't the peace just temporary? I mean, there had to be another iteration of the Matrix right? And the cycle begins all over again with a new chosen one, etc.

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

Wasn't the peace just temporary? I mean, there had to be another iteration of the Matrix right? And the cycle begins all over again with a new chosen one, etc.

The Matrix as a virtual reality for machine-made humans isn't dismantled at the end of Revolutions. It still exists... it was just the machines won't try to keep the humans sleeping, there will be no Agents chasing after them. If the humans choose to go out of the Matrix they could easily do so without being hunted down.

 

[Warhammer]

The Matrix as a virtual reality for machine-made humans isn't dismantled at the end of Revolutions. It still exists... it was just the machines won't try to keep the humans sleeping, there will be no Agents chasing after them. If the humans choose to go out of the Matrix they could easily do so without being hunted down.

My ass would stay right in the Matrix.

 

[titansupes]

I'm itching to give the trilogy a re-watch after all this uptick in discussion. Been a long time.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

My ass would stay right in the Matrix.

Yeah that's like immigrating to a Third World country because the American dream was too good to be true.

It's weird because I despised Cypher for betraying everyone in The Matrix 1. But after seeing the sequels and how lame Zion was its like "okay maybe he was onto something".

 

[titansupes]

^ Are you telling me you wouldn't give up this world for some pretty sweet rave-in-the-mud-with-bongo-drum cave sex?

 

[Alien Anal]

My girlfriend has not watched the matrix before and I want to show it to her but i am thinking it might make it more interesting if she was to watch the renaissance pt 1-2 first seeings as the matrix these days wouldnt be as mind blowing as it was back in the day

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

I'm itching to give the trilogy a re-watch after all this uptick in discussion. Been a long time.

I didn't outright hate the sequels after I've seen them and was confused and instead looked for an explanation, and this site http://thematrix101.com/ helped me in understanding what the Wachowskis were trying to tell. The explanations even made me a fan of the trilogy.

 

[Warhammer]

Yeah that's like immigrating to a Third World country because the American dream was too good to be true.

It's weird because I despised Cypher for betraying everyone in The Matrix 1. But after seeing the sequels and how lame Zion was its like "okay maybe he was onto something".

Haha, exactly. I can't really blame the guy too much for betraying the team. Eating that white s*** everyday and living in the sewers. Having to fear for your life everyday from either sentinels or agents.

 

[flickchick85]

Haha, exactly. I can't really blame the guy too much for betraying the team. Eating that white s*** everyday and living in the sewers. Having to fear for your life everyday from either sentinels or agents.

Yeah, I always said watching those movies, the Matrix has all the appeal and the real world has none. I saw no compelling reason to actually leave it, lol.

 

[max314]

http://thematrix101.com/ helped me in understanding what the Wachowskis were trying to tell. The explanations even made me a fan of the trilogy.

That site is a great initiative, but there is a lot of incorrect information on there.

I contributed a correction to the Revolutions synopsis some years ago because it was too glaring to overlook – but all the talk of a "Matrix within a Matrix" is massively misleading.

I'm looking to create my own Matrix resource with more definitive information about what I've learned about the trilogy's mis-understood plot over the last 12 years.

Not understanding the trilogy's basic plot is, I believe, a huge hinderance towards its enjoyment.

 

[BatLobster]

These two essays are all you need when it comes to the sequels:

http://blogs.wylfing.net/coronas/the-matrix-reloaded-explained/

http://blogs.wylfing.net/coronas/the-matrix-revolutions-explained/

Seriously, these are THE best texts on the internet when it comes to "decoding" what the sequels were all about, bar none. Look no further. And they're a great, fun read too. You know this guy was on the right track when back in May 2003, he accurately predicted just about everything that would happen in Revolutions in his Reloaded essay while the rest of the world was going "wait what lol".

I seriously recommend these to anyone who's ever put any amount of deep thought into the Matrix movies. It will blow your mind.

 

[max314]

These two essays are all you need when it comes to the sequels:


http://blogs.wylfing.net/coronas/the-matrix-revolutions-explained/

Seriously, these are THE best texts on the internet when it comes to "decoding" what the sequels were all about...

[...]

You know this guy was on the right track when back in May 2003, he accurately predicted just about everything that would happen in Revolutions in his Reloaded essay while the rest of the world was going "wait what lol".

Yeah, I remember he predicted the end of the trilogy right down the ****ing sunrise, haha...

They're probably the most important essays ever written on the intricate tapestry of themes and symbolism that constitute the Matrix sequels.

I'm not sure it's "all you need" since the essays assume that people understand the basic plot of the sequels, which – as I mentioned earlier – isn't the case for everybody.

 

[BatLobster]

Mileage may vary of course, but I do think they're so clearly written and well-articulated that just about anyone should be able to enjoy them. All I know is, I've showed those essays to friends of mine who weren't the hugest fans of the sequels and they came away with a whole new appreciation for them.

There is of course, a lot of great dialogue out there based on The Matrix (including Ken Wilbur and Dr. Cornel West's commentary tracks), but in terms of being able to go from "I don't quite get it" to "Holy sh** I get it!", I think the above essays are tops. They certainly did that for me back in the day- granted I was 16/17 when Rel/Revs came out.

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

That site is a great initiative, but there is a lot of incorrect information on there.

I contributed a correction to the Revolutions synopsis some years ago because it was too glaring to overlook – but all the talk of a "Matrix within a Matrix" is massively misleading.

I'm looking to create my own Matrix resource with more definitive information about what I've learned about the trilogy's mis-understood plot over the last 12 years.

Not understanding the trilogy's basic plot is, I believe, a huge hinderance towards its enjoyment.

Oh you're that max.

The Matrix-within-matrix part of the site is not really misleading though since they immediately say that it was just a popular fan theory.

And besides what I really recommend from that site are the articles from the Revolutions section. Those were enough for me to understand the entire trilogy.

I'm also reading now the links provided by BatLobsterRises.