The NEW OFFICIAL Green Arrow Thread!

[chris moore]

To be fair he was dead a couple years and only came back because Hal Jordan as The Spectre went back in time, took the tiniest amount of DNA off Superman's cape that had remained on there since the explosion that killed Ollie, and created a duplicate body instilled with the memories only up until a time when everything was good in Ollies life. Ollie's soul however, remained in Heaven as Ollie was happy there and only let Hal send his body back.

Its a convoluted means of coming back, but it was a really good story

 

[TheCorpulent1]

His soul eventually did go back to the new body, though. Don't forget that little detail.

 

[hippie_hunter]

To be fair he was dead a couple years and only came back because Hal Jordan as The Spectre went back in time, took the tiniest amount of DNA off Superman's cape that had remained on there since the explosion that killed Ollie, and created a duplicate body instilled with the memories only up until a time when everything was good in Ollies life. Ollie's soul however, remained in Heaven as Ollie was happy there and only let Hal send his body back.

Its a convoluted means of coming back, but it was a really good story

Hal did it as Parallax before he sacrificed himself to reignite the Sun.

I don't think that the Spectre has the ability or even the understanding to do such a thing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The Spectre is one of those characters who has whatever powers his current writer says he has, really.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The Spectre is one of those characters who has whatever powers his current writer says he has, really.

Personally, I see the Spectre as an entity that doesn't understand the true value of life. He has a simple mission and that is one of pursuing God's vengeance and delivering punishment to the wicked.

Even with someone with a strong will like Hal Jordan as a host, I think that the Spectre would just be unable to comprehend bringing someone back to life, even if he had the ability to do so (and I would say that he does considering that he is supposed to be one of the most powerful entities in the DCU). Especially bringing back a person who is as flawed as Oliver Queen who pretty much violated several of God's commandments (infidelity, stealing, does not observe the Sabbath, takes the Lord's name in vain, lies, failed to honor his parents, and covets) along with abanding Roy when he was addicted to heroin, abanding Connor Hawke as an infant along with his mother, attempting to allow gay marriage, etc.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've never really gotten the impression that the Spectre is as shackled to the dogma of Christianity as all that. While Cris has been tied to him, he's just gone about punishing those who've committed things that I think would universally be recognized as truly heinous crimes--rape, torture, murder, etc. Besides, by your definition, the Spectre doesn't understand redemption either, yet Hal used his willpower to reshape it into a force for redemption while he was tied to it. The host certainly seems to be able to use the Spectre's power in ways the Spectre itself might not have imagined or comprehended.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I've never really gotten the impression that the Spectre is as shackled to the dogma of Christianity as all that. While Cris has been tied to him, he's just gone about punishing those who've committed things that I think would universally be recognized as truly heinous crimes--rape, torture, murder, etc. Besides, by your definition, the Spectre doesn't understand redemption either, yet Hal used his willpower to reshape it into a force for redemption while he was tied to it. The host certainly seems to be able to use the Spectre's power in ways the Spectre itself might not have imagined or comprehended.

But Hal Jordan is a Green Lantern, one of the greatest at that. He has a much greater amount of willpower than the typical host to the Spectre such as Jim Corrigan and Crispus Allen. I would say enough to turn the Spectre's mission from that of vengeance to that of redemption. But once Hal left the Spectre, he went right back to his original mission of vengeance.

However, even with that amount of willpower, I just don't see the Spectre developing such an appreciation for life that he would bring someone back. And even if he did bring someone back, it would be a pure and virtuous person, not a person like Oliver Queen who has broken almost all of the Ten Commandments and various other sleezy acts. Even if you're a fan of Oliver Queen such as myself, it's undeniable that the guy is a dukeebag.

The way I see it, if Hal were the Spectre in attempting to raise Ollie back from the dead, the Spectre would be all "What the **** are you doing? What has this guy done to deserve coming back to life? He's only going to squander it once more. Besides he's in Heaven which is more than what he deserves."

Also, I personally consider the Spectre to be shackled to Judeo-Christian-Islamic dogma considering that he is a tool of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know, maybe I don't understand the host/Spectre relationship as well as I thought, but other than Cris, it seemed like the Spectre's power was at the host's disposal for whatever he damn well pleased. If Hal wanted to use the Spectre's power to bring Ollie back, I don't think the Spectre would be able to stop him. It only seems to be having this big power struggle and eventually dominating the host with Cris, and it seems like it's largely because Cris is too terrified of the Spectre's power and still wracked with guilt over killing his own son that he's basically stopped fighting for control in the first place.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't know, maybe I don't understand the host/Spectre relationship as well as I thought, but other than Cris, it seemed like the Spectre's power was at the host's disposal for whatever he damn well pleased. If Hal wanted to use the Spectre's power to bring Ollie back, I don't think the Spectre would be able to stop him. It only seems to be having this big power struggle and eventually dominating the host with Cris, and it seems like it's largely because Cris is too terrified of the Spectre's power and still wracked with guilt over killing his own son that he's basically stopped fighting for control in the first place.

But why would the Host be able to do what he pleased? The whole purpose of the Spectre is to be the Wrath of God and deliver vengeance to the wicked. He has a specific mission that must be carried out.

