The Dark Knight Rises - letdown or not?

[Anno_Domini]

Yeah, but this is kind of a big ****in deal. It was like no research was put into how and how long it takes for a broken back to heal. A quick google search could have done that. TDKR just threw out all credibility as far as I'm concerned. The nuke scene is still ridiculous.

Again, I would say the "throwing out all credibility" was when Two-Face is thrown out of the window of how an actual person would be with so much pain and would probably not even last less than a hour if they didn't take medication or ask for skin grafts. But then again, people will explain Two-Face in the comics, and then I can say...didn't Bruce Wayne take only six months to heal in Knightfall? And Bane left him a paraplegic. Bruce is not in TDKR.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Hmm.

You know, and I'm not knocking on the "reality grounded" takes, because I find them enjoyable as long as they are still recognizable as their comic book counterparts (and by "comic book counterparts" I don't by any means mean silly or hokey), but the more "realistic" they try to make them, the less "realistic" they become if you know what I mean. It's funny.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Indeed.

I simply take it for what they are. As Nolan is trying to go for a realistic, relatable take of his Batman, he had to take certain turns with this trilogy when he took care of villains like Two-Face or the whole "Breaking of the Bat" plot.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Yeah. The more I think about it Two Face is a tough one to do.

 

[BlueLightning]

Yeah...ya know that's pretty ******ed sounding, right? Even for a movie about a guy dressed up as a bat. "Realism"

Maybe it's me, but that's just too damn thin for a franchise that analyzes and over analyzes everything about Batman.

What can I say? There is something about the concept of a child that figures out things that adults can't that is fascinating. You could find it thin, but personally, I find it a very rich.

As for the rest of the film, you can deconstruct everything to strip the object from the message: "An invincible guy who can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes", "A rich man who dresses up like Dracula to punch the mentally ill", "A kid who gets bitten by a radioactive spider and gains his abilities". After all, this is comic books. Nolan's approach was never aimed to strict realism: microwave water vaporizers, reconstruction of bullets to find finger prints, an atomic bomb... (suddenly that last one somehow seems more plausible).

The point is that Nolan's world is something akin to augmented reality, it's plausible and reminds us of the real thing to touch important themes: fear, chaos, pain, mortality, heroism, sacrifice. Maybe in some places its rough around the edges, but there is little that I don't like from the trilogy.

 

[Human Torch]

Smith has a point on how little Batman there is.I watched just the Batman scenes yesterday,and it took less than a half hour.It didn't really seem that noticable originally.But I think the re-play value goes down a bit because of it.

 

[Snow Queen]

Smith has a point on how little Batman there is.I watched just the Batman scenes yesterday,and it took less than a half hour.It didn't really seem that noticable originally.But I think the re-play value goes down a bit because of it.

Batman's in there a lot. I think you're referring to the cape and cowl, not Batman as a character.

 

[The Guard]

]What can I say? There is something about the concept of a child that figures out things that adults can't that is fascinating. You could find it thin, but personally, I find it a very rich.

There's nothing wrong with the concept. Its the execution that was lacking.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Smith has a point on how little Batman there is.I watched just the Batman scenes yesterday,and it took less than a half hour.It didn't really seem that noticable originally.But I think the re-play value goes down a bit because of it.

Depends on what kind of movie someone wants to see. The story itself called for little Batman to be shown and that's what I appreciate the most about TDKR.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Not a letdown, I was let down by a few little things though. I wanted to see Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul's traditional comic appearances in this film, it was the perfect opportunity for that. And I wish John Blake would've been Dick Grayson

 

[Kevin Smith]

What can I say? There is something about the concept of a child that figures out things that adults can't that is fascinating. You could find it thin, but personally, I find it a very rich.

The point is that Nolan's world is something akin to augmented reality, it's plausible and reminds us of the real thing to touch important themes: fear, chaos, pain, mortality, heroism, sacrifice. Maybe in some places its rough around the edges, but there is little that I don't like from the trilogy.

