The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[Lightning Strykez!]

Not really.

Yes, really. Why? Because my opinion is the only one that counts when I'm down with OPP (Other People's Posts).

The analogy is flawed. Byrd did not change his stances from week to week in order to be more electable. Hell, if anything, when Byrd renounced the Klan, it would've made him less electable based on his electorate. I would not claim Obama flip flopped if he renounced a vote or belief he has 40 years ago as Byrd did. Obama on the other hand is changing his positions from week to week in order to pander. There is a difference between changing policy while governing for the sake of what is best for the people you govern and changing policy while campaigning for the sake of pandering to the electorate. Obama is doing the latter and THAT is why it is flip-flopping.

Please. That is utter bull-crap and you know it.

Obama renounced his entire church membership of 20 years when he realized that the messages his former paster was preaching was innappropriate--especially the ones he's made recently.

Yet, that wasn't enough for you.

 

[Matt]

Yes, really. Why? Because my opinion is the only one that counts when I'm down with OPP (Other People's Posts).




Please. That is utter bull-crap and you know it.

Obama renounced his entire church membership of 20 years when he realized that the messages his former paster was preaching was innappropriate--especially the ones he's made recently.

Yet, that wasn't enough for you.

No, that is utter bullcrap. He renounced his church membership when it became damaging to him politically. Do you really buy for a second Obama went to this church for 20 years and didn't know what Wright was saying? I should hope not being as Obama admitted to knowing what he was saying. So unlike Byrd, he was not apologizing for something he did when he was young (nearly 60 years ago) and since quit doing. He was apologizing for something he did up until the day he got caught (associating with Wright, going to his church, having him on his campaign staff, etc). So he was fine with these inappropriate sermons, until they became damaging to him politically. If you don't see how that paints him in a bit of a negative light, then you are being willfully blind. I wouldn't hold it against him if he went to the church 20 years ago, and quit going after a year or so because of how inappropriate Wright was. That was not the case. And don't try to say that this is a new trend for Wright, we have videos from as far back as ten years ago with similar sermons and testimonials dating back as far as when Wright started at the church.

But thats not even the topic at hand. This is simple policy discussion. Obama is saying one thing on policies one week, then changing the next. So, at best he is a very very indecisive man who can change his beliefs practically over night. At worst he either lied in the primaries or is lying now. Either way, its certainly not the type of man I want to be president of these United States.

 

[BlackLantern]

Yea..if Obama didn't know or didn't hear what was being said over the course of 20 years...that either makes him deaf or ******ed....and I don't want a ****** running this country...do any of you??

 

[Matt]

Yea..if Obama didn't know or didn't hear what was being said over the course of 20 years...that either makes him deaf or ******ed....and I don't want a ****** running this country...do any of you??

(couldn't resist )

 

[Varient]

Ah yes.
Take an insensitive canidate over one WILLING TO CHANGE.

Gotcha.
(sneer)

 

[BlackLantern]

This might be the first election, since I have turned 18, that I am not voting in because I don't believe in either candidate...

 

[Matt]

Ah yes.
Take an insensitive canidate over one WILLING TO CHANGE.

Gotcha.
(sneer)

Real change does not come about by saying anything it takes to get elected. That is not changing, that is lying.

 

[Kelly]

Yes, really. Why? Because my opinion is the only one that counts when I'm down with OPP (Other People's Posts).




Please. That is utter bull-crap and you know it.

Obama renounced his entire church membership of 20 years when he realized that the messages his former paster was preaching was innappropriate--especially the ones he's made recently.

Yet, that wasn't enough for you.

I do believe that some of Obama's changes have been from a sincere change of policy....but as far as the Church fiasco....sorry LS, but I think he waited....waaaaaaay too long before renouncing that situation. Was it because of his election aspirations....I don't know....probably......but he did wait too long IMO.

 

[Varient]

Real change does not come about by saying anything it takes to get elected. That is not changing, that is lying.

If it were true - it would be a sticking point, but the guy has not flipped 180 out on ANYTHING.

Everything I've read has him moderating his original stance.

No drilling @ all - to drilling off shore only for example.

Nah,... McCain gives me shivers because he says things that with a little thought wouldn't be said,... about things that if flipped on him, (The equiv) he would be more than a little offended.

Obama STILL doesn't have my vote,... but McCain makes it damn easy not to vote for a repub in the white house.

V.

 

[kainedamo]

Why does Matt never talk about McCain's association with G. Gordon Liddy?

 

[Matt]

Why does Matt never talk about McCain's association with G. Gordon Liddy?

Because we are discussing Barack Obama, not John McCain. If you would like to discuss G. Gordon Liddy, go to the John McCain thread and bring it up.

 

[kainedamo]

The reason I ask, I notice the whole Reverand Wright thing is STILL being brought up. And I have brought up Liddy in the McCain thread. It gets conveniently ignored. I feel that, when someone brings up Obama's "dodgy connections" I should say, what about Liddy?

