The Superhero Cinematic Civil War of Tomorrow Thread - Part 62

[DarthSkywalker]

When I was a little boy my cousin unaccountably went around telling me and everybody else he created Monster Rancher. He showed everyone pictures of the game and said it was being made according to his instructions. Had me going for a minute until the shamefaced confession came.

Would never let someone live that down.

 

[Lily Adler]

When I was a little boy my cousin unaccountably went around telling me and everybody else he created Monster Rancher. He showed everyone pictures of the game and said it was being made according to his instructions. Had me going for a minute until the shamefaced confession came.

That's taking the "my uncle works for Nintendo" thing to a whole new level.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's taking the "my uncle works for Nintendo" thing to a whole new level.

 

[Lily Adler]

But did he work for Blizzard?

 

[Batgirl0202]

Superman (1978)

Believe it or not, I had only ever seen this undisputed classic once before, and that was many, many years ago. It's part of my digital collection and for some reason I recently developed a compulsion to watch it, so up, up, and away we go...

As tempting as it is to write the umpteenth essay on the brilliance of this seminal CBM, I decided to approach the film as simply as possible: how does it hold up when viewed through a modern lens? If we continue to regard it as a timeless classic, the question answers itself. A notoriously troubled production, the film rights were acquired by the father/son production team of Alexander and Ilya Salkind, who envisioned Superman as a modern update of the swashbuckling serial adventures the elder Salkind knew audiences loved. Pre-production went on for years, during which $6 million was sunk into the project with nothing to show for their efforts. Every major director in Hollywood at the time was considered, with Mario Puzo of The Godfather fame notoriously submitting an unfilmable script that totally misunderstood the essence of the character. Actors as diverse as Dustin Hoffman(!), Robert Redford, and Sylvester Stallone(!!) were all considered as well (the thought of Dustin Hoffman as Supes cracks me up for some reason), with the production still no closer to liftoff. Finally, Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz were brought in as director and rewriter respectively, but there was still one teeny tiny problem: who the hell was gonna actually play Superman??

Enter 24 year old, tall, gangly, devilishly handsome, Juilliard dropout, soap opera ingenue, off-Broadway novice, Katharine Hepburn protege, Christopher Reeve. It was only through the insistence of casting director Lynn Stalmaster that Reeve finally got a screen test, and the rest, as they say, is history.

The film is classically structured, in the sense that we begin with a taste of life on Krypton, continuing through to his upbringing learning "traditional" midwestern values on a farm in the Kansas town of Smallville, to his eventual 'graduation' into big city life as a reporter for the DAILY PLANET. What's fascinating are the contradictions embedded into the character by both his biological (Jor-El) and adoptive (Jonathan) fathers. Jonathan teaches Clark to hide his true nature through fear of discrimination, while Jor-El encourages him to enter the world at large and inspire humanity to reach our untapped potential by becoming the aspirational figure Superman has always been. Conventional wisdom has it that the Kents provided Clark with his moral superiority, but the film explicitly states that Jor-El also spends twelve years in the Fortress of Solitude educating Clark on his moral development. Interesting stuff...

It's been said that, by quite accidentally stumbling upon Reeve, Superman's producers benefited tremendously from some of the most "perfect casting" in the history of film, and who am I to contradict that (it made me smile to read that WB received dozens of angry letters from fans when Reeve's casting was announced, claiming that the only 'true' Superman was George Reeves and they would be boycotting the film out of protest. The more things change...)? As Clark Kent, he comes across as less authentic than genuinely weird: awkward, bumbling, he's utterly convincing as an alien who's been taught his entire life to mimic human behaviour, which is of course exactly what he is. I'm not sure if this was acting ability or deer-caught-in-the-headlights, but I'll give Reeve the benefit of the doubt His performance really takes flight (sorry) though when he finally dons the famous emblem. His Superman radiates decency and nobility, but still retains a slightly off-putting and inscrutable quality, once again befitting a god who resembles a man.

This is why Donner's version of the character succeeds where Snyder's failed: Superman works best as an ideological hero inspiring goodness, kindness, and decency, rather than the city-leveling weapon of mass destruction as depicted in Man of Steel. Reeve's Superman is a mess of contradictions: a being with the power of a god, unknowable, yet he cares about us anyway; a benevolent character who also never loses sight of his own personal self-interest; an object of worship and envy who nevertheless longs to be human so he can get married, settle down, and score a touchdown in the Big Game without fear of exposing his otherness. That's the greatest irony of the Superman character: while little kids everywhere long to be Superman (what is the appeal of superheroes anyway if not empowerment fantasy?), he secretly longs to be us...

And then there was Lois.