It's when it starts to violate its own ********, its own set of rules that it loses credibility and stops holding water as a movie for me. TDKR did that. I'd maybe be willing to accept the whole Blakeman Begins knows Bruce is Batman by a "look in his eye" if they at least called him Dick Grayson, but that whole scene is laughable to me. And Bruce is just like "okay...oh wow so you figured it out. Because I looked sad. Hmm. Well okay then let's work together". He just gives it to him.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Depends on what kind of movie someone wants to see. The story itself called for little Batman to be shown and that's what I appreciate the most about TDKR.

That's the thing I hated the most about it. I go to a Batman movie to see Batman, Bruce dressed up in a bat suit doing cool **** (not at the expense of story, but I highly doubt if they advertised a Batman movie as "Bruce sips cocktails in a mansion for 2 hours" people would show up to see it). This was 3 hours of Nolan's stance on politics wrapped in "A Tale of Two Cities" with the cast of Inception and Prestige with a special appearance by Batman. If you got up to go piss or grab popcorn at any part Batman (BATMAN) showed up, I feel bad for you, because by the time you got back to your seat you missed over half of his appearances in the whole movie.

The other thing is, due to how little Batman is actually in it (and plenty of other reasons, namely that it drags and is hard to watch) the rewatchability factor of it is very low. It is for me anyway. Begins, TDK, and the 89 Batman I can pop in any time and be consistently entertained. Hell, I'll even back up a scene or two I liked it so much just to watch it again with those. But TDKR I want to skip some parts. It's a drag to watch...I don't feel like I've "escaped" and lost track of time like with the other films, I'm looking at my watch going "God, how long is this damn thing?" and the only "escape" I'm thinking of is from the movie itself. Seriously, I was so unengaged by some of it I was sitting there asking myself questions like "so Bane can't take the mask off at all or else he is in extreme pain...okay...so how the hell does he eat and drink?", things I shouldn't be asking myself about the movie. Certainly not while watching it at least. The movie just violates its own ******** in so many ways. And it's almost always because of a departure from the comics. Catwoman was the best thing. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate it, I was just a little disappointed.

And seriously. Why couldn't they have brought Ra's back? That would have been epic. Showing him in a dream....what a cop out. And waste, IMO.

 

[RustyCage]

Batman's in there a lot. I think you're referring to the cape and cowl, not Batman as a character.

In many ways, Bruce Wayne was written more like Batman than Batman was in Rises. The way he appears to Selina, the obsession, etc.

Batman in full suit was written more like an afterthought by comparison. There was no meaningful dialogue or personality (apart from some initial rage at being unable to hurt Bane), it was mostly business talk.

Bruce Wayne was Batman in this film. Outside of the typical sense.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Smith has a point on how little Batman there is.I watched just the Batman scenes yesterday,and it took less than a half hour.It didn't really seem that noticable originally.But I think the re-play value goes down a bit because of it.

That's exactly it.

 

[Anno_Domini]

That's the thing I hated the most about it. I go to a Batman movie to see Batman

After Burton's/Schumacher's films, I would say I would have always wanted to go see a Batman film because of Batman, but I've been amazed since Batman Begins that I became more intrigued on Bruce Wayne and not Batman and Nolan even gave Wayne a story besides just being this facade to the real face of Batman too.

In many ways, Bruce Wayne was written more like Batman than Batman was in Rises. The way he appears to Selina, the obsession, etc.

Batman in full suit was written more like an afterthought by comparison. There was no meaningful dialogue or personality (apart from some initial rage at being unable to hurt Bane), it was mostly business talk.

Bruce Wayne was Batman in this film. Outside of the typical sense.

Never really thought of it that way, but I wouldn't call Batman an afterthought, only that Wayne was the main focus of this film as Nolan wanted to make Bruce realize he needed to move on.

 

[Kevin Smith]

After Burton's/Schumacher's films, I would say I would have always wanted to go see a Batman film because of Batman, but I've been amazed since Batman Begins that I became more intrigued on Bruce Wayne and not Batman and Nolan even gave Wayne a story besides just being this facade to the real face of Batman too.

I did enjoy Bale's performance. I do believe he is the best Bruce Wayne to date. And yes, with enough of the other Batman films themselves out there, seeing Bruce Wayne in the spotlight more is a little forgivable. But as someone pointed out, he's still Batman, just stripped of his costume here. It's not like he's doing the playboy facade the whole movie, he's doing things Batman would be doing. So I digress a bit.

