The Official Flash thread

[Anubis]

Yeah, forgot about that one. Didn't really care for it though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked it. It was my introduction to Wally's origin, since I never read the Silver Age version.

 

[CLARKY]

I just think the current stories of Flash are just food for dogs. "eat this, it doesn't matter, Barry is on his way". Maybe the stories are entertaining but, I think it is useless. I begin to think Johns giving Wally two children was part of a bigger plan to bring back Barry Allen, and just put Wally on the side line like a good father-stay in-home-bud-the-real-hero-is-here.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I doubt that, but I do agree that the current stories are meaningless fluff in anticipation of Barry's return. Wally's already ceased being important; he just doesn't know it yet.

 

[CLARKY]

Yep
But G.Johns has been telling everywhere he wanted Barry to come back for a long long time. Since he seems to connect everything and see beyond what readers see, I truely wondering:

 

[UK_Stu]

Barry was my favourite Flash, but I have mixed feelings about him returning. I liked Hal too but he wasn't' 'killed' like Barry was, so you always knew he would return in some capacity - though there has always been that COIE loophole for Barry's return I guess

 

[CLARKY]

Yeah I agree, even if Barry was not "killed" , properly speaking.
That's why I think it is a mistake to bring back Barry. Applying the same miraculous solution is very very very wrong. The universe of the Flash and the GL universe are very different, and above all Kyle and Wally have not been treated the same way, and their relationship to the original mythos is completely different. Wally was the heir of Barry, when Kyle was the replacement for Hal.
Honestly, and even if I like Hal Jordan far more than Kyle Rayner, I think it was a mistake to bring Hal back. What I enjoy, and what I think is the key idea in GL : Rebirth is that every GL is back. And I was deeply shocked when Hal disappear, especially to be replaced by a newbie and a total new vision of what a green lantern was. GL Rebirth was about the re-introduction about the corps and the gl mythos and I think it was about time!
But for Flash it is completely different : Wally was the heir of Barry for almost everything except the detectiv aspect. And instead of re-writing things, G.Johns himself (!) took the thing that Barry had (the rogues for example) and made it better!!
There is no point of bringing back Barry Allen, the mythos of the flash was well alive not so long ago.
I was defending G.:Johns at the beginning, because I thought GL.Rebirth was a good idea. I keep thinking it is, but I begin to think that he didn't want to make the corps alive but just write Hal Jordan and implant HIS idea. Now that he is doing the Flash live again when there is no need to do it (because he was part of those who make Wally so good and so strong), I just feel very unconfortable with what he writes and I just feel that the whole and-so-wonderful-that-you-won't-believe-what-happens-next Lightning saga (bringing back Wally) was just a very dirty "betrayal".

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Bringing Barry back is clearly just a publicity stunt to get the Flash franchise out of the absolute mess DiDio put it in with his boneheaded decisions. The Flash is too big a franchise to not be making money, and if they have to sacrifice Wally to get the cash flowing again, so be it. I can understand it from a business perspective, but as a reader I have no interest in following it. The Flash ends for me when Wally's no longer the star.

 

[Alex Summers]

Bringing Barry back is clearly just a publicity stunt to get the Flash franchise out of the absolute mess DiDio put it in with his boneheaded decisions. The Flash is too big a franchise to not be making money, and if they have to sacrifice Wally to get the cash flowing again, so be it. I can understand it from a business perspective, but as a reader I have no interest in following it. The Flash ends for me when Wally's no longer the star.

What if Walter West was the star? He's not technically Wally. At least, not anymore.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'd be okay with that too. I actually like Walter more than Wally.

 

[Alex Summers]

Yeah, Walter was pretty badass. I loved his costume, too.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Me, too. I wish Wally's costume had retained the shiny look it had when he first created it out of Speed Force energy.

 

[CLARKY]

Bringing Barry back is clearly just a publicity stunt to get the Flash franchise out of the absolute mess DiDio put it in with his boneheaded decisions. The Flash is too big a franchise to not be making money, and if they have to sacrifice Wally to get the cash flowing again, so be it. I can understand it from a business perspective, but as a reader I have no interest in following it. The Flash ends for me when Wally's no longer the star.

