The Official Flash thread

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Keyser Soze said:
See, I'd do a movie from the perspective of the Rogues, where Captain Cold is your anti-hero, and the local superhero The Flash - beloved public celebrity, hopelessly outclasses the Rogues - is almost a de facto antagonist. But I'm weird that way, and I know that approach is not blockbuster material.
Click to expand...

Rogue movie FTW! :woot:

...You're right, that idea would never fly at the box office. I do believe it would be perfect as an animated DC film however.

Teardrop said:
Well, now I don't know about that. I think Barry is a good character, but his death was, in my opinion, probably the most well done death in comic history. It also was hugely significant to not just DC comics, but to comic history. Plus, he was successfully replaced for over 20 years. Of course, personal bias does come into play with that. Some will always like Wally the best and some will always like Barry more. Personally, I think Wally was the better and more interesting character of the two.

To me, bringing back Barry is about the same as Marvel bringing back Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy and making them regular cast members in Spider-Man. Not only is it unneeded, I also think it dulls down the significance of them.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely.

I like Barry, I do but I find his revival wildly inappropriate and unnecessary. It also has me nervous as to what it may entail for the other speedsters...
 
I think Jay, Wally, and Bart will be okay. Shoved to the back burner but okay.
 
Bringing back Barry is nothing like bringing back Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy. It's nothing like Batman's parents. All those events are origins and defining moments of the character. And I suppose the franchise. In this case the franchise being Flash II.

Barry's death and rebirth is hardly the first instance of superhero resurrection. And maybe Superman's death is a great catalyst for Conner's origin but bringing Superman back doesn't invalidate his franchise.

Wally was kicking ass long before Barry died. Wally will be kicking ass long after Barry's return.


That's nothing like Uncle Ben.



:gl: :gl: :gl:
 
Franklin Richards said:
Bringing back Barry is nothing like bringing back Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy. It's nothing like Batman's parents. All those events are origins and defining moments of the character. And I suppose the franchise. In this case the franchise being Flash II.

Barry's death and rebirth is hardly the first instance of superhero resurrection. And maybe Superman's death is a great catalyst for Conner's origin but bringing Superman back doesn't invalidate his franchise.

Wally was kicking ass long before Barry died. Wally will be kicking ass long after Barry's return.


That's nothing like Uncle Ben.



:gl: :gl: :gl:
Click to expand...

Key words. I do think Barry's death was a defining moment in the DCU, to the character and comic book history. At no point did I reference Barry's return as the first or only. Most deaths in comic books suck or are pointless. Keypoint being the Superman example you brought up. They had a random alien come from literally nowhere and beat him to death. Now, if Superman had died a truly epic and meaningful death like Barry did, then I would be standing by letting his death go as long as he had been replaced respectfully and by a character of equal, or better, value.

I won't try to hammer my belief into you, but bringing back Barry to me really isn't all that different. If you disagree we've just going to have to agree to disagree as I highly doubt either of us is changing the others mind. I agree with you about Wally, though. I hope he keeps kicking ass even in whatever situation he falls into
 
My thoughts on Rebirth #1:

It's been a month or so since The Flash: Rebirth #1 hit stores. I think it's safe to say that most everyone reading this has already seen the issue (if not, getcha ass out and buy it now! ).

Now there's been some discord over Barry Allen's personality/attitude and some character retcons or changes or addings or whatever you want to call it among fans. Part of the purpose of this post is to adress those details and hopefully put some of those concerns to rest and put things in the right perspective.

