The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[kainedamo]

That'd have to be one accurate pistol.

 

[Matt]

That'd have to be one accurate pistol.

They exisit. It would be more about the marksman at any rate.

 

[Marx]

Obama 'shifts' rhetoric on affirmative action
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080810/pl_politico/12421

 

[Matt]

NOT A FLIP FLOP!

 

[Marx]

NOT A FLIP FLOP!

Yes...yes...I know. A "shift in thinking" isn't the same as a flip-flop.

 

[Addendum]

Because over the course of human history, no one has ever changed their mind

 

[The Senator]

Because over the course of human history, no one has ever changed their mind

No, never.

Every single politician is suppose to keep the same stance on every issue, no matter what. That's why I hate Robert Byrd with a passion. I would have no problem if he remained a member of the KKK, but the fact that he flip-flopped on hating black people and he's gone as far as to apologize for his past bigotry pisses me off so much there is no way I can support him. He is a disgrace to the political system, and so is anyone else who flip flops.

 

[Marx]

No, never.

Every single politician is suppose to keep the same stance on every issue, no matter what. That's why I hate Robert Byrd with a passion. I would have no problem if he remained a member of the KKK, but the fact that he flip-flopped on hating black people pisses me off so much there is no way I can support him. He is a disgrace to the political system, and so is anyone else who flip flops.

I have never said that I expect politicians to keep the same stance on every single issue, no matter what.





But one once and while would be nice.

 

[jaguarr]

Good God I hate this "flip flop" rhetoric Rove introduced into the political lexicon. It makes it sound like being unreasonably stuck in your thinking and never, ever adjusting your opinions on issues based on new information and changes in circumstances is an admirable trait. We've had eight years of a President who does exactly that and it's a gleaming example of just how idiotic it is to have that attitude. That otherwise sane, logical people buy into that idea of the "flip flop" as a negative is astounding to me.

jag

 

[BlackLantern]

or if a public figure decides to 'change their mind' or 'flip flop'....they had better be ready with some concrete reasons why their position is suddenly changing....

 

[Marx]

or if a public figure decides to 'change their mind' or 'flip flop'....they had better be ready with some concrete reasons why their position is suddenly changing....

You don't believe that if someone changes their position on (capital punishment or abortion, for example) that they shouldn't provide some kind of explanation as to why?

 

[The Senator]

You don't believe that if someone changes their position on (capital punishment or abortion, for example) that they shouldn't provide some kind of explanation as to why?

As long as they're changing it from pro-death penalty to anti-death penalty, and "pro-life" to pro-choice, then I don't need an explanation from them. They've seen the light

 

[BlackLantern]

You don't believe that if someone changes their position on (capital punishment or abortion, for example) that they shouldn't provide some kind of explanation as to why?

I believe they absolutely should......

 

[Marx]

I believe they absolutely should......

My apologies BL, I misread your comment. I thought you were implying that changing stances shouldn't require an explanation.

 

[BlackLantern]

that's fine.....if one day you rail against homosexuality and then the next day you're all about embracing a bull dyke who's dry-walling a house and all about accepting every American and all that....I expect an explanation

 

[Marx]

As long as they're changing it from pro-death penalty to anti-death penalty, and "pro-life" to pro-choice, then I don't need an explanation from them. They've seen the light

 

[Addendum]

I have no problem with people changing their minds, or their posts

 

[jaguarr]

that's fine.....if one day you rail against homosexuality and then the next day you're all about embracing a bull dyke who's dry-walling a house and all about accepting every American and all that....I expect an explanation

Mmmm....instead, how about we make it a group of hot lipstick lesbian contractors redoing my bathroom but getting horribly, horribly distracted with one another while they are working. Of course, they're wearing denim cut-off shorty shorts and t-shirts with no bras when of course one of the pipes bursts momentarily, soaking them all thoroughly and....ahem....yeah.....let's make it that instead.

jag

 

[BlackLantern]

Mmmm....instead, how about we make it a group of hot lipstick lesbian contractors redoing my bathroom but getting horribly, horribly distracted with one another while they are working. Of course, they're wearing denim cut-off shorty shorts and t-shirts with no bras when of course one of the pipes bursts momentarily, soaking them all thoroughly and....ahem....yeah.....let's make it that instead.

jag

sure jag....that works

 

[Überlibran]

Can someone point out to me where Obama's flip-flop here? I see it as an adjustment of affirmative action, not saying that it should be abolished. At the very least this is a personal statement about his kids, and not making any kind of policy decisions in general. And I'm sorry, this story is from Politico, a very right-leaning website. Of course they made his personal statement about his kids morph into his stance on what should happen with affirmative action.

 

[Überlibran]

Good God I hate this "flip flop" rhetoric Rove introduced into the political lexicon. It makes it sound like being unreasonably stuck in your thinking and never, ever adjusting your opinions on issues based on new information and changes in circumstances is an admirable trait. We've had eight years of a President who does exactly that and it's a gleaming example of just how idiotic it is to have that attitude. That otherwise sane, logical people buy into that idea of the "flip flop" as a negative is astounding to me.

jag

IAWTC

 

[Kelly]

I have never said that I expect politicians to keep the same stance on every single issue, no matter what.





But one once and while would be nice.

I don't look at the "change" in stance, I look at the "timing" of the "change" in stance.

 

[Matt]

I don't look at the "change" in stance, I look at the "timing" of the "change" in stance.

Exactly! Nail meet head. This is what posters like Jag are smart enough to get but seem to be ignoring. This isn't like with Kerry where Bush and Rove were using votes from 20 years ago against him. Hell, this isn't even like Romney where his policies evolved over the course of his eight year tenure as governor based on the circumstances his state was facing. This is a very very outspoken man, saying something one day, and then completely turning around and changing the next day, simply for the sake of winning an election. This is not evolution of policy while governing. This is evolution of platform while campaign pandering. There is a huge difference.

 

[Marx]

Exactly! Nail meet head. This is what posters like Jag are smart enough to get but seem to be ignoring. This isn't like with Kerry where Bush and Rove were using votes from 20 years ago against him. Hell, this isn't even like Romney where his policies evolved over the course of his eight year tenure as governor based on the circumstances his state was facing. This is a very very outspoken man, saying something one day, and then completely turning around and changing the next day, simply for the sake of winning an election. This is not evolution of policy while governing. This is evolution of platform while campaign pandering. There is a huge difference.

It all comes down to a matter of timing. I don't think anyone can deny that. If they change their stances, more than likely it is because they know that it will help them in the polls. When their numbers begin slipping because of certain stances no longer meshing with the voters, they change them.

It's quite obvious.

 

[jaguarr]

Exactly! Nail meet head. This is what posters like Jag are smart enough to get but seem to be ignoring. This isn't like with Kerry where Bush and Rove were using votes from 20 years ago against him. Hell, this isn't even like Romney where his policies evolved over the course of his eight year tenure as governor based on the circumstances his state was facing. This is a very very outspoken man, saying something one day, and then completely turning around and changing the next day, simply for the sake of winning an election. This is not evolution of policy while governing. This is evolution of platform while campaign pandering. There is a huge difference.

Just because I don't state it explicitly doesn't automatically mean it's something I disregard or ignore, Matthew. Don't make assumptions about me. Thanks.

jag