The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

[Kevin Smith]

The best Batman movies are always the ones with the Joker. Begins is fantastic however.

 

[Bigjxxx]

Amen! Kevin Smith.

 

[Anno_Domini]

rope fall that kills a man that doesn't kill Bruce

Hrm?

 

[BlueLightning]

There is that word again... "realism"

 

[Kevin Smith]

Hrm?

A guy before Bruce makes the climb with the rope and falls and dies from the snap, presumably, to illustrate just how dangerous the climb out is. Bruce survives the same rope snap twice with his recovering back.

 

[BlueLightning]

He doesn't die, there is no implication of that.

 

[Kevin Smith]

He doesn't die, there is no implication of that.

Do we see him again? He just sort of hangs there....looked pretty lifeless to me.

 

[BlueLightning]

He doesn't die. He is still moving. That's the whole point of the rope, that is a safety measure.

 

[Kevin Smith]

He doesn't die. He is still moving. That's the whole point of the rope, that is a safety measure.

 

[Anno_Domini]

A guy before Bruce makes the climb with the rope and falls and dies from the snap, presumably, to illustrate just how dangerous the climb out is. Bruce survives the same rope snap twice with his recovering back.

You're only assuming the guy dies when he just hangs there....as we've seen Bruce, just hang there, when he falls until they help him down.

[YT]KXxw-zXRqOs[/YT]

It happens both tries when Bruce tries to climb, but I can't find the first climb anywhere on YouTube.

 

[shauner111]

I thought it was okay. Kind of threw the whole "realism" thing out the window though. Bruce survives a nuclear bomb with 5 seconds to go (auto pilot or not, it ain't happenin'), rope fall that kills a man that doesn't kill Bruce, even though his back was broken a few weeks ago and is still healing, the prison "chiropractor" punching Bruce's back and fixing it, Bane leaves Gotham to make a round the world trip to drop Bruce in a well...BLAKEMAN BEGINS...Blake knows Wayne is Batman by a "look in his eye", yeeeeeeeet...Gordon still doesn't. And he's had 3 movies to figure it out come on now, movie. No fair to give it to this completely new character, who's had 5 minutes of screen time and not Gordon. And Batman is in it twice, 10 min at the beginning, 15 at the end. In fact, most the Batman footage was all used in the trailer there's so little of it. Catwoman was great though.

But yeah. Could have been much better, easily the weakest in the "trilogy". Not the direction I'd have gone...redeeming Riddler would have been great. Or even Penguin for that matter. But Sean Connery talking out of the Darth Vader mask, err "Bane" wasn't too bad I guess. Actually, I think it's a great movie, just not a great Batman movie. It's the Nolan equivalent of Batman Returns, where Tim Burton got all up his own ass and away from the source material. It's a good example of what happens when a director thinks he is greater than the characters, Nolan decided it'd be better to give us 3 hours of socio-political commentary than a damn good Batman movie. Bruce quitting over Rachel....only in the Nolan U.

Aaand last but not least. NO reference to the Joker. Not even a picture. The hell. I wonder if Ledger had lived if they'd have brought him back or not...I'd have loved to have seen that. I'm sure most would agree.

1) He was obviously not in The Bat with 5 seconds left. It's an editing trick so the audience thinks he's in there still. It jumps in time. Every time they go back to Blakes face and then back to the ocean, The Bat is further out. Logic says that Batman jumped out waaaay before the bomb went off.

Others have commented on the rope part, so ill just say that i agree with them.

2) Watch it again. Blake knows it because he cared to find out and he could tell that fake smile because he's an orphan himself and can relate to putting on a mask throughout his whole life in public places. Gordon doesn't have that backround for one thing and secondly, he says he never cared who he was. Meaning, Gordon could have probably found out easily but made a point not to because it didn't matter to him. This happens in the comics with Gordon and it's happened in the comics with Tim Drake to an extent where he figures things out. I think recently they did the same thing with Dick Graysons origins.

3) If you think Bruce quit because of Rachel, then you REALLY didn't pay attention to the movie what so ever.

 

[Kevin Smith]

You're only assuming the guy dies when he just hangs there....as we've seen Bruce, just hang there, when he falls until they help him down.

[YT]KXxw-zXRqOs[/YT]

It happens both tries when Bruce tries to climb, but I can't find the first climb anywhere on YouTube.

Okay. But what about Bruce's healing back?

 

[Kevin Smith]

1) He was obviously not in The Bat with 5 seconds left. It's an editing trick so the audience thinks he's in there still. It jumps in time. Every time they go back to Blakes face and then back to the ocean, The Bat is further out. Logic says that Batman jumped out waaaay before the bomb went off.

