The Dark Knight Rises The New Catwoman Casting Thread

[Crook]

Or maybe Batman just likes Bats and likes capes. Just kidding....if the Nolans go with Catwoman, I they could come up with something clever and efficient, whilst also having a deeper significance....of people are open to it.

Are you not aware of the symbolism cats represent? A simple google search yields you this:

Cats are known for their independence. They are often known as a symbol of meditation, mystery, and wisdom, such as in Good Fortune. Lastly, cats symbolize love. There is a myth that says black cats symbolize bad luck, and are the favorite pets of the witches.

In ancient Egyptian religion cat's were considered a symbol of royalty. They were even the model for many Egyptian gods. They also kept cats around as a means of spiritual protection. In Puritan religion cats symbolized dark and demonic forces and were associated with the devil. Cats are often compared to femininity and womanhood. They are associated with intuition as well. Cats are also known to have the ability to transmute human discomfort or malevolent spiritual energies into a more benign force. As an example: If you pay attention, if you're feeling any great stress in your life you'll notice that your cats (if you have any) will start spending more time with you to help you relieve the discomfort. Likewise, if you notice your cats staring at a wall or tracking something in the room when there obviously isn't anything there, they are probably seeing a spiritual force.

Nine lives

According to a myth in many cultures, cats have nine (or sometimes seven) lives. The myth is attributed to the natural suppleness and swiftness cats exhibit to escape life-threatening situations.[94] Also lending credence to this myth is that falling cats often land on their feet because of an inbuilt automatic twisting reaction and are able to twist their bodies around to land feet first, though they can still be injured or killed by a high fall.[95]

Cat represents guardianship, sensuality and detachment. Cat bestows the talent to quietly observe situations without bias before making decisions, knowing all have a right to understand and judge important events for them when the time is right.
She is the merging of the spiritual and physical; the psychic and sensual.
Cat is symbolic of independence, reincarnation, balance, psychicism, magick and mystery. She represents wisdom. One tribe called owls cats with wings. Self-assured, she’s a strong protector, especially in confrontational situations. The zenith of her power is the night and she’s been called a child of the Moon.

Anyone remotely familiar with Selina can immediately see the similarities here. Not to mention that her occupation is a CAT burglar, the imagery she evokes is already a pun and mocking of that title. This isn't some empty nor random costume choice.

When we said "because she identifies with cats", it's not the same thing as "she likes the color, sky blue, because it's pretty".

 

[KalMart]

Doesn't need to be. That's what stunt doubles are for. Even Bale doesn't do all of his stunts/fight scenes. I'm not really sure where this misconception on this board arose that each actor does every single stunt and fight sequence. Hell, I don't think Matthew Goode threw a single punch in the Watchmen fight.

That said, I am pretty sure she did most of her own stuff in Golden Compass (which I haven't seen, but I do know it included wire-work for flying, and I'm presuming a little fighting). As far as I know, that's the most physical role she's had.

I don't mean her actually doing the flips and flying kicks stuff (which I wouldn't want to see anyway), but does she look like someone athletic and robust enough to do that? For example...nto to bring in the whole black/white thing again....but Rosario Dawson strikes me as being both capable of glamour and physicality...without even knowing if she does all her own stunts or not. Someone like, say, Natalie Portman seems more fragile/delicate. I also don't see someone like Kate Winslet being the action-type, if you will.

Obviously, we don't just want some WWF-chick T&A model or what have you...just that it's tough to get the combination. It's not all about body-type either, but it does come into play. I don't think I'd want someone petitte, but also not too voluptuous...like Johanssen, for example. It's a tough call.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Hmmm... I guess that's up for everyone else's personal opinions... I'd say so, she's got an amazing body. Not necessarily as toned and fit as someone like Rosario Dawson, but I'll let you decide for yourself:

If you want a more "in-depth" look (pardon the pun ) at her body, look up her scenes from The Dreamers, in which she's nude throughout. That movie's five years old, and she's evidently toned up a bit since then, but her build still screams Catwoman to me- very curvy and busty, regardless of muscle.

 

[KalMart]

Are you not aware of the symbolism cats represent? A simple google search yields you this:

Sure, but what does it represent to her, and what about her personality/history does that symbolism reflect? Why that symbolism and not, say, a dove or snake?

Anyone remotely familiar with Selina can immediately see the similarities here. Not to mention that her occupation is a CAT burglar, the imagery she evokes is already a pun and mocking of that title. This isn't some empty nor random costume choice.