First, let me start by saying that I am not one of those "bring back all the Silver Age" people. I was born Post Crisis, 1990 to be exact, and Wally has been Flash most my life, same with Kyle as Green Lantern. So I've grown up with all the post crisis "modern age" versions of the characters being prevelant in comics. Despite this, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan are my all time favorite Flash and Green Lantern, and I consider them to be the best/definite version of The Flash and Green Lantern (and they are, no question :P ). The things that I like about the silver age and would want to see in modern stories are the original big 7 JLA, I like th Earth 1 and Earth 2 concepts (multiverse), and the iconic (yes, I'm calling it that) versions of certain characters i. e. the Barry Allen Flash, Hal Jordan Green Lantern, Ray Palmer Atom, Ollie Queen Green Arrow, Katar Hol Hawkman, etc. I like Elongated Man, but Plastic Man will always be my #1 stretchy guy. I also like the original Teen Titans along with the Perez lineup, and that about rounds out my silver age favorites.

What I really like about the "modern age" stories is the characterization and character centric stories. I'd love to see that method of story telling applied to my favorite Silver Age concepts. My all time favorite thing about the Post Crisis DCU and the one thing I wish we could see more of in present comics is the John Byrne Man of Steel Superman. I just think it's awsome and is the best version of Superman outside of Superman: the animated series to date. I really hope Geoff Johns and CO keep at least some of its elements, especially the "Clark is the REAL guy" thing in the upcoming Superman: Secret Origin mini. My only possible complaint about the Byrne Supes if you can even call it that is that I wish his Superman were slightly more powerful, at least more powerful than how he was portrayed in early issues.

Now onto Flash: Rebirth...

First thing you have to ask yourself is "Do I know Barry Allen"? My own personal answer is yes, I think I do. I've been reading comics and Barry's stories since I was about 12, I've read over half his silver age run and every good modern age written Barry Allen story I can get my hands on (favorite being New Frontier) and if I don't know Barry Allen and his personality by now then I probably never will. Now I know most people will say that all silver age stories have zero personality in them, which is true I think in comparison with today's stories of course, but I still disagree. All those silver age characters had personalities. If you look at their actions and idiosyncrasies and you follow them to a concusion, their personalities become very apparent, as any good writer (like Goff Johns) is aware of. I know what Barry's personality is, he is optimistic, easy going, slightly absent minded or distracted, he has a good but not over the top sense of humor, a very strong sense of right and wrong, is slightly pragmatic, and while not directly relating to his personality, he is very science based as a character.

Next thing you have to ask is "Does Geoff Johns know Barry Allen?". I think the short answer to this is yes as well. The man has every issue of Barry's run (pardon the pun heheh), has been writing comics for a longtime, has written Wally for five years, and is a self confessed huge Flash fan, more so than any other DC character. I think he's probably read more Barry stories than I have, so yes, I think he knows Barry Allen quite well. He knows everything about him that I do. He knows Barry's personality and what's going on in his head. He knows Barry is a generally optimistic character. So why does it seem that the "new" Barry Allen in Flash Rebirth #1 isn't quite the same guy we were just talking about? And is this how Barry Allen will be depicted from now on in the DCU?

Well I don't think so. Geoff Johns said that in Flash: Rebirth, the return of Barry Allen, his return from the speed force, is "the worst thing that could happen to him". If that is true, then in Flash: Rebirth, we're seeing Barry Allen at what is the worst time in his life. This is a Barry Allen who knows something is wrong but no one believes him (yet). This is a Barry Allen that knows or at the very least believes that at any moment he could be gone again, sucked back into the speed force, and that because of this he must do everything he can that matters, he can't waste a second, he doesn't have time for parties or even friends anymore only what he can do that matter before he disappears.

This is the worst thing that could happen to him. This is the same old Barry Allen at the worst time in his life, and this/he seems unusual because we've never seen this or Barry in a situation like this in modern writing. How "fun" or "optimistic" would Superman or Wally West or Hal Jordan be if we met them at the worst time in their lives? In other words, this is Barry Allen on a bad day, not being his typical self, and that's something we've never seen before which is why it may have come as a bit of a shock to some readers in #1, Barry isn't himself right now. So obviously, once the things in Rebirth get resolved, Barry will be himself again, just like Hal. Hope that helps put things in perspective. Geoff Johns knows how Barry usually is, even had Jay remark on what a joyful person Barry was and let Barry poke fun at Hal for a second to remind us that he knows who Barry is, he's still Barry in Rebirth. This is just the beginning of the story, entirely to soon to start jumping to conclusions. I say fans should let it play out a little more before determining that "this isn't how Barry would act" and "how he's acting must be how he'll always act in the current DCU" and getting all uppity. Has Geoff Johns ever given us reason to doubt him before? Has Barry for that matter? Not in my book.

Another thing that bothered some people was the ominous background provided on Barry's childhood - Barry's dad being implicated with his mother's death. Now, I'll admit that my immediate knee jerk reaction was "holy ****!", but after careful consideration, as long as this deat doesn't consume Barry like Batman's parents deaths (I don't think it will), I actually really like this. This is probably part of the reason he went into forensics, and I find this very interesting and believable, and I think it fits into Barry's story fine. Remember, there was a time when Hal Jordan's dad didn't die in a plane crash, there was a time when Wally West's parents weren't *****, and there was also a time when both the Kents were dead. Barry Allen never had an "Emarald Dawn" or "Man of Steel" or "Year One", a modern age story that showed us what makes him tick. I don't think the afformetioned character developments hurt their respective characters, and I doubt this will harm Barry Allen in some way, especially in the capable hands of Geoff Johns (greatest writer at DC Comics, remember?), so this is Barry's "Man of Steel" or "Emerald Dawn" or "Year One". I say go with this. It's gonna work, and is a helluva lot better than giving him an evil twin (cough - like - cough - Mark Waid - cough ).

Now, my other personal thoughts on the issue are:

I'm glad Barry Allen is back. Like Hal Jordan in the issue, I don't care how or why he is back, I'm just glad that he's back. He could've just sat up in a coffin and I'd have been like "yes!", but I'm glad we're getting so much better than that. This is really the best case scenario; we have Geoff Johns writing Barry, Wally, The Rogues, and Flash, I'd say there's omething for all Flash fans. Although that isn't enough for some people as you can never please everyone. Only people I can fathom not liking this are the "don't bring back Barry" people, the people who are anti Barry Allen in general and the "Wally only" people.

So far I think the story is great, the groundwork has been laid for some major things to come. One of the things that I love about Johns' writing and one of the things that I think is so great about it is the enormous attention to detail. I love the scene at the beginning of the ish where the one crooked forensics cop says to the younger one "I keep telling you kid, this is how Central City works. You hurry up and get it done", a line that I think is so great because that was the exact opposite of how Barry Allen did things, he was slow and always late, but he always did it right, unlike the forensics cop at the beginning of the ish who wants to use false evidence just to close the case he and his partner are working on.

As for who the big bad is, I really have no idea. I half want it to be Eobard Thawne, the Reverse Flash, I'd love to see him re-established at some point, even though Johns says he's dead (so was Sinestro and so was Barry and Hal for that matter). But I have no idea who this is. I thought it might be Libra for a second because of the staff but then I was like "nah". So I'm totally hooked, I can't wait to find out who the surprise villain is. Whoever this guy is, he apparently knows Barry Allen pretty well. Johns said that the villain is commiting the greatest crime against speedsters, and I can't wait.

In comparison with Green Lantern: Rebirth, obviously, it's a little early to tell if it will be as fondly remembered (I think it will), but The Flash and Barry Allen is a more human, down to earth character than Green Lantern. He's great because he has the personal life aspects like Superman and the big cosmic stuff like Green Lantern.