Others have commented on the rope part, so ill just say that i agree with them.

2) Watch it again. Blake knows it because he cared to find out and he could tell that fake smile because he's an orphan himself and can relate to putting on a mask throughout his whole life in public places. Gordon doesn't have that backround for one thing and secondly, he says he never cared who he was. Meaning, Gordon could have probably found out easily but made a point not to because it didn't matter to him. This happens in the comics with Gordon and it's happened in the comics with Tim Drake to an extent where he figures things out. I think recently they did the same thing with Dick Graysons origins.

3) If you think Bruce quit because of Rachel, then you REALLY didn't pay attention to the movie what so ever.

I'll give you the part about Gordon, only for his apparent intended apathy toward it. He still seemed pretty surprised though ("Bruce-?? "). And the whole "knows cuz he, too, is an orphan" thing is still stupid. But there is no way in hell that Batman survives a nuclear bomb that covers a 6 mile radius, with 5 seconds to go merely by jumping out. He's got 6 miles to go up, down, out, whatever direction before he is safe. Unless maybe the bat pla- sorry, "The Bat" has one of those Indiana Jones refrigerators on board that he tucked into and ejected out of, he isn't alive. He'd have had to have hopped out and landed somewhere in the city, but we saw him in the plane rising up past the buildings out the window behind him.

 

[BlueLightning]

I'll give you the part about Gordon, only for his apparent intended apathy toward it. He still seemed pretty surprised though ("Bruce-?? "). And the whole "knows cuz he, too, is an orphan" thing is still stupid.

The reasoning for this is pretty solid though, Jonah Nolan has stated that the reason that Blake is able to deduce Bruce's identity is because children often pick up things that grown ups can't, making a throwback to another Nolan film "The Prestige"

"It is a little hard to imagine Robin working in that universe, so the idea had to be limited to that gag at the end. But Joe’s character is very important to the story. In any movie you need a character looking at proceedings the way you see them, and Joe’s character is that character for this film. One of my favorite scenes is when John tells Bruce how he knew he was Batman. It’s like that scene in The Prestige where the little kid sees through Christian’s trick. Little kids, they don’t have any illusions, they just see the truth of the situation. I feel there’s a kind of spiritual connection between the two movies there." Jonah Nolan
Source

But there is no way in hell that Batman survives a nuclear bomb that covers a 6 mile radius, with 5 seconds to go merely by jumping out. He's got 6 miles to go up, down, out, whatever direction before he is safe. Unless maybe the bat pla- sorry, "The Bat" has one of those Indiana Jones refrigerators on board that he tucked into and ejected out of, he isn't alive. He'd have had to have hopped out and landed somewhere in the city, but we saw him in the plane rising up past the buildings out the window behind him.

Spoiler

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[Kevin Smith]

The reasoning for this is pretty solid though, Jonah Nolan has stated that the reason that Blake is able to deduce Bruce's identity is because children often pick up things that grown ups can't, making a throwback to another Nolan film "The Prestige"

Spoiler

t:

Ha! Wtf. Lol...wouldn't people have seen him eject though?

And I don't know, did Blake ever even see Bruce as Batman (before Bruce quit)? I gotta go watch this again....it's just....it's SO long. And it feels it. Lol. Unlike TDK which I can watch through and through.

 

[BlueLightning]

I don't think he needed to see Batman. The point that is made is that the children at the orphanage made stories about Bruce Wayne "Billionaire Orphan", legends of him, implying that they toyed with the idea of Bruce being Batman at one point. You know in the vein of, "Wouldn't it be cool if this guy was Batman?". But Blake recognized this as the truth the moment he saw himself behind Bruce's facade.

 

[Snow Queen]

Bruce Wayne went to his orphanage one day and Blake picked up on his act. I'm not entirely sold on how Blake figured it out either but I can believe he saw through Bruce's act then started to try and connect dots that didn't exist as a kid and then by the time he visited Wayne Manor they had become the truth for him. A little convenient but, hey, we do have a vigilante who wasn't killed within a few weeks.

 

[Spider-Vader]

I loved TDKR, I don't see anything wrong with it. People were expecting another story similar to TDK (which IS a better movie & what a Batman movie should be), but it's not the story that Nolan wanted to tell.

I loved the story that Nolan did tell, it was a fantastic end to the series. & I loved the movie's Bane, I hope he becomes as iconic as TDK's Joker.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Okay. But what about Bruce's healing back?

