The Official Flash Thread

[ChickenScratch]

Just like Dick Grayson or Jean Paul Valley will never be Batman in a movie.

 

[MadVillainy]

^^^thats because Valley and Grayson have had nowhere near the same impact as Batman as Wally had as the main Flash.

Who knows, maybe if Grayson is the Batman for the next 20+ years and develops a following like Wally has then ppl will be seeing Bruce vs Dick over message boards or whatever we have in the future

Wally wont replace barry for the mere fact that its no longer necessary. Barry, despite what DC might say, is THE Flash right now. The only way wally replaces barry is if its the last movie

Hell, even when Wally WAS the main flash, they still chose barry for the tv show, and wally never made an appearance.

I see what your saying, when Wally was the main Flash a couple years ago all the other movie incarnations were him and not that its Barry theyll be doing the same

And about the TV show, maybe it was because Wally had only been Flash for like 5 years. IDK

And what do you mean "Barry, despite what DC might say, is THE Flash right now." Im pretty sure DC is the one pushing for him to be THE Flash

 

[Webhead2006]

who really knows how they will handle the legacy aspect to film once we do get film in production for flash.

 

[The Batman]

And what do you mean "Barry, despite what DC might say, is THE Flash right now." Im pretty sure DC is the one pushing for him to be THE Flash

Wally, like Jay Garrick still operate under the name "Flash". Wally's new suit even looks like the JLU outfit.

 

[Webhead2006]

what does wally's new suit look like i was wondering what it is now? And really they could could legacy aspect in the film. Have the film first one that is be about barry's origins as the flash, have wally there as a supporting role(probably minor for first film and bigger in sequels). Then add in jay in some fashion either him being a comic character, a tv character, or a real hero many ways it could be.

 

[flash13]

 

[cerealkiller182]

Can that really be considered a "new" suit? Isnt that pretty much what Wallys always looked like

Even looking at hyperborea's comparison it just sounds like artist variation (little things that would change from artist to artist)

 

[Webhead2006]

thanks for the images guys, so it really was just a slight difference, i would have thought they give him a totally new design look.

 

[Timstuff]

It is pretty much his JLU look. He's got the open belt, lightning bolts on the sides of his head rather than wings, and the mask goes all the way up to his eyes instead of being open like Barry's. The one other difference that's also different from Justice League is that the nose is mostly covered (like in the live action show), rather than mostly uncovered. Overall though they did not radically re-imagine what Wally's costume looks like, which makes me happy since I was concerned that they were going to give him something that looked less Flash-like in order to promote the idea of Barry being "the true Flash."

 

[Young Superman]

I love Wally's new look.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I mean the legacy aspect is just one reason I want Wally.

Legacy is meaningless without Barry....if you don't have Barry you should not do Wally at all because Barry is so important to Wally's character. Again, it is better to do as many films as you can with Barry and use Wally to his full potential in other projects (maybe a Teen Titans as Kid Flash), before shoe-horning him into Barry's suit. Best case scenario (Johns is prducing!! c'mon!) after 3 films, somewhere down the line people will want to revisit Flash, and, if they like, they can use Wally then and use the Barry films as a background in either a new film series or tv show.

With Barry, it's basically I was slow I got powers now I'm fast.

SPEED. Which is what The Flash is supposed to be about. Not a guy pretending to be his dead uncle.

(Personally Barry in comics now, Blackest Night in particular is much more interesting then old Barry)

^^ That can be said of almost any character post 1985. Pre Crisis Wally is less interesting than Wally now.

With Wally you can have his womanizing days, his financial issues, his mental blocks that kept him from being a hero ALONG with the whole legacy aspect

But thats just my 2 cents

The "womanizing days" is not a good selling point for Wally at all, because 1) we already have at least 4 superheroes who are "womanizers" in movies; Iron Man, Hal Jordan, Wolverine, Human Torch, etc. I don't think people really want to see another womanizing superhero. We don't have any superheroes who are forensic scientists tho. t: 2) the womanizing Wally hasn't been relevant since....oh..1990? That doesn't even pertain to how the character is written currently or at all in recent years. Same goes for the financial issues. WTF.