So do you think that all moviegoers will have that familiarity going in without presenting it oncreen aside from the end product? We didn't get Joker's history, how he became who he is...but from that narrative..what he wanted and did.... we got to see why he's more than just a criminal in makeup...and you didn't have to be familiar with him to get that from the movie. All I'm asking is if Catwoman can do that too in her own right, whether she's a straight villain or not.

But as I also pointed out, it might be a tougher task in these movies, as her being so self-centered and lone/independent doesn't quite lend itself to the kind of representary major characterizations we've had thus far...having bigger things that they want, etc. So again, is it okay with folks if the Nolans create/add that with this character, perhaps giving the character a bit bigger motivations than just her own enjoyment? I'm all for it, but maybe others feel 'that's not Catwoman'.

When we said "because she identifies with cats", it's not the same thing as "she likes the color, sky blue, because it's pretty".

I assumed it wasn't, but you wouldn't explain how it was more than that when I asked....aside from her 'liking it' or what have you. Now at least we're getting into it more....and you at least seem to agree that it's not simple or face-value. I'm saying that the storyline of the film, and the writers, has to provide that somehow. At least to some extent as if no-one had ever heard of Catwoman, without getting into too much history, etc.

 

[KalMart]

Hmmm... I guess that's up for everyone else's personal opinions... I'd say so, she's got an amazing body. Not necessarily as toned and fit as someone like Rosario Dawson, but I'll let you decide for yourself:

If you want a more "in-depth" look (pardon the pun ) at her body, look up her scenes from The Dreamers, in which she's nude throughout. That movie's five years old, and she's evidently toned up a bit since then, but her build still screams Catwoman to me- very curvy and busty, regardless of muscle.

I've already seen her in a few films, and for me, she's more glamour...and quite alluring...but a little shy on the athleticism part. I hate to put it this way, as it's unintentionally sexist...but...does she 'run like a girl'? I know...she might not have to do the actual running, but y'know what I mean. People can exhibit their athleticism in pretty simple/normal movements, as well. Their walk/gate... I assume she should move and walk differently in the cat-suit than she would in an evening gown...and that's not just because of the shoes.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

You could argue that, but you could also argue that Malin Akerman couldn't have thrown a spin-kick to save her life before Watchmen. By shooting time, she became arguably the best looking female combatant I've ever seen on film (and I'm not talking about her beauty). This kind of stuff can be trained, and Nolan's made it apparent he wants to make sure that the proper training is taken to ensure this kind of grace needed for the films and their characters.

 

[KalMart]

You could argue that, but you could also argue that Malin Akerman couldn't have thrown a spin-kick to save her life before Watchmen. By shooting time, she became arguably the best looking female combatant I've ever seen on film (and I'm not talking about her beauty). This kind of stuff can be trained, and Nolan's made it apparent he wants to make sure that the proper training is taken to ensure this kind of grace needed for the films and their characters.

Yeah, maybe someone like Green is more athletic than what her roles thus far have allowed her to be. However, I did see Akerman's talents as a physical comedienne in that Stiller movie long before Watchmen, and I do feel that is connected/lends itself to athleticism onscreen....and have also seen that trend with the actors/actresses I've worked with. Some take to training better than others depending on their natural abilities. But again, in terms of the glamourous socialite, Green has got that vibe. What if she was from the ghettos or shadier/run-down parts of town....who cold be a good choice for that?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Yeah, maybe someone like Green is more athletic than what her roles thus far have allowed her to be. However, I did see Akerman's talents as a physical comedienne in that Stiller movie long before Watchmen, and I do feel that is connected/lends itself to
athleticism onscreen. Some take to training better than others depending on their natural abilities. But again, in terms of the glamourous socialite, Green has got that vibe. What if she was from the ghettos or shadier/run-down parts of town....who cold be a good choice for that?

I agree, definitely. Malin's most definitely got those physical gifts, while Eva has yet to show any true sign as to whether or not she does.

As far as a shadier kind of character... I don't know, I'd have to go with your earlier suggestion and give it to Rosario Dawson- not because she's part black, so nobody jump on me about that. I'd have to hand that one to her because of her immaculate portrayal of Gail in Sin City. That role all but screams a shady, more exaggerated and violent version of Catwoman in its own right, and Rosario played it to perfection.