So what else is there? Well, Bart's being a d-bag again, his mentality that "Wally is the real Flash and I'm Kid Flash" (which is funny cuz he's not even the real Kid Flash heheh) is obviously there for the people who only know Wally as Flash, to be a voice for them and I think that's good. It helps put things in perspective. I loved the "we're gonna need more Rogues" line from Mirror Master, and that Barry sees the speed force in scientific terms and does not call it "speed force" immediately (yet). I love that Barry is getting his job back, and I'm anxious to find out what people think happened to Barry Allen , the forensics scientist, not The Flash. Iris is looking good. Joan looked like Marta Stewart in the ish lol. I love the new speed effects Ethan Van Sciver uses, the blurr technique looks great.The page towards the end of the ish where Barry suits up for the first time is awesome and The Flash museam looked amazing. I think this is EVS best work to date. Only gripe about the art, and this isn't EVS fought at all, is Barry's "magic" shirt, lol. The first time we see Barry in the issue his shirt is white, then on the very next page and throughout the rest of the book it's red, lol. Weird. Oh, and apparently Wally's kids aren't tweens anymore (still annoying though) and Linda Park is a reporter again.

Can't wait for issue number 2!!!

(apologies for verbose post)
 
I wonder if that's really Kevin Smith. He certainly talks as much as Silent Bob. :o
 
Kevin Smith said:
My thoughts on Rebirth #1:

It's been a month or so since The Flash: Rebirth #1 hit stores. I think it's safe to say that most everyone reading this has already seen the issue (if not, getcha ass out and buy it now! ).

Now there's been some discord over Barry Allen's personality/attitude and some character retcons or changes or addings or whatever you want to call it among fans. Part of the purpose of this post is to adress those details and hopefully put some of those concerns to rest and put things in the right perspective.

First, let me start by saying that I am not one of those "bring back all the Silver Age" people. I was born Post Crisis, 1990 to be exact, and Wally has been Flash most my life, same with Kyle as Green Lantern. So I've grown up with all the post crisis "modern age" versions of the characters being prevelant in comics. Despite this, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan are my all time favorite Flash and Green Lantern, and I consider them to be the best/definite version of The Flash and Green Lantern (and they are, no question :P ). The things that I like about the silver age and would want to see in modern stories are the original big 7 JLA, I like th Earth 1 and Earth 2 concepts (multiverse), and the iconic (yes, I'm calling it that) versions of certain characters i. e. the Barry Allen Flash, Hal Jordan Green Lantern, Ray Palmer Atom, Ollie Queen Green Arrow, Katar Hol Hawkman, etc. I like Elongated Man, but Plastic Man will always be my #1 stretchy guy. I also like the original Teen Titans along with the Perez lineup, and that about rounds out my silver age favorites.

What I really like about the "modern age" stories is the characterization and character centric stories. I'd love to see that method of story telling applied to my favorite Silver Age concepts. My all time favorite thing about the Post Crisis DCU and the one thing I wish we could see more of in present comics is the John Byrne Man of Steel Superman. I just think it's awsome and is the best version of Superman outside of Superman: the animated series to date. I really hope Geoff Johns and CO keep at least some of its elements, especially the "Clark is the REAL guy" thing in the upcoming Superman: Secret Origin mini. My only possible complaint about the Byrne Supes if you can even call it that is that I wish his Superman were slightly more powerful, at least more powerful than how he was portrayed in early issues.

Now onto Flash: Rebirth...

First thing you have to ask yourself is "Do I know Barry Allen"? My own personal answer is yes, I think I do. I've been reading comics and Barry's stories since I was about 12, I've read over half his silver age run and every good modern age written Barry Allen story I can get my hands on (favorite being New Frontier) and if I don't know Barry Allen and his personality by now then I probably never will. Now I know most people will say that all silver age stories have zero personality in them, which is true I think in comparison with today's stories of course, but I still disagree. All those silver age characters had personalities. If you look at their actions and idiosyncrasies and you follow them to a concusion, their personalities become very apparent, as any good writer (like Goff Johns) is aware of. I know what Barry's personality is, he is optimistic, easy going, slightly absent minded or distracted, he has a good but not over the top sense of humor, a very strong sense of right and wrong, is slightly pragmatic, and while not directly relating to his personality, he is very science based as a character.

