The Obama Thread (Merged x6)

[SuBe]

sure you will.

I will what?

 

[BlackLantern]

I will what?

see that money come back....lowering taxes will not make the wealthy move their money back here.....

 

[Matt]

Yeah but couldn't you say that about any item purchased? Smokers are gone after because they are a seperate group addicted to a legal drug. Notice it's not the rich makers of the cigs that get the extra tax even though they could choose to go into another buisness. Because taxing people that are addicts = good and fair government practice, taxing rich people = commies!!!.

I do not disagree that the government's stance towards tobacco is incredibly hypocritical.

That's true they are innocent until proven guilty, and they can afford payoffs, bribes, political pressure and out of the country accounts so that they can always be innocent. It's fairly standard practice for the rich to do this type of thing on a regular basis. They even have special prisons and names for their crimes so while they can hurt far more people than any drugged out ******* with a gun could ever dream of doing, they can serve their time (if by some miracle their high priced lawyers, jury selection firms, and talking heads fail) away from those poor types and generally keep a portion of their illegally acquired wealth.

You can railroad someone poor to fit any crime and generally get a conviction (look at the recent mess right where I live in Broward County Florida if you want thousand of examples), if you're rich the police have to have hard evidence and still kid glove the rich guy and probably loss because of the lawyers they can afford. The rich have an absurd advantage over the poor, if you want to treat them fairly with taxes then they should be treated fairly across the board. It'll never happen cause they wouldn't allow it.

There is definitely a disporportion in the criminal justice system but that is an entirely different topic which I would be glad to discuss with you in the appropriate topic (or PM) as it has a great deal of interest to me.

So end of the day if a rich guy has to pay more taxes and can only buy two mercedes this year, it's not quite the travesty of justice you might think. Despite the taxes the rich always come out on top.

BTW, no monopoly having Bill Gates would like everyone to know if you don't like Vista, **** YOU!!, you're getting it anyway. But he shouldn't have to pay anymore taxes (proportionately) than a single mother of three, cause it's only fair.

I hate Vista too. But you're ignoring the fact that Bill Gates pays more taxes than thousands of single mothers combined. And that does not take into account his massive charitable donations that go to those single mothers.

 

[kainedamo]

So you condone socialism?

I think most western governments employ some socialist ideas.

 

[SuBe]

I hate Vista too. But you're ignoring the fact that Bill Gates pays more taxes than thousands of single mothers combined. And that does not take into account his massive charitable donations that go to those single mothers.

Not to mention all the people that have jobs or that can perform their Jobs because of Bill Gates, not very many "poor Single Mothers" hire as many people or have jobs because of them.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I do not disagree that the government's stance towards tobacco is incredibly hypocritical.



There is definitely a disporportion in the criminal justice system but that is an entirely different topic which I would be glad to discuss with you in the appropriate topic (or PM) as it has a great deal of interest to me.



I hate Vista too. But you're ignoring the fact that Bill Gates pays more taxes than thousands of single mothers combined. And that does not take into account his massive charitable donations that go to those single mothers.

Cool we agree about the tobacco.

I only brought it up because the innocent until proven guilty thing. If the rich want taxes to be fair(to them) maybe they should give up some of those unfair advantages they hold, cause if not society would only be going out of it's way to appease 10% of the population while ****ing over 90%. If you want to discuss it more though, I'm game.

No, I'm not ignoring that fact. I actually work with the Gates foundation on a few things. It's great and all, but let me be honest, for all those millions its a pitiful nothing to the man. It would be like me giving a homeless guy a penny and then demanding he genuflect and worship me for being such a great person. Half those foundations are to make the public less hateful towards buisness that use corrupt and unethical practices. And gates does pay more taxes than those women, you're right, he also has enough money to buy and sell the US twenty times over. He can get out of any problem, never has to work again, can buy anything he ever wants, has security for his family for the rest of their lives, and never again has to speak or even look at anyone worth less than ten million dollars. He got this way by buying out the hard work of someone else (so not one of those self made types, an opportunist at best), while the working mom is trying to keep her kids fed and holding down any job she can. I can't say I have even the slightest problem with him pay disporportunately far more taxes than the mom. No matter what he'll never have to work again, but for that mom a bit more taxes might mean no braces for her kids or something that really affects her. If gates believes in what his foundation preaches, he would offer to pay more gladly.