I take it as the Host is there to give the Spectre some stability and direction. With Day of Vengeance, without a Host, the Spectre was directionless by killing people who committed petty crimes and was easily seduced by Eclipso. With a Host, the Spectre is able to focus on those who truly deserve God's punishment and prevent the wrong influences getting a hold of him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm just going on what I've read. Hal seemed pretty in control of the Spectre's power outside of a few incidents, as I recall. Corrigan and the Spectre seemed to be completely in sync most of the time, or the Spectre was just a non-entity and Corrigan was totally in control.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm just going on what I've read. Hal seemed pretty in control of the Spectre's power outside of a few incidents, as I recall. Corrigan and the Spectre seemed to be completely in sync most of the time, or the Spectre was just a non-entity and Corrigan was totally in control.

They constantly changed how Corrigan and the Spectre worked to the point where it is sorta confusing.

And I would consider Hal to be the exception due to his willpower. He is the only Host to change the Spectre's mission while all others have been focused on God's vengeance. The exception is never the norm.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The exception counts for a lot when it's one of three and the mechanics of another of those three is, by your own admission, confusing. So that makes the Spectre a character who's 2/3rds exception, ergo there really is no norm. Like I said at the beginning, writers tend to just write the Spectre however they want--probably because his past portrayals are so inconsistent, which in turn makes his current portrayals just as inconsistent.

 

[chris moore]

Any thoughts on the last issue? Anyone still reading GA? Still really liking it myself, though I'd rather this Galahad didn't stick around too long. I don't really want a little troupe hanging with Ollie. To be honest I'm surprised there aren't more people living in the forest, or at least exploring it. And this whole 'heal the sick' thing its got going on (that is going to need some serious explaining how Galahad knew about it, and that streams/ponds do it) seems like it'd be key in rejuvenating the city, or at least the hordes of people at the red cross camp we saw.

Hopefully it'll be established that the forest can't be taken advantage of, and that continual encroachments will backfire. That it might be a sentient aspect of the white entity makes it possible it needs a protector as its not a place to exploit, but one to be protected as a hub of a further reaching influence. Therefore it could be testing Ollie and building him up as a man.

I'm liking it anyway, though I'd like to see more of Ollie's new hideout (just because we always like to see the layout of the new Avengers mansion, or the latest refurb of the batcave etc. I always liked those little specials, or bonus pages that had details of the "all new, all exciting base"

 

[Karelia]

Bumping this thread...

Anyone have a clue when the Green Arrow (Brightest Day) comes out on HC/TPB? I heard awhile back their was a relaunch for the character, trying to figure out where to start.

 

[chris moore]

I thought this thread got merged with the NEW one for the new series. The new one is exactly getting a lot of traffic either, but....

 

[WompuM]

Karelia, it's way too early to tell when it will come out. I'm sure in a few months there will be a flood of Brightest Day trades.

If you want a good jump on point, I suggest reading:
Final Night
Green Arrow: Quiver

Unfortunately Final Night is incredibly difficult to find. There really isn't a great jump on point for GA I'm sorry to say. The editorial on the series the last few years has been way below par and it has gone in several different directions quite quickly. He got married. He got unmarried. He lives in a forest. He lives in a pineapple under the sea. Who can keep track?

 

[chris moore]

Preview up: J'onn is back

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/112/1123982p1.html

 

[chris moore]

Though I'd say that this latest direction could be the right one for GA. I was fine with him getting married, and about time really. But the time they spent as a crime fighting married couple lasted about three issues before they brought back Mia, had them chatting with Lieutenant whatsisname, then Connor. Stripping him down to the basics and making him more of a mystery and less of a "can pretty much walk down the street in the middle of the day in public and knock out bad guys as he goes".

Preview up: J'onn is back

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/112/1123982p1.html

 

[WompuM]

I don't understand. We already saw this weeks ago in Brightest Day. When are they going to realize this Countdown tie-in nonsense does. not. work.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But now it's expanded and we get to see Ollie's side!

Yeah, I don't know. It's dumb.

 

[Karelia]

I actually ordered Green Arrow: Year One. I've heard some good things about it, so I figured I'd give it a shot. (Also got Green Arrow: Big Game. Don't really know much about this one, except he purposes to Black Canary in it, I think.)

 

[chris moore]

The only DC comic I read is GA, so from my perspective I hadn't seen squat of J'onn's return or appearance in the forest. I know just about what's going on in the greater DCU as a whole, but too many specifics. Therefore for me it was more about brief reconnections with old friends and seeing who has and hasn't forgiven Ollie for what he felt he had to do.

Loving it, but as an archer myself it bugs me sometimes how often artists show the arrow sitting on the wrong side of the damn bow. Same thing constantly over in Hawkeye and Mockingbird.

 

[GlasgowBat]

This issue, for me, only really began developing once J'onn had left, which makes it all the more frustrating that it was something we've already seen in Brightest Day. We could, and should, have gotten more development of the later part of the issue.

Shame. But still, enjoyed it once it got going, and the retread didn't last that long.

 

[Karelia]

After reading some early pages in this thread, I didn't realize how many people don't like Ollie...

BTW, Is "Green Arrow: Year One" the definitive origin story for GA? Is it canon? Just curious.

 

[chris moore]

I think it has been adopted as Canon. Not to knock the 40's, but the yearne more developed story and smarter reasoning for a lot of things is by far and away the best version of his origin