Next thing you have to ask is "Does Geoff Johns know Barry Allen?". I think the short answer to this is yes as well. The man has every issue of Barry's run (pardon the pun heheh), has been writing comics for a longtime, has written Wally for five years, and is a self confessed huge Flash fan, more so than any other DC character. I think he's probably read more Barry stories than I have, so yes, I think he knows Barry Allen quite well. He knows everything about him that I do. He knows Barry's personality and what's going on in his head. He knows Barry is a generally optimistic character. So why does it seem that the "new" Barry Allen in Flash Rebirth #1 isn't quite the same guy we were just talking about? And is this how Barry Allen will be depicted from now on in the DCU?

Well I don't think so. Geoff Johns said that in Flash: Rebirth, the return of Barry Allen, his return from the speed force, is "the worst thing that could happen to him". If that is true, then in Flash: Rebirth, we're seeing Barry Allen at what is the worst time in his life. This is a Barry Allen who knows something is wrong but no one believes him (yet). This is a Barry Allen that knows or at the very least believes that at any moment he could be gone again, sucked back into the speed force, and that because of this he must do everything he can that matters, he can't waste a second, he doesn't have time for parties or even friends anymore only what he can do that matter before he disappears.

This is the worst thing that could happen to him. This is the same old Barry Allen at the worst time in his life, and this/he seems unusual because we've never seen this or Barry in a situation like this in modern writing. How "fun" or "optimistic" would Superman or Wally West or Hal Jordan be if we met them at the worst time in their lives? In other words, this is Barry Allen on a bad day, not being his typical self, and that's something we've never seen before which is why it may have come as a bit of a shock to some readers in #1, Barry isn't himself right now. So obviously, once the things in Rebirth get resolved, Barry will be himself again, just like Hal. Hope that helps put things in perspective. Geoff Johns knows how Barry usually is, even had Jay remark on what a joyful person Barry was and let Barry poke fun at Hal for a second to remind us that he knows who Barry is, he's still Barry in Rebirth. This is just the beginning of the story, entirely to soon to start jumping to conclusions. I say fans should let it play out a little more before determining that "this isn't how Barry would act" and "how he's acting must be how he'll always act in the current DCU" and getting all uppity. Has Geoff Johns ever given us reason to doubt him before? Has Barry for that matter? Not in my book.

Another thing that bothered some people was the ominous background provided on Barry's childhood - Barry's dad being implicated with his mother's death. Now, I'll admit that my immediate knee jerk reaction was "holy ****!", but after careful consideration, as long as this deat doesn't consume Barry like Batman's parents deaths (I don't think it will), I actually really like this. This is probably part of the reason he went into forensics, and I find this very interesting and believable, and I think it fits into Barry's story fine. Remember, there was a time when Hal Jordan's dad didn't die in a plane crash, there was a time when Wally West's parents weren't *****, and there was also a time when both the Kents were dead. Barry Allen never had an "Emarald Dawn" or "Man of Steel" or "Year One", a modern age story that showed us what makes him tick. I don't think the afformetioned character developments hurt their respective characters, and I doubt this will harm Barry Allen in some way, especially in the capable hands of Geoff Johns (greatest writer at DC Comics, remember?), so this is Barry's "Man of Steel" or "Emerald Dawn" or "Year One". I say go with this. It's gonna work, and is a helluva lot better than giving him an evil twin (cough - like - cough - Mark Waid - cough ).

Now, my other personal thoughts on the issue are:

I'm glad Barry Allen is back. Like Hal Jordan in the issue, I don't care how or why he is back, I'm just glad that he's back. He could've just sat up in a coffin and I'd have been like "yes!", but I'm glad we're getting so much better than that. This is really the best case scenario; we have Geoff Johns writing Barry, Wally, The Rogues, and Flash, I'd say there's omething for all Flash fans. Although that isn't enough for some people as you can never please everyone. Only people I can fathom not liking this are the "don't bring back Barry" people, the people who are anti Barry Allen in general and the "Wally only" people.