 

[flickchick85]

Why is she resembling anything...and why a cat? t: Heh...

I like the idea of her wanting to steal from the mob and humiliate them....perhaps for things they did to her and her community in the past... and being inspired by Batman's theatrics. But also, part of being 'cat-like' might be her philosophy of only looking out for 'number one'...instead of higher cause since people will only turn on you....like they did with Batman. I'm just wondering if there can be more to it than just them fighting/flirting like that, though. Is she a key or obstacle in Batman redeeming his place with the people of Gotham, and clearing his name with the police? Will the Gotham citizens be put to another morality test like in TDK...with dire consequences either way...and what would Catwoman have to do with it, etc?

Maybe a bigger villain wants to use her to lure Batman out so that he can be eliminated once and for all.

Well, I've taken a crack at a story for #3 in the past, but it was long and involved and I'm just feeling too lazy rehash it at the moment. But here's my take on some of your questions and Catwoman's backstory for this series:

I always liked the idea of Selina starting off on the streets of Gotham as a kid (prostitution? Not explicitly said, but a possibility, sure). To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughCotillardcough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc. She becomes a quite successful thief there, accumulating substantial wealth. She uses her overseas black market connections to set up multiple dummy businesses and grow herself a "corporation," so that money from everything she steals and sells gets evenly distributed through those various businesses, and the original source of the money becomes virtually untraceable. Once she's exhausted most of her big fish in France and accumulated enough wealth, she returns to Gotham as a French socialite (where she had learned the language and perfected a fake accent aka Cotillard's natural accent) with philanthropic aims for the poor of Gotham, and dedicates her time to various charity events, etc. Of course, she also turns her thieving sights to the rich and corrupt (mob associated) socialites of Gotham, intent to hit them in their wallets where it hurts, and take them down in her own way. This is BACKSTORY, not what we would be SHOWN in the film, just alluded to in various scenes.

As she builds her reputation as the beloved socialite queen of the East End, her East End rival is Roman Sionis, who's pretty much a rich terror to the community with his heavy mob ties and murderous ways as Black Mask. So her ultimate goal over the course of the movie will be to take him down. In the business side of things Roman Sionis will of course be waging his own war against Wayne Enterprises (including kidnapping his employees), is defeated and "ruined" by Batman over the course of the film and eventually teams up with the other main villain of the film (whoever that is, but his/her crusade throughout the story will be against Batman on behalf of the citizens of Gotham) to take Batman down. And THAT'S where the stories cross paths, and Catwoman, Black Mask, Villain #2, and Batman are all involved in the climactic showdown.

But that's how Catwoman could be involved in the plot, but up 'till that point, she'd mainly be there for character development for Bruce. Thematically, it would be about Batman being more of an outsider than ever, and subsequently being tempted to cross his ethical lines (eg, The Law) by Catwoman and embrace the darker side of his mission ("screw the police, do what's necessary, and savor the thrill"). She would have very convincing arguments, with the corruption-riddled police force constantly trying to kill him at this point, while getting no love from the citizens of Gotham for maintaining his "code." In other words, she's the devil on his shoulder who's really not "evil" at all, and therefore, that much more convincing. It's a philosophical war between the two of them. And of course, you'd have the love story between Selina and Bruce who are clearly two kindred spirits. In my hypothetical story, Selina would initially have no interest in the playboy billionaire, but finds out Bruce is Batman fairly early on (through some telling scar from one of their fights or something) and spends the rest of the movie forcing Bruce to drop the playboy facade and be himself around her, which he'd gradually embrace.

So she'd be fully intwined in the story and relatively close to all the events in the A-plot the whole time, but she wouldn't fully collide with them 'till the final act. And I like to think in that final act she'd be sacrificing her Big Ultimate Score to save Batman/Bruce from the plot that Black Mask/Villain #2 would have set up for him. And of course, Bruce being Bruce, he would find out who she was and refuse to let her go, insisting that if she really felt anything for him, she would understand why he needs her to pay for her crimes. And then he could save her charities from ruin when she goes to prison and launch his new public direction as a philanthropist.

*phew* And that was the short version, lol.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughGreencough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc.

Fixed. Still accurate, too.

Funny how that worked out.