 

[SuBe]

No, I'm not ignoring that fact. I actually work with the Gates foundation on a few things. It's great and all, but let me be honest, for all those millions its a pitiful nothing to the man. It would be like me giving a homeless guy a penny and then demanding he genuflect and worship me for being such a great person. Half those foundations are to make the public less hateful towards buisness that use corrupt and unethical practices. And gates does pay more taxes than those women, you're right, he also has enough money to buy and sell the US twenty times over. He can get out of any problem, never has to work again, can buy anything he ever wants, has security for his family for the rest of their lives, and never again has to speak or even look at anyone worth less than ten million dollars. He got this way by buying out the hard work of someone else (so not one of those self made types, an opportunist at best), while the working mom is trying to keep her kids fed and holding down any job she can. I can't say I have even the slightest problem with him pay disporportunately far more taxes than the mom. No matter what he'll never have to work again, but for that mom a bit more taxes might mean no braces for her kids or something that really affects her. If gates believes in what his foundation preaches, he would offer to pay more gladly.

Has that Single Mother created a Product that Revolutionized the World? Again, did Bill Gates Create a Company that Hires Thousands of People and Hundreds of Millions of people can do their Job because of the Inovations by him? Bill Gates earned his money, he pays a disproportionate amount in Taxes. When was the last time you donated the same percentage of your wealth to a charity?

 

[kainedamo]

Forget about Bill Gates for a moment. The man who could give a dollar to every person in the world and still have plenty left over.

Let's talk Exxon. Record profits. Do you really have an issue with this company paying a higher precentage of taxes than a single mother? Really??

 

[moraldeficiency]

Has that Single Mother created a Product that Revolutionized the World? Again, did Bill Gates Create a Company that Hires Thousands of People and Hundreds of Millions of people can do their Job because of the Inovations by him? Bill Gates earned his money, he pays a disproportionate amount in Taxes. When was the last time you donated the same percentage of your wealth to a charity?

He didn't create the product though, he bought it and then capitalized on it by taking other products and getting a patent. He didn't make anything, just an opportunist that capitalized at the right time with the right product. Since then microsoft has gone out of its way to insure they had a monopoly on the market and paid enough lobbiests to keep it that way. It's worked pretty well, but I'd hardly say he's this bastion of the American Dream you paint him out to be.

We can debate how many he put out of buisness by controlling the market, and how many buisness were never formed because of his practices. Maybe the net result was a massive loss of jobs? I don't know, but you don't either.

Again, he didn't make any of the innovations, he only profitted by them and now smart people like you are defending him because he's had enough money to PR this the right way. Rich beats Smart any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Earned? More like bought in and manipulated. But for some reason that seems to be the same thing.

I'd say the money I donate to charaties is proportunately more than gate's donations. I'm also in the BB program and do work for a nonprofit educational firm (that's my own time I'm giving up there, something Gates couldn't fathom). But unlike gates I don't run around screaming how great I am for doing it. I do it cause my sister has diabetes; I hate wifebeaters; I think kids get screwed over way too much; and I believe in knowledge as key. But since we're asking personal questions, what do you do to help out, and how much money do you give to charities?


Sidenote, you're kinda down on the single mother thing ain't ya? What if her kids grow up to be more important that gates ever could have been? What if they didn't have that chance? To deny someone's impact on the world is short sighted, the person who's been the most influential to society both good and bad was a poor jewish carpenter. All I'm saying is money and jobs aren't everything: decency, compassion, doing the hard thing because it's right.....we lose sight of the value in that far too often.

 

[Matt]

Forget about Bill Gates for a moment. The man who could give a dollar to every person in the world and still have plenty left over.

Let's talk Exxon. Record profits. Do you really have an issue with this company paying a higher precentage of taxes than a single mother? Really??

Enough of the "single mother" card. Its a cheap attempt to play emotion over fact. The fact is while they pay the same percentage, their percentage is about 15 million dollars compared to her 15 hundred.

 

[SuBe]

Forget about Bill Gates for a moment. The man who could give a dollar to every person in the world and still have plenty left over.

Let's talk Exxon. Record profits. Do you really have an issue with this company paying a higher precentage of taxes than a single mother? Really??