So far I think the story is great, the groundwork has been laid for some major things to come. One of the things that I love about Johns' writing and one of the things that I think is so great about it is the enormous attention to detail. I love the scene at the beginning of the ish where the one crooked forensics cop says to the younger one "I keep telling you kid, this is how Central City works. You hurry up and get it done", a line that I think is so great because that was the exact opposite of how Barry Allen did things, he was slow and always late, but he always did it right, unlike the forensics cop at the beginning of the ish who wants to use false evidence just to close the case he and his partner are working on.

As for who the big bad is, I really have no idea. I half want it to be Eobard Thawne, the Reverse Flash, I'd love to see him re-established at some point, even though Johns says he's dead (so was Sinestro and so was Barry and Hal for that matter). But I have no idea who this is. I thought it might be Libra for a second because of the staff but then I was like "nah". So I'm totally hooked, I can't wait to find out who the surprise villain is. Whoever this guy is, he apparently knows Barry Allen pretty well. Johns said that the villain is commiting the greatest crime against speedsters, and I can't wait.

In comparison with Green Lantern: Rebirth, obviously, it's a little early to tell if it will be as fondly remembered (I think it will), but The Flash and Barry Allen is a more human, down to earth character than Green Lantern. He's great because he has the personal life aspects like Superman and the big cosmic stuff like Green Lantern.

So what else is there? Well, Bart's being a d-bag again, his mentality that "Wally is the real Flash and I'm Kid Flash" (which is funny cuz he's not even the real Kid Flash heheh) is obviously there for the people who only know Wally as Flash, to be a voice for them and I think that's good. It helps put things in perspective. I loved the "we're gonna need more Rogues" line from Mirror Master, and that Barry sees the speed force in scientific terms and does not call it "speed force" immediately (yet). I love that Barry is getting his job back, and I'm anxious to find out what people think happened to Barry Allen , the forensics scientist, not The Flash. Iris is looking good. Joan looked like Marta Stewart in the ish lol. I love the new speed effects Ethan Van Sciver uses, the blurr technique looks great.The page towards the end of the ish where Barry suits up for the first time is awesome and The Flash museam looked amazing. I think this is EVS best work to date. Only gripe about the art, and this isn't EVS fought at all, is Barry's "magic" shirt, lol. The first time we see Barry in the issue his shirt is white, then on the very next page and throughout the rest of the book it's red, lol. Weird. Oh, and apparently Wally's kids aren't tweens anymore (still annoying though) and Linda Park is a reporter again.

Can't wait for issue number 2!!!

(apologies for verbose post)
Click to expand...

One of the many things i liked about this post is that, unlike everyone else, you dont generalize the silver age with the same cliche statements...in other words, you may be one of the few posters who've actually read silver age comics instead of *****ing about them...
 
Well, that guy certainly is passionate. Some of his points are iffy, since retconning is a tool in virtually every writer's arsenal these days. It sort of has to be given the amount of continuity comic writers have to deal with at this point. But I completely, 100% agree with his points on Savitar. That was a serious waste of a fantastic villain who helped make the Speed Force such a huge part of the Flash legacy. His idea for contrasting Savitar's sociopathy after being ripped from Heaven with Barry's acceptance because he has Iris and other friends and family to keep him grounded could've been a really, really good story.
 
Wally West is looking like Scott Porter in that pic....just saying
 
[blackout]Barry Allen as new Dark Flash is DAMN FINE character development[/blackout]
 
cerealkiller182 said:
[blackout]Barry Allen as new Dark Flash is DAMN FINE character development[/blackout]
Click to expand...
you mean [BLACKOUT]black[/BLACKOUT]? and really? cuz [BLACKOUT]i called it halfway through issue one and ill bet wally ends up as the black flash by the end of the mini, sacrificing himself so barry can live anew... remember johns and EVS said wally would have a new uniform familiar to fans[/BLACKOUT]... ugh
 
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