What do you mean by "the absolute mess DiDio put it in with his boneheaded decisions" ? Bart as flash/death of Bart/ Return of Wally ?
Anyway, the flash universe is pretty excellent as it is, Rogues revenge proves that, if there is any need to prove it. You say "the flash ends for me", so I ask you what you asked me several weeks ago : "will you pick the book anyway ?"

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'll pick up Flash: Rebirth to see what becomes of Wally, but after that I'm not picking up any Barry-centric series.

And the mess I referred to is the financial one that the Flash is currently in. They took Wally away when pretty much everyone was fond of him, put Bart in when pretty much no one wanted him to graduate to the Flash so soon, then half-assed a way to get Bart out of the book by killing him off and wasting the character, then they brought Wally back and gave him some unremarkable arcs that focused too heavily on the kids. By the time Peyer came around and started writing genuinely good stories again, all of those antics beforehand had driven most of the readers away. Now Flash is selling so crappily that they need Rebirth and all this Barry hype to generate enough interest to make it a top seller again.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I'll pick up Flash: Rebirth to see what becomes of Wally, but after that I'm not picking up any Barry-centric series.

And the mess I referred to is the financial one that the Flash is currently in. They took Wally away when pretty much everyone was fond of him, put Bart in when pretty much no one wanted him to graduate to the Flash so soon, then half-assed a way to get Bart out of the book by killing him off and wasting the character, then they brought Wally back and gave him some unremarkable arcs that focused too heavily on the kids. By the time Peyer came around and started writing genuinely good stories again, all of those antics beforehand had driven most of the readers away. Now Flash is selling so crappily that they need Rebirth and all this Barry hype to generate enough interest to make it a top seller again.

I think Joel La Puma over at Comics Nexus summed up the situation quite interestingly:

"Is there a single DC franchise that’s undergone such a hit in popularity over the past two years than The Flash? Once one of the hottest books in comics, not to mention one of the most consistently strong, the character has been marginalized, neglected, and mishandled ever since the departure of writer Geoff Johns and the temporary departure of protagonist Wally West. Since then, the book has seen a much-maligned thirteen issue run of a new series that featured the promotion and death of Wally’s former sidekick Bart Allen; a return to the previous volume’s numbering and a brief run by earlier scribe Mark Waid; and a new status quo featuring a superheroic West family that’s been coldly received, despite energetic artwork by Freddie Williams II and some clever stories by the underrated Tom Peyer. I could make an argument for the story potential of this setup, not to mention that it’s a viable dynamic to bring in a wider audience if The Incredibles is any indication, but given that DC has finally punched the bright red panic button that is Barry Allen, it’s no longer an issue. The situation is now this: Johns, DC’s fallback guy in terms of building cohesive worlds and streamlining history, is here to play cleanup and prepare The Flash franchise for its next iteration."

I think this line of thought seems to line up with your comments here. But how would you judge the return of Barry Allen? Part of a calculated long-term plan by Johns, Didio and others within DC to restore the Silver Age, as some have speculated, or more of a panicky knee-jerk reaction to slumping sales, with Barry Allen as the "bright red panic button" as described here?

On another note, after reading and enjoying "Wonderland", I have now got round to starting the "Blood Will Run" TPB. Three issues into the main "Blood Will Run" storyline, and I think it's just great. Wally West's Flash just makes such a great, likeable hero, who I think Johns will have a tough time matching with Barry. I love the way the Keystone ensemble gets built up, and how the Rogues seem to flit in and out of the stories. I can't wait to get to the "Iron Heights" one-shot included in the TPB, since that gets so much praise.

 

[BrianWilly]

Bright red panic button, for sure. There was a quote from Mark Waid posted earlier in this thread which basically confirms that killing Bart was certainly never the plan for DC.