If you had a product to sell and it cost you $1.00 to purchase from your vendor. And you sold it at a 10% margin. That means you sell it for $1.10. Now if you sold a thousand of them, you would make $100. Now if you sold a million of them you would make how much?

 

[jaguarr]

Hey, guys. How's things going here in the Armchair President And Economic Expert Club?

jag

 

[moraldeficiency]

Enough of the "single mother" card. Its a cheap attempt to play emotion over fact. The fact is while they pay the same percentage, their percentage is about 15 million dollars compared to her 15 hundred.

it does suck that fat rich white guys don't get the same amount of sympathy as poor single mothers. Though there are a hell of a lot more poor single mothers than rich people. 15 hundred could be a year in college for one of their kids going after the American Dream I keep hearing about, the 15 million just means the rich guy has to save up a little while longer for their next mega yacht. It might be the same percentage, but it's not the same thing.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Hey, guys. How's things going here in the Armchair President And Economic Expert Club?

jag

it's awesome, we're about to do jello shots.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Enough of the "single mother" card. Its a cheap attempt to play emotion over fact. The fact is while they pay the same percentage, their percentage is about 15 million dollars compared to her 15 hundred.

it's a very valid example, it's not "cheap" at all, comparing a tax hike for people in the upper brackets to "socialism" THAT is cheap, and that is playing with people's emotions and preconceptions.
the fact that they pay the "same percentage" is the problem, since a single mother, or even a young couple is far less likely to see the same kind of profit that an oil company, or for that matter a large company is likely to see.
plus, the young couple or single mother is not afforded the tax shelter and corporate loopholes that the large corporations are privy to.
should she send her money to the caiman islands? get real people.

 

[jaguarr]

it does suck that fat rich white guys don't get the same amount of sympathy as poor single mothers. Though there are a hell of a lot more poor single mothers than rich people. 15 hundred could be a year in college for one of their kids going after the American Dream I keep hearing about, the 15 million just means the rich guy has to save up a little while longer for their next mega yacht. It might be the same percentage, but it's not the same thing.

Matt is clearly a mega-millionaire so he will argue with you to the end of time on this because he wants to protect his tax shelters.

it's awesome, we're about to do jello shots.

Lime is the best.

jag

 

[SuBe]

it does suck that fat rich white guys don't get the same amount of sympathy as poor single mothers. Though there are a hell of a lot more poor single mothers than rich people. 15 hundred could be a year in college for one of their kids going after the American Dream I keep hearing about, the 15 million just means the rich guy has to save up a little while longer for their next mega yacht. It might be the same percentage, but it's not the same thing.

There's more of that wealth envy.

 

[kainedamo]

There's more of that wealth envy.

That's a bit of a cop out, isn't it?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

That's a bit of a cop out, isn't it?

it's actually the king of all cop outs, the cop out to which all others pay tribute.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Matt is clearly a mega-millionaire so he will argue with you to the end of time on this because he wants to protect his tax shelters.

I'm going to get close and weasel those accounts away. Password you ask? I kid you not, I respond with a grin. Then I'll use my millions in insulate me from you petty commoners and start voting republican! Matt might get upset but since he'd have no money to prove the crime I get to do the rich guy I'm above the law dance while paying a proportionate tax!Mwwwhahahahah!!!!

Lime is the best.

jag

Hey do you advise Martha Stewart on how to fix up houses too?

 

[Kelly]

I lost money on my stocks last quarter.....please Mr. Government don't take more from me.....



And Lime is the new Cottage Blue....

 

[BlackLantern]

well maybe if poor single women would get off their backs...they wouldn't be poor single mothers....

 

[Kelly]

it's actually the king of all cop outs, the cop out to which all others pay tribute.

I bow to Sparkies cop outs...

 

[kainedamo]

well maybe if poor single women would get off their backs...they wouldn't be poor single mothers....

Well, they are single mothers, sooooo...

Where is the money going to come from for a babysitter to mind the child while the mother is off either working or getting an education?

 

[Matt]

Well, they are single mothers, sooooo...

Where is the money going to come from for a babysitter to mind the child while the mother is off either working or getting an education?

But why is it Bill Gates' (since that is the name we are throwing around) responsibility to pay for her babysitter? He did not make the mistake, she did. Why should he have to be taxed extra to clean up her mess?