 

[shauner111]

That's the thing I hated the most about it. I go to a Batman movie to see Batman, Bruce dressed up in a bat suit doing cool **** (not at the expense of story, but I highly doubt if they advertised a Batman movie as "Bruce sips cocktails in a mansion for 2 hours" people would show up to see it). This was 3 hours of Nolan's stance on politics wrapped in "A Tale of Two Cities" with the cast of Inception and Prestige with a special appearance by Batman. If you got up to go piss or grab popcorn at any part Batman (BATMAN) showed up, I feel bad for you, because by the time you got back to your seat you missed over half of his appearances in the whole movie.

The other thing is, due to how little Batman is actually in it (and plenty of other reasons, namely that it drags and is hard to watch) the rewatchability factor of it is very low. It is for me anyway. Begins, TDK, and the 89 Batman I can pop in any time and be consistently entertained. Hell, I'll even back up a scene or two I liked it so much just to watch it again with those. But TDKR I want to skip some parts. It's a drag to watch...I don't feel like I've "escaped" and lost track of time like with the other films, I'm looking at my watch going "God, how long is this damn thing?" and the only "escape" I'm thinking of is from the movie itself. Seriously, I was so unengaged by some of it I was sitting there asking myself questions like "so Bane can't take the mask off at all or else he is in extreme pain...okay...so how the hell does he eat and drink?", things I shouldn't be asking myself about the movie. Certainly not while watching it at least. The movie just violates its own ******** in so many ways. And it's almost always because of a departure from the comics. Catwoman was the best thing. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate it, I was just a little disappointed.

And seriously. Why couldn't they have brought Ra's back? That would have been epic. Showing him in a dream....what a cop out. And waste, IMO.

Interesting perspective but not one that i can relate to. I found the film more compelling and wished it was closer to 3 hours actually. I've seen plenty of movies that drag and this didn't because of the action sequences (for me at least).

Ra's died in Batman Begins, end of story. You can't bring back a character who died in an explosion unless it's a more fantastical story that's being told from the beginning. The Nolan movies were never that. In Burtons world or the reboot im sure it would be a no-brainer if Ras was in a scene like that. Bringing him back to life or saying that he escaped in the nick of time would be reasonable.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I did enjoy Bale's performance. I do believe he is the best Bruce Wayne to date. And yes, with enough of the other Batman films themselves out there, seeing Bruce Wayne in the spotlight more is a little forgivable. But as someone pointed out, he's still Batman, just stripped of his costume here. It's not like he's doing the playboy facade the whole movie, he's doing things Batman would be doing. So I digress a bit.

That's just part of the charm of TDKR, imo, as Bruce, while having "retired", he can't let go of this monster and is chomping his teeth just waiting for Batman to be needed again as he isn't fearful of dying or anything when he returns as Batman.

 

[BlueLightning]

I'd maybe be willing to accept the whole Blakeman Begins knows Bruce is Batman by a "look in his eye" if they at least called him Dick Grayson, but that whole scene is laughable to me. And Bruce is just like "okay...oh wow so you figured it out. Because I looked sad. Hmm. Well okay then let's work together". He just gives it to him.

You better stick to your guns there, because I doubt a change of name would make this fact different for you, me or anyone else. It is what it is, an amalgamation of the concept of Robin that fits the themes of the film. If you don't like the concept or the execution is fine. But speaking for myself, I freaking loved it.

This was 3 hours of Nolan's stance on politics wrapped in "A Tale of Two Cities" with the cast of Inception and Prestige with a special appearance by Batman. If you got up to go piss or grab popcorn at any part Batman (BATMAN) showed up, I feel bad for you, because by the time you got back to your seat you missed over half of his appearances in the whole movie.

I fail to see the political message of the film. This aren't political films, nor Rises, or its predecessors. The themes are others, but I see could some people could believe this.