 

[KalMart]

Well, I've taken a crack at a story for #3 in the past, but it was long and involved and I'm just feeling too lazy rehash it at the moment. But here's my take on some of your questions and Catwoman's backstory for this series:

I always liked the idea of Selina starting off on the streets of Gotham as a kid (prostitution? Not explicitly said, but a possibility, sure). To escape from her hellish existence, she hops on a boat or plane ala Bruce in BB and spends several years overseas (France, perhaps? *coughCotillardcough*), where she survives by stealing and hones her skills, knowledge, etc. She becomes a quite successful thief there, accumulating substantial wealth. She uses her overseas black market connections to set up multiple dummy businesses and grow herself a "corporation," so that money from everything she steals and sells gets evenly distributed through those various businesses, and the original source of the money becomes virtually untraceable. Once she's exhausted most of her big fish in France and accumulated enough wealth, she returns to Gotham as a French socialite (where she had learned the language and perfected a fake accent aka Cotillard's natural accent) with philanthropic aims for the poor of Gotham, and dedicates her time to various charity events, etc. Of course, she also turns her thieving sights to the rich and corrupt (mob associated) socialites of Gotham, intent to hit them in their wallets where it hurts, and take them down in her own way. This is BACKSTORY, not what we would be SHOWN in the film, just alluded to in various scenes.

As she builds her reputation as the beloved socialite queen of the East End, her East End rival is Roman Sionis, who's pretty much a rich terror to the community with his heavy mob ties and murderous ways as Black Mask. So her ultimate goal over the course of the movie will be to take him down. In the business side of things Roman Sionis will of course be waging his own war against Wayne Enterprises (including kidnapping his employees), is defeated and "ruined" by Batman over the course of the film and eventually teams up with the other main villain of the film (whoever that is, but his/her crusade throughout the story will be against Batman on behalf of the citizens of Gotham) to take Batman down. And THAT'S where the stories cross paths, and Catwoman, Black Mask, Villain #2, and Batman are all involved in the climactic showdown.

But that's how Catwoman could be involved in the plot, but up 'till that point, she'd mainly be there for character development for Bruce. Thematically, it would be about Batman being more of an outsider than ever, and subsequently being tempted to cross his ethical lines (eg, The Law) by Catwoman and embrace the darker side of his mission ("screw the police, do what's necessary, and savor the thrill"). She would have very convincing arguments, with the corruption-riddled police force constantly trying to kill him at this point, while getting no love from the citizens of Gotham for maintaining his "code." In other words, she's the devil on his shoulder who's really not "evil" at all, and therefore, that much more convincing. It's a philosophical war between the two of them. And of course, you'd have the love story between Selina and Bruce who are clearly two kindred spirits. In my hypothetical story, Selina would initially have no interest in the playboy billionaire, but finds out Bruce is Batman fairly early on (through some telling scar from one of their fights or something) and spends the rest of the movie forcing Bruce to drop the playboy facade and be himself around her, which he'd gradually embrace.

So she'd be fully intwined in the story and relatively close to all the events in the A-plot the whole time, but she wouldn't fully collide with them 'till the final act. And I like to think in that final act she'd be sacrificing her Big Ultimate Score to save Batman/Bruce from the plot that Black Mask/Villain #2 would have set up for him. And of course, Bruce being Bruce, he would find out who she was and refuse to let her go, insisting that if she really felt anything for him, she would understand why he needs her to pay for her crimes. And then he could save her charities from ruin when she goes to prison and launch his new public direction as a philanthropist.

*phew* And that was the short version, lol.

Some good stuff there. Yeah, I don't think the prostitution thing should be there so definitely......implied as part of the world, perhaps....if they'd go with that angle.

 

[flickchick85]

Fixed. Still accurate, too.

Funny how that worked out.

Except one thing: Eva Green doesn't speak English with a French accent. Not that it matters, lol. But she learned in a British school, and it shows. But yes, she could certainly work, too.

Though I find Cotillard to be easily the stronger actress.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I've only heard minor pieces of dialogue in English from Cotillard (from the Public Enemies trailer), I don't remember how it sounds though. Either way, there are coaches for accents.

 

[KalMart]

Or they could dub it like they did for Tyler in LOTR.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

True. I just re-watched Marion's part in the Public Enemies trailer, and from the little speaking she has in those clips, I'm not convinced about her American accent. I heard some awkward phonetics in there.

 

[KalMart]

A little accent could be okay.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I'm not ultimately bothered by it, but everyone around here rides Marion's ass like she's omnipotent on the world of film or something. I like her and think she's a great actress, but there are others who are just as good, if not better for this role.