Only a vertebrae was protruding out that someone popped back in and he had to stay in a single position for who knows how long until he was able to walk again(I THINK it had to be at least a month). It's not great medical science, but neither was a man that should be in extreme pain being able to walk around out of a hospital bed for about half a day's time.

I probably get flack for always bringing up previous mistakes made from Nolan during the TDK trilogy, but it's fact that if Nolan messed up one way, then he's not going to become correct when it comes to another situation in the next film.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The reasoning for this is pretty solid though, Jonah Nolan has stated that the reason that Blake is able to deduce Bruce's identity is because children often pick up things that grown ups can't, making a throwback to another Nolan film "The Prestige"

"It is a little hard to imagine Robin working in that universe, so the idea had to be limited to that gag at the end. But Joe’s character is very important to the story. In any movie you need a character looking at proceedings the way you see them, and Joe’s character is that character for this film. One of my favorite scenes is when John tells Bruce how he knew he was Batman. It’s like that scene in The Prestige where the little kid sees through Christian’s trick. Little kids, they don’t have any illusions, they just see the truth of the situation. I feel there’s a kind of spiritual connection between the two movies there." Jonah Nolan
Source

Doesn't really make sense. Bruce Wayne isn't a "magic trick." It sounds clever but when you think about it long its a non-explanation... the analogy breaks down.

 

[BlueLightning]

The facade of Bruce Wayne is the trick. However, I see why it's one of those things that bugs some people. But I kind of like it.

 

[RustyCage]

The facade of Bruce Wayne is the trick. However, I see why it's one of those things that bugs some people. But I kind of like it.

I like it too, but he wasn't basing it on very much.

Not that it's terribly hard to 2 + 2 who Batman is if you were really trying to figure it out. The coincidence of his return from "death" and Batman's arrival being the major sore thumb.

 

[shauner111]

I loved TDKR, I don't see anything wrong with it. People were expecting another story similar to TDK (which IS a better movie & what a Batman movie should be), but it's not the story that Nolan wanted to tell.

I loved the story that Nolan did tell, it was a fantastic end to the series. & I loved the movie's Bane, I hope he becomes as iconic as TDK's Joker.

I figured they would go with Riddler or Strange for the dark knight sequel. With Riddler, i guess an Arkham Asylum type of storyline would have fit. And with Strange, i assumed it would be the Prey storyline. The latter was what i wanted early on and i imagine most people who disliked the movie thought Nolan would go in one of those directions too. But i loved what we got.

It's fair to say that if Heath had lived he would have had a small role in Arkham and the movie would take place a year later or so. Nolan would have probably teased the younger Dick Grayson version of Robin at the end, setting up the next director to carry the franchise forward. I truly believe this would have happened.

This is what im getting out of the haters. They envisioned something in their minds beforehand so they set themselves up for major dissapointment. It's their own bloody faults, not the movies. Nolan didnt owe the fans anything.

If those people got what they wanted, or if Nolan went in another direction with Heath still alive, everybody would get a more comic book-esque franchise with BB/TDK as the basis of Batmans early years. That sounds fantastic so i understand wanting it but people perhaps get too attached to an idea in their heads.

Im reading a lot of these "letdown" posts and a good chunk of them feel like the poster wanted something VERY specific leading into the movie.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I don't think he needed to see Batman. The point that is made is that the children at the orphanage made stories about Bruce Wayne "Billionaire Orphan", legends of him, implying that they toyed with the idea of Bruce being Batman at one point. You know in the vein of, "Wouldn't it be cool if this guy was Batman?". But Blake recognized this as the truth the moment he saw himself behind Bruce's facade.

Yeah...ya know that's pretty ******ed sounding, right? Even for a movie about a guy dressed up as a bat. "Realism"

Maybe it's me, but that's just too damn thin for a franchise that analyzes and over analyzes everything about Batman.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Only a vertebrae was protruding out that someone popped back in and he had to stay in a single position for who knows how long until he was able to walk again(I THINK it had to be at least a month). It's not great medical science, but neither was a man that should be in extreme pain being able to walk around out of a hospital bed for about half a day's time.

I probably get flack for always bringing up previous mistakes made from Nolan during the TDK trilogy, but it's fact that if Nolan messed up one way, then he's not going to become correct when it comes to another situation in the next film.

Yeah, but this is kind of a big ****in deal. It was like no research was put into how and how long it takes for a broken back to heal. A quick google search could have done that. TDKR just threw out all credibility as far as I'm concerned. The nuke scene is still ridiculous.

I buy this before I buy the ending to TDKR:

Spoiler

However, the best Batman to dispose of a bomb is still this guy:

Spoiler

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu_lw3cRz3k[/YT]

t: