The Official Dark Avengers Thread

[SouLeSS]

Well, I originally made the thread based on the newsarama summit announcment link, and corp merged it with the noir thread. I was thinking more or less that the specific threads would get made when more news is known about said series's'

 

[Mogwai]

^^yeah, sounds good.

 

[The Question]

Which is SO unlike what we see nowadays. Villains being anti-heroes. The gray side becoming the norm. Traditional superheroes made to seem withless and pointless. Nope, never seen that from Marvel in an event or story.

I don't think it makes the traditional heroes seem pointless. I think it keeps the conflicts varied. Not every story can be about a pure evil antagonist. That becomes formulaic.

And I don't think the anti-hero villains are quite as prevalent as you say. I see plenty of villains, like Purple Man, like Taskmaster, like Mr. Fear and most of the baddies in Daredevil, who are motivated by largely or purely selfish reasons. And I think some of your examples are a little exaggerated. I mean, take Secret Invasion for example. Yes, The Skrulls have motivations that kind of make sense. That doesn't make them anti-heroes. It just means they have a reason for doing what they do that follows some kind of logic, even it's still a bad idea, as opposed to "we will invade the Earth because."

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I don't think it makes the traditional heroes seem pointless. I think it keeps the conflicts varied. Not every story can be about a pure evil antagonist. That becomes formulaic.

And I don't think the anti-hero villains are quite as prevalent as you say. I see plenty of villains, like Purple Man, like Taskmaster, like Mr. Fear and most of the baddies in Daredevil, who are motivated by largely or purely selfish reasons. And I think some of your examples are a little exaggerated. I mean, take Secret Invasion for example. Yes, The Skrulls have motivations that kind of make sense. That doesn't make them anti-heroes. It just means they have a reason for doing what they do that follows some kind of logic, even it's still a bad idea, as opposed to "we will invade the Earth because."

Agreed.

 

[Hans]

With it's roster, I doubt the Evil Illuminati is going to be pure evil. With the exception of his feud with the FF, Doom's morality is more akin to "I am going to save the world. My way. Wether the world likes it or not." The Hood is down for anything that gives him a fair amount of power and respect. And even Loki would probably be okay with giving a helping had to the peoples of Earth, as long as he was given the chance to burn Asgard to the ground. I have a feeling that then "Evil Illuminati" is going to more closely resemble a more shadowy, behind the scenes version of The Authority.

Hmm. If it's done like that, it could work. So long as Loki has his own twisted agenda, I could accept it.

 

[The Question]

Hmm. If it's done like that, it could work. So long as Loki has his own twisted agenda, I could accept it.

I don't even see that as necessary. The main focus of Loki's villainy is Asgard. He ****in' hates Asgard. That's his thing. Where the Earth is involved, he's either indifferent, or actually somewhat fond of it. I could see Loki playing hero simply because he thinks it'd be fun.

 

[Hans]

I don't even see that as necessary. The main focus of Loki's villainy is Asgard. He ****in' hates Asgard. That's his thing. Where the Earth is involved, he's either indifferent, or actually somewhat fond of it. I could see Loki playing hero simply because he thinks it'd be fun.

In my mind, Loki never does anything unless it benefits him in some way. So, him saving lives cannot simply be altruistic, since there's nothing to gain from that. He needs to have some sick reason for pitching in.

 

[arachnid-guy]

Dammit, after reading SI 6...I am excited about the outcome of it. However with titles like Dark Reign/Dark Avengers/'Embrace Change...', things will get darker before they get lighter.

Those last two spreads of SI 6 had me happy. Oh so happy.

 

[Hans]

"Yeah? Well my god has a hammer!"

 

[Hans]

According to Kevin Huxford at Schwapponline.com, ****** will be leading the Dark Avengers. Six characters. "Sentry"?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Victor?

 

[Brainiac 8]

It has to be Doom. I don't see him allowing anyone else to give him orders.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Loki if it's written well, but this is bendis so I'm guessing the hood.

 

[Blader5489]

According to Kevin Huxford at Schwapponline.com, ****** will be leading the Dark Avengers. Six characters. "Sentry"?

The Sentry doesn't have the balls to be either leading or dark avenging.

 

[Dread]

I don't think it makes the traditional heroes seem pointless. I think it keeps the conflicts varied. Not every story can be about a pure evil antagonist. That becomes formulaic.

And I don't think the anti-hero villains are quite as prevalent as you say. I see plenty of villains, like Purple Man, like Taskmaster, like Mr. Fear and most of the baddies in Daredevil, who are motivated by largely or purely selfish reasons. And I think some of your examples are a little exaggerated. I mean, take Secret Invasion for example. Yes, The Skrulls have motivations that kind of make sense. That doesn't make them anti-heroes. It just means they have a reason for doing what they do that follows some kind of logic, even it's still a bad idea, as opposed to "we will invade the Earth because."

Taskmaster is the definition of anti-hero. He's a merc for hire. Nothing personal or petty. He's even working for the government again (which is keeping with continuity, since he has been hired by them before). It works for him but he is a poor example.

The reason I made that point because the theme of the past events of the past 4 years has usually been either heroes infighting or heroes failing against a threat, needing convenience to save them. Over and over and over. We have the THUNDERBOLTS worshipped as heroes while Captain America was called a traitor as he died on the street. The moral of most Marvel events is that superheroes are more trouble than they are worth; they always infight when it is the most vital for them not to, they can turn rogue at a moment's notice, and the only things keeping villains apart are petty grudges.

If you want genuine heroic values, you need to turn to the ANNIHILATION era stuff in space. Yeah, If I were Nova, I'd have left too.

I wouldn't mind varied conflicts if the events made more effort for the heroes to not just be spinning their wheels in a violent huff.

And yeah, even money is on Hood leading the Dark Illuminati. Bendsi had Dr. Doom flail around and job to Sentry, after all (who even a grunt level Skrull could reduce to tears, sobbing in a fetal position in a corner).

 

[THANOSRULES]

The Loki of Mythology is far more interesting than the Marvel Comics version ever has been.

Most comic book Gods are far more simple and lame.

They break down into the "good gods versus the bad gods" .

Pluto was not evil at all. Zeus did plenty of "evil" stuff. Loki was constantly doing both heroic deeds and sinister.

 

[Galact-Gal]

This is the best I could do in 15 seconds...

http://forum.superpouvoir.com/showpost.php?p=233126&postcount=1

Isn't that the Illumi-naughty? Are they the same as the Dark Avengers?

 

[moraldeficiency]

The Loki of Mythology is far more interesting than the Marvel Comics version ever has been.

Most comic book Gods are far more simple and lame.

They break down into the "good gods versus the bad gods" .

Pluto was not evil at all. Zeus did plenty of "evil" stuff. Loki was constantly doing both heroic deeds and sinister.

While you're preaching to the choir, you should check out the Loki mini for a pretty damn good account of the character.

And even slightly diminished in the MU, their Loki has done some big stuff though mainly villianous. Formed the avengers, acts of vengence, disposed Odin and he's occasionally shown with some real depth (JMS' ASM comes to mind).

 

[Blader5489]

I always liked Loki in Ultimates 2 more than in any other of his appearances. The mischievous, trickster kid characterization seemed to fit his MO better than the Shakespearean tranny.

 

[Mr. Green]

Isn't that the Illumi-naughty? Are they the same as the Dark Avengers?

First of all, hahahahahaha! I love that people have started calling it the Illumi-naughty! The first time I saw that I laughed so hard... t:

Second, we don't really know anything concrete about Dark Avengers. At this point it's all speculation. The only thing we really know about the "Illumi-naughty" is that Bendis said something like, "I'm not saying what this is or what it's about but it looks like it could be an evil Illuminati.

 

[Union Jack]

i'd love to see them bring sentry back in...have maybe earth heros on the back foot and the the hulk the green real one and sentry join the fray and kick some severe ass!!!!

 

[The Question]

In my mind, Loki never does anything unless it benefits him in some way. So, him saving lives cannot simply be altruistic, since there's nothing to gain from that. He needs to have some sick reason for pitching in.

I never saw Loki as an opportunist like that. I see him as perfectly willing to do a lot of stuff simply because he thinks it would be fun. He might get a kick out of playing super hero.

 

[Mr. Green]

i'd love to see them bring sentry back in...have maybe earth heros on the back foot and the the hulk the green real one and sentry join the fray and kick some severe ass!!!!

That's entirely possible and even likely, too. In one of the recent MA issues it showed Sentry's wife get attacked and the Void (it was basically a blacked-out version of the Sentry) came and saved her and said that he would help since the Sentry couldn't.

And I agree. That would rock.

 

[arachnid-guy]

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/909/909506p1.html

Marvel's heroes pay a terrible price in December.



Check out the last image.

 

[squeekness]

Probably a stunt or something. They can't kill off everybody, right?