 

[Kevin Smith]

The defining thing about The Flash is that it's a legacy, it's not just about Barry Allen, it's also about Wally West, Jay Garrick and Bart Allen. If they just make another clique superhero movie (Spider-Man and Superman: The Movie) Instead of focusing on the legacy as David Goyer was going to do then I for one will be annoyed. (Sometimes I wish Goyer was still on the project)

The legacy has "defined Flash" when it's been convenient for DC to help boost acceptance for particular characters, namely Wally West and Bart Allen. The defining thing about The Flash has always been speed, and no Flash embodies that better than Barry Allen. Late, early, fast, slow, future, past, it's speed in its related forms, that's what the character is supposed to be about. Not "legacy". Legacy better applies tp the Phantom in a grandscope than Flash. We have one character who is synonymous with super speed and the filmakers should take advantage of this and make a kickass film about it and show the world how awesome super speed is as a power.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Legacy is meaningless without Barry....if you don't have Barry you should not do Wally at all because Barry is so important to Wally's character. Again, it is better to do as many films as you can with Barry and use Wally to his full potential in other projects (maybe a Teen Titans as Kid Flash), before shoe-horning him into Barry's suit. Best case scenario (Johns is prducing!! c'mon!) after 3 films, somewhere down the line people will want to revisit Flash, and, if they like, they can use Wally then and use the Barry films as a background in either a new film series or tv show.

Legacy is absolutely NOT meaningless without Barry. Living up to a predecessor/not dissapointing a mentor is something that everyone can relate to. The hero/sidekick dynamic has been well-defined in pop culture, and the scenario of sidekick graduating to hero has a slew of dramatic possibilities not yet seen. Legacy played a huge part in the movie The Phantom, and there was absolutely nothing hard to understand about the fact that a successor took over for his mentor.

SPEED. Which is what The Flash is supposed to be about. Not a guy pretending to be his dead uncle.

The Flash will be about speed no matter who they put under the mask. And Wally doesnt pretend to be his dead uncle. He still very much acts in character as Wally just carrying the mantle of a man he greatly respected and appreciated. That is much different from how you describe it.

The "womanizing days" is not a good selling point for Wally at all, because 1) we already have at least 4 superheroes who are "womanizers" in movies; Iron Man, Hal Jordan, Wolverine, Human Torch, etc. I don't think people really want to see another womanizing superhero. We don't have any superheroes who are forensic scientists tho. t:

You clearly know nothing about Hollywood. A "selling point" is a trusty plot/character element used to sell the rest of the original elements. Wally's "womanizing" past is most definitely a selling point cause thus far sarcastic, mysoginistic, but surprisingly charming action heroes have almost always been successful. So the "womanizers" are definitely a "selling point." womanizer seems like a strong term for it though, it implies abuse to me, when we are pretty much just talking about a man-**** (right?)

2) the womanizing Wally hasn't been relevant since....oh..1990? That doesn't even pertain to how the character is written currently or at all in recent years. Same goes for the financial issues. WTF.

And up to about a few months ago, Barry wasnt relevant other than being a martyr (and even being back has yet to prove real relevancy although thats only a matter of time). Yet somehow I find it hard to believe you wouldnt push for Barry before his resurrection considering his relevancy at the time was about the same as Wallys past is now.

Wally brings so much more to the table than Barry that to skip him over because Barry was "first" seems asinine. To just assume that this franchise is going to make so many installments that they'll just eventually move on to Wally even though so many action franchises have limped over the finish line when dealing with 2 or more installments makes absolutely no sense.

 

[MadVillainy]

double post

 

[MadVillainy]

Legacy is absolutely NOT meaningless without Barry. Living up to a predecessor/not dissapointing a mentor is something that everyone can relate to. The hero/sidekick dynamic has been well-defined in pop culture, and the scenario of sidekick graduating to hero has a slew of dramatic possibilities not yet seen. Legacy played a huge part in the movie The Phantom, and there was absolutely nothing hard to understand about the fact that a successor took over for his mentor.

The Flash will be about speed no matter who they put under the mask. And Wally doesnt pretend to be his dead uncle. He still very much acts in character as Wally just carrying the mantle of a man he greatly respected and appreciated. That is much different from how you describe it.

You clearly know nothing about Hollywood. A "selling point" is a trusty plot/character element used to sell the rest of the original elements. Wally's "womanizing" past is most definitely a selling point cause thus far sarcastic, mysoginistic, but surprisingly charming action heroes have almost always been successful. So the "womanizers" are definitely a "selling point." womanizer seems like a strong term for it though, it implies abuse to me, when we are pretty much just talking about a man-**** (right?)