 

[Kelly]

The reason I ask, I notice the whole Reverand Wright thing is STILL being brought up. And I have brought up Liddy in the McCain thread. It gets conveniently ignored. I feel that, when someone brings up Obama's "dodgy connections" I should say, what about Liddy?

Um, LS (an Obama supporter) brought up the Wright issue.....

 

[Matt]

Yep, and aside from that, no one cares about McCain. If I choose to vote McCain over a third party, it will not be a vote for McCain but a vote against Obama. I am not defending McCain. While I once admired him very much, I think he has made an ass of himself for the past 6 years. That does not mean I am going to excuse Obama's short comings because McCain did this or that. I simply don't care about McCain or his shortcomings to talk about them indepth.

 

[kainedamo]

And its being argued by Matt and others as a negative.

The subject of Wright is a dead horse, I feel.

We know that Wright has spoken out about the American government in the past concerning the government using black people as guinea pigs, which is a historical fact. His words have been twisted into a context to make it seem Wright hates Americans.

We all know Wright has put his foot in his mouth when he spoke out for Obama, being too harsh on Hillary and so forth.

There was so much controversy surrounding Wright that it would have been impossible for Obama to run his campagin while associating with him. The fact that the news media still brings it up from time to time and that it still gets discussed here so passionately, I think, is prove that Obama's continued association with Wright would have sunk his campaign.

 

[Matt]

If you honestly believe Wright is a dead issue, you are either naive or a fool. Wait for the 527s to start playing Reverend Wright ads on a daily basis. Obama to this day has still not adequately answered why he would go to a church for 20 years that is run by a man with whom he so fundamentally disagrees or appoint such a man to his campaign. He will have to answer these questions or he will plummet in the polls when commercials are run on a daily basis with a picture of Obama and Wright standing together followed by Wright saying "The chickens have come home to roost" to the backdrop of the Twin Towers burning.

 

[Kelly]

And its being argued by Matt and others as a negative.

The subject of Wright is a dead horse, I feel.

We know that Wright has spoken out about the American government in the past concerning the government using black people as guinea pigs, which is a historical fact. His words have been twisted into a context to make it seem Wright hates Americans.

We all know Wright has put his foot in his mouth when he spoke out for Obama, being too harsh on Hillary and so forth.

There was so much controversy surrounding Wright that it would have been impossible for Obama to run his campagin while associating with him. The fact that the news media still brings it up from time to time and that it still gets discussed here so passionately, I think, is prove that Obama's continued association with Wright would have sunk his campaign.

Not in the eyes of the voters, IMO......and I don't see that as a flip flop, lie or whatever......I see that situation as a major, major, major.......screw up of judgment on his part, and every misjudgment after that is simply tacked on to that situation. That was an extremely personal connection of major, major proportions, much more than any relationships I have seen in campaigns up to this point.

Is it why I cannot move towards Obama in this election? No, but it is one of several misjudgments that I've seen throughout this campaign. Most of which I've already discussed.......I also cannot get past is seeming arrogance, IMO. It is an opinion of mine, I understand if people do not see that, but I see it loud and clear. I believe that our president does need a great amount of self confidence, but I would like to see that after they have actually won the election....

 

[Marx]

The reason I ask, I notice the whole Reverand Wright thing is STILL being brought up. And I have brought up Liddy in the McCain thread. It gets conveniently ignored. I feel that, when someone brings up Obama's "dodgy connections" I should say, what about Liddy?

I don't recall that...then again, maybe I just didn't see it.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah, but the Wright issue is a "dead horse", the Liddy issue isn't.......lmao.

 

[Marx]

Yeah, but the Wright issue is a "dead horse", the Liddy issue isn't.......lmao.

Anyone who thinks that the Wright issue is in the past is crazy! I wouldn't say that it is too far fetched for Wright to turn out to be Obama's swiftboat.

 

[Kelly]

Anyone who thinks that the Wright issue is in the past is crazy! I wouldn't say that it is too far fetched for Wright to turn out to be Obama's swiftboat.

It is a base to build from as far as bad judgment, that is for sure. Will it be used closer to the election as a swiftboat......probably........I would see 527's bring it out either during the Democratic Convention, or the week after.....

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Um, LS (an Obama supporter) brought up the Wright issue.....

To be honest, I'm not really an Obama supporter (I'm independent). I do however, find him tremendously interesting as a candidate and I can relate to him on many levels...some of which I can't fully articulate here.

 

[Kelly]

To be honest, I'm not really an Obama supporter (I'm independent). I do however, find him tremendously interesting as a candidate and I can relate to him on many levels...some of which I can't fully articulate here.

Well, ya could have fooled me bucko........

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Well, ya could have fooled me bucko........

LOL Well, let me be clear on that. I see a lot of myself in Barack...hence my interest in him. Isn't that weird?

 

[Marx]

LOL Well, let me be clear on that. I see a lot of myself in Barack...hence my interest in him. Isn't that weird?

Yes.