I mean, look, whenever someone from either company says something like "Oh we'd planned to do it this new way all along," it's pretty much bull**** through the teeth. If Bart as the Flash had sold a zillion copies and stroked all the right nerdboners, you bet your ass that they would have kept on publishing Bart as the Flash.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Absolutely a panic button, but it does happen to fit in with the overall Silver Age resurrection and glorification we're seeing across just about all of DC's publishing line since One Year Later put sales in the toilet for most of their comics. What were consistent best-sellers then? Johns' Green Lantern featuring the Silver Age's Hal Jordan, Meltzer's JLA featuring a popular iteration of the Silver Age team from the satellite era, Johns and Donner's Action Comics featuring nostalgic elements from Donner's Superman film back in the '70s (a.k.a. the Silver Age), etc. DC's got what seems to be a formula for surefire sales success, so I can't fault them for pursuing it with the Flash, whose sales have been pretty terrible since the mismanagement of his series from OYL 'til Peyer's run. I just also can't muster much interest in the "all Silver Age, all the time" mentality, so I end up dropping lots of DC's books nowadays.

 

[CBG]

Not everyone will like the Silver Age stuff, if they were born after it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm sure there are some people who were around for the Silver Age that don't like the current return to all of it. Different people just have different tastes. I like some forward progression in my comics if I can get it, and most of the stuff going on at DC right now seems like regression instead.

 

[fifthfiend]

The thing of it is that at least personally I'd be all for a silver age revival if it weren't the silver age utterly bled dry of anything resembling fun or imagination. I mean All Star Superman was fun ****ing times but reading Johns' joyless, self-congratulatory hackwork feels like someone taking their collection of classic 12" tall G.I. Joe figures and using them to ream out my *******.

 

[Kenda Man]

I'd be okay with that too. I actually like Walter more than Wally.

Is there a trade collection of Walter West? I've heard bits and pieces about him and he sounds great.

I agree with everyone that Rebirth is a way for DC to bail out the Flash comic. I'm glad they are doing this, even though I don't know the outcome of Wally. DC really needs to restore The Flash comic to it's former glory and I think having Johns' write it is a start and at least there will be some consistency adnd thought put into rebooting the franchise. And I realize it should of not gotten out of hand as it has and need to be rebooted. It would have been fine if it kept going like it was. You have to wonder if Johns' left intentionally because he didn't want to kill Bart.

And p.s. Who thinks Bart is in that lighting rod in Legion of 3 Worlds? The little recap of events that happened in Infinite Crisis and Sinestro corps involving Superboy Prime mentioned Sodam Yat, the Speedsters, and Conner Kent at the museum in the first issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see Conner and Bart to come back at fight on the Legion's side.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm hoping and praying for Conner to be in the lightning rod. What happened to Bart was sad and all, but I'd much rather have Conner back.

There is sadly no collection of the Walter West stuff. It was in Flash #150-159, if you can find the back-issues.

 

[Kenda Man]

I'm hoping and praying for Conner to be in the lightning rod. What happened to Bart was sad and all, but I'd much rather have Conner back.

There is sadly no collection of the Walter West stuff. It was in Flash #150-159, if you can find the back-issues.

Thanks corp about Walter's run, I will definitely check it out.

I know what you mean about Conner. I felt like Johns is foreboding the possible return of certain people, and that was seen at the museum with Sodam Yat. I'm sure he may do something like that with Bart or Conner.

The way Legion of 3 Worlds was set up so far, it seems like evil will prevail in the early issues, but with the addition of the other legions, they could have a chance. And it would great to have whatever Legion is left to have an alagam of different legion members on the team and to have a Superboy on the team, and that could be Conner's position or it would be messed up if Prime "reforms" and stays with the legion. Who knows, but I like to speculate what may happen.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I wouldn't mind that. My main objection to it was the loss of Waid's ingenious youth movement aspect to the Legion, but it seems that's already gone under Shooter, replaced by a more traditional superhero sort of thing. So sure, I'm okay with displacing the other Legions so that the Silver Age Legion is back at the center of it all. If they can keep XS and other newer Legionnaires with them, all the better. I don't think I'd much like to see Superboy Prime stay with the Legion, though. This whole redemption thing is just ******ed to me. It's fine for Superman to try because that's what Superman does, but some people are just beyond redemption.

 

[Anubis]

Supes should crush his head like Miracle man did Kid Miracle or something.