The Myth of Batman and My Concerns about "Fan Appreciation"

[CFE]

A story can become legend...and a legend can become myth.

But how so, in the real world, is this done?

Simple...by allowing the story to grow and evolve. By allowing it to expand and become enriched. By allowing the characters to age, adapt and reflect on the ever changing times and climates of social issues, political and historic events and the personalities and preferences of those who thrill to the adventure.

A prime example, of course...is DC Comics crime-fighting vigilante:

BATMAN

Batman and his world of allies and rogues, more than any other comic book universe, has had the fortune of being afforded the aforementioned opportunies.

Here is some of Jeph Loeb's Forward from Scott Beatty's "Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight." Slightly paraphrased by me:

----------------------

Created by a teenaged Bob Kane in 1939, Batman combined the best of a dozen great fictional heroes (and villians). He's equal parts Sherlock Holmes, Zorro, Scarlet Pimpernel, The Shadow and Dracula; with a host of gadgets and vehicles that even James Bond could never equal.

Batman's origin was the stuff of classical literature. An orphan alone in a cruel world Dickens never dreamed up. The most self-made of all self-made men in pop culture.

Each decade had brought with it a new Batman...never changing but rather adapted for the times.

He was born in the Great Depression and his early tales are dark and brooding. In the 1940s he became more upbeat, more patriotic with an emphasis on detective work with his new sidekick, Robin the Boy Wonder. The 1950s saw Batman traveling to outer space or dealing with strange scientific anomalies created by the Atomic Age. In the tragically hip 1960s his adventures bordered on parody with his host of villians becoming all the more colorful. The 1970s saw a return to his darker side with a more hardboiled approach to crime. In the 1980s we saw his darkest transformation into a haunted loner obsessed with the vow to his long dead parents. The 1990s saw more emphasis on stories on a granduer, apocalyptic scale. And in this post-modern time, he is a an avenging soldier, too smart and incorruptible to be overtaken as he wages his war with a fully wired and uncompromising system of allies and technology.

Through all of this Batman and company remain true to the essence of their characters. That just goes to show what an indestructible template the world of Gotham City is.

----------------

It is the concept of varying and multiple interpretation that allows Batman to thrive as the great story...the great legend...the great myth that he is.

And it is this concept that fans can't seem to grasp.

For too long I have seen those claiming to be fans of the character...yet they undermine and mock the works of Joel Schumacher...or of Adam West...and now, in the aftermath of director Christopher Nolan's 2nd Batman work...people are even looking down upon and pissing on the works of Tim Burton.

I just fail to see the point in complaining, honestly and personally.

Instead of spending all this time whining about different visions of Batman we should, as fans, be spending that time praising the fact that our character, more so than the likes of Superman or Spider-Man or the X-men, is granted the chance to be depicted under such a wide array of lights and visions.

There's Nolan's Batman...Burton's Batman. There's Schumacher's Batman and Timm's Batman.

Finger's Batman
Miller's Batman
Aparo's Batman
Sprang's Batman
Breyfogle's Batman
Dozier's Batman
Capizzi's Batman
Loeb's Batman
Didio's Batman
Keaton's Batman
Bale's Batman
West's Batman
Conroy's Batman
My Batman
Your Batman
His Batman
Her Batman

The 1940s Batman serials...

The 1960s Batman show...

The 1970s Batman cartoons...

The 1990s Batman films...

Batman Forever...Batman Beyond...Batman Begins...Batman Returns...The Dark Knight...Batman & Robin...

And 70 years of Comics, Novels, Radio Shows, Video Games, TV, animation, film.

Every single bit of it is Batman...every single bit of it...and it is all good in some form or fashion.

You can have your favorite.

If you like the Nolan films, great.
If you thrill to the Adam West show, fantastic.
If you brood along with the Burton films, good for you.
If you get a kick out of "The Batman," more power to you.

But there is no reason to undermine the interpretations that do not fall in league with your own in the process of appreciating your own Batman...none at all.

I grew up with Burton's films...they will always be my Batman of choice. But as a true fan of the character, I will never use my preference as an excuse to look down upon other visions that bear the name 'Batman.'

If you feel that "The Dark Knight" is the greatest depiction of Batman that you've seen, fine...in fact you're more than welcome to say so.

Just don't s**t all over other interpretations in the process...That's all.

As long as there are fans of the character that have grown up through the generations and have been exposed to the Batman universe through the differintiating visions and reinventions that have appeared across the decades...there will never be a worthwhile reason for mindless bashing.

But this is only my feeling, my opinion...there's nothing I can do to sway those that will continue to speak ill of the depictions of Batman that do not appeal to them personally.

It's just my observation that it's a fruitless endeavor that will bring about nothing but unecessary arguement on this board and a vicious cycle of disputing and absurdity that for reasons that escape me we can never seem to abandon in favor of just appreciating the character...period.

Just my thoughts...I don't mean for this thread to bring about arguement, so please hold silence if that's all you intend to do.

CFE

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I 100% agree with you CFE, thanks for posting such good mind candy!

 

[Cain]

Excellent thread CFE now everytime I see somebody whinning about the "true Batman" in the future I'll save sometime and just link them to this thread.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

full of errors.

 

[Cain]

If logic is an error then yeah.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I am not longer going to fight the windmills. When someone calls the 70s "hardboiled" ,the 80s Batman the "darkest transformation" and Batman based on "Dracula" it's time to stop. I call that "comic book revisionist history"

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

^
Do you even know what your talking about? Or are you fakertothecore? lol

 

[TruerToTheCore]

My knowledge of the character is well-known

 

[TruerToTheCore]

My knowledge of the character is well-known

 

[TruerToTheCore]

My knowledge of the character is well-known

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Then how come no one on this whole messageboard knows about it then? huh

 

[Cain]

I am not longer going to fight the windmills. When someone calls the 70s "hardboiled" ,the 80s Batman the "darkest transformation" and Batman based on "Dracula" it's time to stop. I call that "comic book revisionist history"

Regardless of what his knowledge of Batman comics may be he still does have a point. I think Englehart's Batman is the best I would always think that. I was in high school and read the reprints that summer more time that I can count. To me that's how Batman should always be written but that doesn't mean I discount the work of people like O'Neill, Miller, Grant, Moench, Dixon and even Loeb and Morrison. Does that mean there aren't some that aren't better written than Englehart's? nah of course not.

There is a difference between comparisons and preference. I accept things for what they are to me Englehart's Batman is definitive but that doesn't mean I will talk smack to those that prefer otherwise. A lot of people don't get that cause like I said on my sig Batman has become the bandwagon to hop on again.

But then maybe it's just frustration I'm one of those who stuck around with the comics for a while and remained Batman fans when it was unpopular (around 97 - 02). Now it's like everywhere you go people want to talk about Batman lol at the same time that's why it's a timeless character.

It keeps going on cause of reinterpretation there's no staleness and that became the blueprint for DC in general since all the characters went through the same retconning phases. It's just try to present a good story and use characterizations that suit that story it's not about continuity that's Marvel's way. But I digress my point is I don't believe in there being a "true" Batman anymore than I believe in a "true" James Bond, Robin Hood or Conan. I just enjoy what I enjoy for what it is.

 

[ironman29758]

I agree. sure we have different veiws on who batman is and who is the true batman doesn't mean we should disrespect other people's view of batman

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I love you all

 

[CFE]

Since there have been a s**tload of threads being made that are essentially, whether the OPs know it or not, using "TDK" as a means of slamming the pre-"Begins" live action films for no reason whatsoever, I'm bumping this.

CFE

 

[Dr. Acula]

MY BAT OPINION:

burton got people interested in a live action batman again...

i think we can all agree that Joel Schumacher stinks...

nolan redeemed batman's image...

and people may bash the 60's tv series but it had its moments t:

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Since there have been a s**tload of threads being made that are essentially, whether the OPs know it or not, using "TDK" as a means of slamming the pre-"Begins" live action films for no reason whatsoever, I'm bumping this.

CFE

You honestly think your thread will influence Burton bashing in any way? The word for that is "naive".

Plus, I like it. Gives me countless chances to be a ruthless and cruelly sarcastic bastard to dumbasses that don't understand Batman as a 70-year-old franchise.

 

[CFE]

You honestly think your thread will influence Burton bashing in any way? The word for that is "naive".

Umm...

But this is only my feeling, my opinion...there's nothing I can do to sway those that will continue to speak ill of the depictions of Batman that do not appeal to them personally.

It's just my observation that it's a fruitless endeavor that will bring about nothing but unecessary arguement on this board and a vicious cycle of disputing and absurdity that for reasons that escape me we can never seem to abandon in favor of just appreciating the character...period.

Read before you speak.

CFE

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I read, and I saw a guy who thinks too highly of himself. Regardless of your little "disclaimer", it's obvious to anyone that you think you can awe-inspire fans to change their behavior. Or at the very least garner some sort of praise for your "deep" philosophy on Batman.

Wake up call: You aren't a forum messiah. You're just an egotist that needs to get the hell over himself.

 

[CFE]

Ok, so this is what your random PM meant, Prime...

I'm hardly an egotist...

Besides, I've been reading threads in the "Batman: The Brave & The Bold" forum and it DOES seem like people are finally understanding what I've been talking about.

----

 

[Grommers]

I have to disagree.

I feel that Batman has changed, over the years I 100% agree. However, generally change happens to help a larger, grander community. I do agree people shouldn't "****" on Burtons (and others) interpertations and realize they were important staples in the Batman Mythos to help build the character we have today. I do respect the older Batman days, and I understand they were what was thought to bring the most to the character. However do I believe the Adam West show was ever as good as TDK? Hell no. Do I think Adam West is just as important? Hell yes.

I believe the years have been very kind to Batman as opposed to other heroes. As they've really tested the boundaries, and only for the last 10-20 years has the character stayed the same for such a lengthy period of time. To me this, proves that this character is finally getting well...his defined character? Which, I believe the process that was taken is the right one..trying everything out.

I don't think a lot of the people comparing say Batman '89 and Batman Begins, saying Batman begins is better as them "****ting" on Batman '89 or saying that Batman '89 wasn't important. I think most people understand it was important, but things always need improving, and I do believe Batman Begins was an improvement on Batman '89, however Batman '89 was probably more important the Batman Mythos, in the sense it really opened peoples eyes to what this character "could" be.

I don't know if thats maybe the point your trying to get at or not. Although it's nice to see "old school" Batmans' here and there. To return to say the Adam West style series, would hurt the overall Batman community rather than nourish it. Now, this has been proved by the record breaking sales of TDK, that yes the community is increasing with this style of "Batman". I do believe that a Utilitarinist version of Batman is the best one, whether I like it or not, I just happen to like the current version of Batman that has been brought out in the last 20 years.

Batman is ever increasing its community, due to changes yes, and over all improving the character thats there. We've learned from the mistakes of the Adam West series, and have improved the character greatly. It's always okay to make mistakes, but you have to learn from your mistakes. And I think (maybe I'm wrong and am not reading your post the way you meant it) we are moving forward with this character, but I really feel nobody is disrespecting the character by saying "Adam's West movie isnt' as good as TDK." I believe Adams West interpertation was just as important as Christian Bales, and I do believe Christian Bales is just a more defined version of the character that is just an improved version of Adam's West.

I don't know, what you consider as "****ting" on or not, but merely saying they don't like a certain version of Batman doesn't make there opinion any less valuable, or wrong...I believe the community is improving batman, and mistakes are still made along the way. Such as Gotham Knight, which I believe didn't do the character justice, but we learned that..well, that style doesn't work with the character.

Anyways, I don't know what you meant by not "argumentative" or what not, as this is a forum. If you didn't expect arguments maybe you should of made a blog.

 

[lexuality]

Just my honest opinion here as one among many...

I am the newest of n00bs into this fandom.. I remember reading a couple random Batman comics at a friends house when I was 12 or so, but since then I have had no interest in the Bat up until The Dark Knight came out this year.

Even then I only watched it because a friend dragged me, and out of curiousity about Heath Ledger's performance.
I fell headfirst into this whole new world, first becoming obsessed with Heath's Joker and now slowly dipping my feet in to the proper world of a Batman fan.

When I think of all the other variations of Batman that are out there, it makes my head swim. I know NOTHING beyond the Nolanverse. I am probably the very WORST kind of n00b, whose opinion shouldn't ever be listened to because I wasn't there.

But this thread really spoke to me, and made me want to discover more, go back into the past and see what I have been missing.

I'm glad that we have so many different variations of Batman, and that we will continue to have more as the years go by. More fans will keep coming, the legend will be passed on.
Hopefully n00bs become well-informed and dedicated fans, who I'm sure will still be *****ing and whining about which Batman is the best for years to come.

Personally I'm looking forward to it.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

and I do believe Christian Bales is just a more defined version of the character that is just an improved version of Adam's West.

I don't know, what you consider as "****ting" on or not, but merely saying they don't like a certain version of Batman doesn't make there opinion any less valuable, or wrong...I believe the community is improving batman, and mistakes are still made along the way. Such as Gotham Knight, which I believe didn't do the character justice, but we learned that..well, that style doesn't work with the character.

Im gonna disagree with these 2 statements that are in bold. The Batman that Bale played isnt an improved version of the Batman West played. An improvement would be the same styled Batman done better. Bale didnt do this. Bale played a completely different interpretation of the Batman character than what west had played. There was no improvement, just a different interpretaion of the character.

As far as Gotham Knight, there are fans who enjoyed those interpretations of the Batman character. I would hardly call that endeavor a mistake.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Every version of Batman is notable in a historical context. As in, I certainly wouldn't leave B&R, or the racist old serials, or Kelley Jones out of a documented history of Batman, even though I may dislike them. They did happen, and they're worth mentioning, and they may have their fans.

Doesn't mean I have to be one of them. And it doesn't mean that certain versions aren't simply better. Opinions are great, but eventually a consensus is made. No one can take your opinion away from you, but there's no arguing with a consensus.

There's also the fallacy that opinion can justify anything, that quality is always in the eye of the beholder. Not so. There are certain elements that are quantifiable. Some stories are poorly written. Some are poorly drawn. Some are poorly acted. These go beyond opinion; these are technical terms that, while originated in opinion, have a standard to be judged by.

I can say, beyond just an opinion as a Batman fan, that (for instance) The Dark Knight is simply, technically, a better crafted film than Batman & Robin.

Whether someone prefers B&R to TDK is their business, but to say that they are equal simply isn't true.

 

[NickyTea]

It is interesting to chart the history of a character.

There has become a cultural consciousness of who the character is. The aspects of the character that we find the most effective have stuck and survived the years of multiple incarnations. There are surely hundreds of examples of books that show Batman doing very uncharacteristic "non Batman" things.

It's all part of the process of developing a character as rich and enduring as he is.

For some of us, Dark Knight and Batman Begins came at a time when the history needed focusing, and pruning. In my opinion, the greatest aspects of the myth lie therein.