When Superman critics talk about "perfect casting", the sentiment generally applies to Margot Kidder as well. Fiery, resourceful, independent, and ever-so-slightly resentful of the new male reporter in her orbit landing the city beat desk, this Lois is very much a woman of the '70's, rather than the "mmmm Superman is the dreamiest man alive meow purr" caricature from the early comics (or so I've read). She initially treats Clark with the detached bemusement that beautiful women often employ to distance themselves from men they have no romantic or sexual interest in, yet slowly comes around to grudgingly respecting his reporting abilities. We first meet her covering a story about a serial killer and then are told about her award-winning exposé on sex and drug abuse in retirement homes. She later asks Superman if he can see her "underwear" upon discovering his x-ray vision, and it made the roommate and I laugh when she asks Superman "how big are you? I mean, how tall?" during their interview. Watching this film made me yearn for more 'family' entertainment that didn't feel compelled to constantly patronize viewers into the middle of the road...

I wondered while watching this what it must have been like being eight years old and seeing this for the first time; I can imagine it being close to a religious experience, appropriate as Superman has always been our secular bridge between pop art and religion. The film isn't perfect and does require some suspension of disbelief: if Superman can fly fast enough to reverse time, why would a couple puny man-made rockets cause him much trouble? However, Superman still represents the best of what a CBM has to offer, full of heart and majesty, while demonstrating that compassion and kindness are what true heroism ought to be about. In short, Donner did his job.

Unfortunately, legend has it that conflicts between Donner and the Salkinds resulted in the 75% of Superman II that had already been shot being basically re-worked by replacement director Richard Lester. That, however, is a story for another day

 

[kguillou]

You know, I’ve always been kind of unclear as to the writing and production of Superman I and II. My understanding is that Mario Puzo wrote a mammoth sized screenplay and basically intended Superman 1 and 2 to be one giant 4-hour movie or something? Is that correct? And then it was only later they decided to split the movie into two?

I’m trying imagine the act structure in a story like that. Lol

 

[Spider-Fan]

You know, I’ve always been kind of unclear as to the writing and production of Superman I and II. My understanding is that Mario Puzo wrote a mammoth sized screenplay and basically intended Superman 1 and 2 to be one giant 4-hour movie or something? Is that correct? And then it was only later they decided to split the movie into two?

I’m trying imagine the act structure in a story like that. Lol

To save production costs, they opted to make Superman and Superman II at same time. So they were written together and Superman II was roughly 75% shot. But the production was over budget and the Salkinds were mad. So at some point, they opted to change Superman's ending to that being when he turns back time, take a break, and they would find a new ending for Superman II later. The Salkinds used that opportunity to fire Donner, which led to Lester needing to reshoot enough of Superman II so he could be the credited director

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The Bar for Superhero Films Has Been Raised, Sony Pictures CEO Says: 'You Can't Make a Bad Movie'

Sony Pictures CEO Ravi Ahuja says the bar for superhero movies to be successful has been raised, noting "you can't make a bad movie."

www.thewrap.com

“There was a period of time where anything superhero was almost guaranteed to do well,” Ahuja said on Thursday at the Bank of America conference. “I think [the bar] for superhero movies, it was relatively low. In the mid-2010s pretty much all of them would do incredible business, but now even superhero movies have to have a degree of originality. They have to add something different. They have to have emotional connection. They have to be cultural events that can be marketed that way.”

Ahuja expressed optimism that the next Tom Holland “Spider-Man” movie, “Brand New Day,” would do well, but noted that “you can’t make a bad movie.”

Ticket buying is way down from 2019

The Numbers - Movie Market Summary 1995 to 2025

Overall movie market summary for each year 1995 to 2025

www.the-numbers.com

Younger audiences and China and some other countries have largely moved on from superhero movies.

 

[Babillygunn]

It’s because Pokémon was after your time youngin.

And the bolded is making me chuckle for some reason lol.

I loved Pokémon. I loved it solely because I could get under my nephew’s skin by asking him if he was looking at his “Pokey-Man” cards. My wife would giggle at the double entendre and he’d just get pissed that I was mispronouncing it.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I loved Pokémon. I loved it solely because I could get under my nephew’s skin by asking him if he was looking at his “Pokey-Man” cards. My wife would giggle at the double entendre and he’d just get pissed that I was mispronouncing it.

So you two are the fun Uncle and Auntie. Got it.

Maaan, I empathize with your nephew. Back in the day, Pokémon cards were serious business. In 4th grade during recess, if you had a deck of those cards and someone put one of them to the light and it was see through (which meant it was fake), your ass would get DRAGGED by your classmates.

Good times.

 

[Babillygunn]

So you two are the fun Uncle and Auntie. Got it.

Maaan, I empathize with your nephew. Back in the day, Pokémon cards were serious business. In 4th grade during recess, if you had a deck of those cards and someone put one of them to the light and it was see through (which meant it was fake), your ass would get DRAGGED by your classmates.

Good times.

Our kids did Pokémon for a while. But one evening while our best friends were over, their oldest son swindled my youngest son out of a good card with a trade and then invoked “no trade backs” when my older son intervened to point out that his little brother was being swindled. Our son came to us in tears over it. My wife’s best friend (the mother of the swindling little con artist) had the gall to look at my 8 year old child and say “the rules always are no trade backs.”

I literally held my wife back from grabbing her by the hair. It was almost


Fast forward 8 years and we don’t speak with those friends anymore.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Our kids did Pokémon for a while. But one evening while our best friends were over, their oldest son swindled my youngest son out of a good card with a trade and then invoked “no trade backs” when my older son intervened to point out that his little brother was being swindled. Our son came to us in tears over it. My wife’s best friend (the mother of the swindling little con artist) had the gall to look at my 8 year old child and say “the rules always are no trade backs.”

I literally held my wife back from grabbing her by the hair. It was almost
View attachment 147055

Fast forward 8 years and we don’t speak with those friends anymore.

I just know you are effective in your field, because I love how you tell a story and how it escalates.

But yeah I don’t blame you guys for cutting those friends off. Swindling your son out of his cards and then no trade backs is no bueno. Love that your wife ain’t afraid to throw hands.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

You know, I’ve always been kind of unclear as to the writing and production of Superman I and II. My understanding is that Mario Puzo wrote a mammoth sized screenplay and basically intended Superman 1 and 2 to be one giant 4-hour movie or something? Is that correct? And then it was only later they decided to split the movie into two?

I’m trying imagine the act structure in a story like that. Lol

The Salkinds did this with the Three Musketeers (made another movie out of unused footage), mostly so they could get two movies out of the actors while only paying them for one. Which the actors had a BIG problem with, and sued over, which is why we got the Salkinds Clause from the Screen Actors Guild.

 

[Babillygunn]

Love that your wife ain’t afraid to throw hands.

My wife is a sweet and gentle lady…until you make one of her babies cry. Then she’s playing the feud.

 

[Drizzle]

So you two are the fun Uncle and Auntie. Got it.

Maaan, I empathize with your nephew. Back in the day, Pokémon cards were serious business. In 4th grade during recess, if you had a deck of those cards and someone put one of them to the light and it was see through (which meant it was fake), your ass would get DRAGGED by your classmates.

Good times.

Pokémon cards got banned at my school. It must have been the spring of '99 once the teachers started getting real sick of it. One recess my friend brought his whole binder full of cards only for it to be confiscated by the lunch monitor, Mr. Williams who snuck up on our table and snatched it away. Mr. Williams then held the binder over his head and loudly bellowed, "Now I'M the Pokémon master!" to the whole cafeteria. It was mortifying, awesome and hilarious all at the same time.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Pokémon cards got banned at my school. It must have been the spring of '99 once the teachers started getting real sick of it. One recess my friend brought his whole binder full of cards only for it to be confiscated by the lunch monitor, Mr. Williams who snuck up on our table and snatched it away. Mr. Williams then held the binder over his head and loudly bellowed, "Now I'M the Pokémon master!" to the whole cafeteria. It was mortifying, awesome and hilarious all at the same time.

LMAO YOOOO.

Nah see, if that was me (but it wouldn't because my parents never allowed me to bring my cards or my Gameboy to school), there would've been a problem with Mr. Williams and myself.

 

[Drizzle]

LMAO YOOOO.

Nah see, if that was me (but it wouldn't because my parents never allowed me to bring my cards or my Gameboy to school), there would've been a problem with Mr. Williams and myself.

View attachment 147060

He got them back at the end of the school day, it's not like he stole his holo cards

 

[Kane52630]

Were you guys into Beyblade?

I went from Pokemon to Digimon to Yugioh and never looked back.

 

[Pennywise]

The Bar for Superhero Films Has Been Raised, Sony Pictures CEO Says: 'You Can't Make a Bad Movie'

Sony Pictures CEO Ravi Ahuja says the bar for superhero movies to be successful has been raised, noting "you can't make a bad movie."

www.thewrap.com

 

[Ninjablade]

I like the thought that before this year, that wasn't already the case, and that the good ones were an accident. Certainly feels that way nowadays

 

[Drizzle]

View attachment 147063

The Bar for Superhero Films Has Been Raised, Sony Pictures CEO Says: 'You Can't Make a Bad Movie'

Sony Pictures CEO Ravi Ahuja says the bar for superhero movies to be successful has been raised, noting "you can't make a bad movie."

www.thewrap.com

The bar ain't that high, my guy. Sony just made some wild decisions regarding live action Spider-Man movies without Spider-Man.

 

[Kane52630]

I mean it's true, just look at Madame Web reaching for the bar:

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I went from Pokemon to Digimon to Yugioh and never looked back.

Now you're gonna have this in my head.



I'm ULTIMATE, I'm CHAMPION, I'm MEGA! NO WAY!

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

And all these bum ass Spideyless Spidey spinoffs are all your faults.

You guys just had to go see a Venom movie that had no Peter in it. And made it a success.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Madame Web’s merit is as an infinite meme generator.