 

[Laderlappen]

The character she plays in Public Enemies is half-french.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Good little tidbit to know. I feel stupid now.

 

[flickchick85]

True. I just re-watched Marion's part in the Public Enemies trailer, and from the little speaking she has in those clips, I'm not convinced about her American accent. I heard some awkward phonetics in there.

I'm not gonna argue there. As I recall, she only got a few weeks notice on the accent in Public Enemies, so she had to work on her accent throughout the film. I do know that all the dialogue in the trailer except for the last line are all from one scene, and it was one of the very first scenes they shot. So I think we'll find her accent is stronger in some parts of the movie than others, depending on when it was shot/how long she had worked on it. I'm sure Michael Mann wasn't worried about it since her character in the film is half-French anyway. It was also implied in the script that you could tell, but her character was ashamed of her heritage (she grew up on a Native American reservation, and apparently there was a whole group of French/Native Americans who were kind of looked down upon), so she was attempting to hide it (and Dillinger would tell her not to). I think the accent in her last line in the trailer was pretty good though. Anyway, with Catwoman, if they went that route, she could use her natural accent as Selina, and then learn Catwoman's lines (which would no doubt be far fewer) with an American accent.

And fyi, here's what her natural French accent sounded like as of last year, pre-Oscars and Public Enemies:
[YT]7TbmlIwEZyk[/YT]

ETA: Laderlappen beat me to it, but don't feel stupid, Cunning! I didn't know 'till I read the screenplay.t:

 

[KalMart]

The character she plays in Public Enemies is half-french.

Yeah, but she sounds 1/3rd at best.


heh-heh....

 

[Cunning Stunts]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff ).

 

[KalMart]

I'm not gonna argue there. As I recall, she only got a few weeks notice on the accent in Public Enemies, so she had to work on her accent throughout the film. I do know that all the dialogue in the trailer except for the last line are all from one scene, and it was one of the very first scenes they shot. So I think we'll find her accent is stronger in some parts of the movie than others, depending on when it was shot/how long she had worked on it. I'm sure Michael Mann wasn't worried about it since her character in the film is half-French anyway. It was also implied in the script that you could tell, but her character was ashamed of her heritage (she grew up on a Native American reservation, and apparently there was a whole group of French/Native Americans who were kind of looked down upon), so she was attempting to hide it (and Dillinger would tell her not to). I think the accent in her last line in the trailer was pretty good though. Anyway, with Catwoman, if they went that route, she could use her natural accent as Selina, and then learn Catwoman's lines (which would no doubt be far fewer) with an American accent.

And fyi, here's what her natural French accent sounded like as of last year, pre-Oscars and Public Enemies:
[YT]7TbmlIwEZyk[/YT]

I like her....sign her up.

 

[flickchick85]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff ).

Yeah, I get what you mean, but I think the simple response is, post-Oscar, people have been getting familiar with her work. I mean, I hadn't heard of her until I saw La Vie En Rose, but her performance in that was so amazing that it made me want to seek out her prior work (some of which also got her acclaim/awards in France). And her prior performances were not only great, but hugely diverse, which is what sets her apart from most of the other good actresses out there, like Eva Green, for me. And I think it was when I was watching A Very Long Engagement (in which she plays a vengeful serial-killing prostitute) when it just hit me all of a sudden that she would be a fantastic Catwoman. Add to that the buzz she's building with her post-Oscar choices (Public Enemies, Nine, Inception, The Rivals - all films I'd by psyched for with or without her involvement), and it just seems like her star is about to sky rocket, and the next great choice for her to make would be a big sophisticated blockbuster like this one. So I think that might be where its coming from.

 

[Laderlappen]

You know, I could deal with her being Catwoman just based on her beauty and charm... She's so fun to watch for some reason.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against her at all, I just don't understand where this sudden upheaval of some "huge fanbase" has com from. She's great, but to be honest, I hadn't heard of her until she was brought up here, and to date, I've met one person who knows her name (and I'm in the acting business- you'd think we'd keep better tabs on this stuff ).

She is an incredible actress. In La Vie En Rose(her oscar winning role) she is in the same league as Meryl Streep, Ingrid Bergman, Bette Davis, and all the great legends. She is not famous for obvious reasons. but I find it strange that only one of your acting friends is familiar with her. Except for her talent, she is also incredibly charming, likeable, and attractive woman.