As for the cinematic experience, that doesn't bother me. I learned to watch my movies prepared, so no bathroom or going for popcorn for me. If I miss something of any movie, specially one I look forward to see, I would lose my mind. t:

The other thing is, due to how little Batman is actually in it (and plenty of other reasons, namely that it drags and is hard to watch) the rewatchability factor of it is very low. It is for me anyway. Begins, TDK, and the 89 Batman I can pop in any time and be consistently entertained. Hell, I'll even back up a scene or two I liked it so much just to watch it again with those. But TDKR I want to skip some parts. It's a drag to watch...I don't feel like I've "escaped" and lost track of time like with the other films, I'm looking at my watch going "God, how long is this damn thing?" and the only "escape" I'm thinking of is from the movie itself. Seriously, I was so unengaged by some of it I was sitting there asking myself questions like "so Bane can't take the mask off at all or else he is in extreme pain...okay...so how the hell does he eat and drink?", things I shouldn't be asking myself about the movie. Certainly not while watching it at least. The movie just violates its own ******** in so many ways. And it's almost always because of a departure from the comics. Catwoman was the best thing. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate it, I was just a little disappointed.

And seriously. Why couldn't they have brought Ra's back? That would have been epic. Showing him in a dream....what a cop out. And waste, IMO.

If you didn't like the movie it's fine. It is only natural that you find yourself for something different. But there are others who find the film to be a truly rich and entertaining experience. Just different perspectives. As a side note, I enjoy asking questions from my movies, but it isn't really hard to imagine how Bane eats and drinks.

If you could elaborate a little in how this movie violates its own rules it would be great.

And seriously, bringing Ra's back would be a real rule violation.

 

[Human Torch]

At that point,I wish they just went for it.Bring Ra's back.

I guess what I find most disappointing was after all the talk of Batman's "One Rule" in TDK,he still manages to kill the truck driver and Talia.

And,yeah,I'd rather it not end with Bruce passing it on to "Blakeman", but whatever.

In the end I still say I wasn't "letdown",since there was a lot I liked,but I think it's clearly the weakest of the three.

 

[Snow Queen]

In many ways, Bruce Wayne was written more like Batman than Batman was in Rises. The way he appears to Selina, the obsession, etc.

Batman in full suit was written more like an afterthought by comparison. There was no meaningful dialogue or personality (apart from some initial rage at being unable to hurt Bane), it was mostly business talk.

Bruce Wayne was Batman in this film. Outside of the typical sense.

Exactly (except I disagree about Batman being an afterthought). People seem to ignore Batman moments as Bruce like:

-The tracking device in the pearls
-Analyzing the crime scene of the safe
-Tracking the identity of the thief (Selina, of course)
-Tracking Selina to her home

And others throughout the movie.

 

[BatLobster]

This might be oblivious of me, but the first time I saw the movie I didn't even notice that Batman wasn't in costume all that much. Didn't really occur to me because the movie had my full attention for 2 hours and 45 minutes. And from the first shot of Bruce walking towards Selina with the cane, I was fully invested in Bruce's story.

I always said that the first hour of Batman Begins was easily my favorite part of the movie, so in this series I've never been one to fret too much about how much time Bruce clocks in as Batman. The stuff in the pit is probably my favorite part of TDKR, which is no surprise considering it's kind of the counterpart to Begins' first hour.

And more than any of the other films, when Batman appeared on screen he really felt larger than life. I don't know if it was the way Bale filled the suit this time, how Wally shot him, Hans' music, or just the story...but he truly felt like the LEGEND he is.

 

[RustyCage]

Yeah, I think it isn't about how much time we see Batman as it is about crafting a story that makes us interested in what happens to Batman.

Just as importantly, it's about making Batman's appearances meaningful and impactful.

I would enjoy seeing longer stretches of Batman (it would definitely set the new film apart), but it would have to be supported by the above.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I guess what I find most disappointing was after all the talk of Batman's "One Rule" in TDK,he still manages to kill the truck driver and Talia.

Batman didn't kill the driver. He stood firm on the idea of only shooting at the road and only shards of glass killed the driver. If a missile from the Bat ever did hit the driver, it would have blown up that entire area of the truck and include the passenger(Talia).

 

[The Guard]

Riiiiight.