And up to about a few months ago, Barry wasnt relevant other than being a martyr (and even being back has yet to prove real relevancy although thats only a matter of time). Yet somehow I find it hard to believe you wouldnt push for Barry before his resurrection considering his relevancy at the time was about the same as Wallys past is now.

Wally brings so much more to the table than Barry that to skip him over because Barry was "first" seems asinine. To just assume that this franchise is going to make so many installments that they'll just eventually move on to Wally even though so many action franchises have limped over the finish line when dealing with 2 or more installments makes absolutely no sense.

Great post you said my rebuttal better than I could have


and Kevin Smith: There's James Bond, Kirk, Jack Sparrow, Barney Stinson, Dean Winchester, Hank Moody, Jimmy McNulty, Vincient Chase, that guy from Two and A Half Men, Ryan Kwaten's character on True Blood. All of those (non superhero) guys are popular player characters in successful Tv shows or films
What Im saying is that womanzing (or player) characters have been and are still well received and liked and there are alot of them. I dont see people complain about it.
and how is Wolverine a womanizer in the films?

 

[Timstuff]

Excellent post cereal!

What really makes me feel tired when people say "they should just make a Barry trilogy, and when that's done they can consider Wally" is that it would mean Wally fans will have to wait like 10 years before they can see Wally in action. I would rather have the first movie be Barry with Wally as a prominent supporting character, who discovers his speedster abilities later in the movie. The second movie would be about both of them (mostly Barry) with Barry making the heroic sacrifice late in the movie, and we could end with Wally having a stare down with one of Barry's Flash suits. The third movie would begin afterwards, with Wally deciding to put on the suit and continue the Flash Legacy on his own. Or, alternately (depending on the production timeline) the transition from Barry to Wally could happen during the Justice League movie, similar to what was planned for JLM before it was scrapped.

 

[ChickenScratch]

That still only gives the greatest Flash ever 2 movies and the seat filler potentially a whole franchise.

 

[Timstuff]

IYO Barry is the greatest Flash ever. As the poll shows though, there are certainly plenty of others who prefer Wally.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Legacy is absolutely NOT meaningless without Barry.

The Flash "legacy" is.

Living up to a predecessor/not dissapointing a mentor is something that everyone can relate to. The hero/sidekick dynamic has been well-defined in pop culture,

Really? Where? Since when are sidekicks "cool"? No one has made them "cool" yet.

and the scenario of sidekick graduating to hero has a slew of dramatic possibilities not yet seen.

If done right I agree.

Legacy played a huge part in the movie The Phantom, and there was absolutely nothing hard to understand about the fact that a successor took over for his mentor.

But legacy is what The Phantom has always been about, even at the very beginning. The comic began as a legacy comic, it was tailor made for that kind of story which is why it worked in that movie; the movie was just a (pretty) faithful comics adaptation. Same goes for the Zorro film. The Flash did not begin as a legacy, and for the bulk of the character's publication history or career, he has not been a "legacy" character, that's a dynamic that's been forced mostly when Wally took over to give him a better reception from fans, because the Barry Allen Flash was so well liked that they would not accept a complete reinvention of that character. It's a dynamic that will not translate well into film the way you would like. Trying to cram both into one film doesn't do justice to any of them, and cutting Barry out completely or giving him a 5 minute death doesn't do justice to the Flash.

The Flash will be about speed no matter who they put under the mask.

Wrong. The powers will be about speed, the powers have always been about speed, but the character being about speed is a completely different thing. Barry Allen embodies this better than any Flash. I'm pretty sure I explained this before:

Spoiler

Everything about him literally is about speed and its related forms. His whole life is about speed. That's the premise of his comics, and in the age of technology where everyone wants everything instantly, instant communications, etc, speed is an incredibly relevant concept. Barry Allen is slow, The Flash is fast. That is the character.

The Flash was always supposed to be about speed. That's what the character is supposed to be about, that's what the book was always supposed to be about (which is a fact I think people have forgotten or are just completely oblivious to with Wally and the legacy aspect so prevelant in the last few years), and that's what the Flash book needs to be about: the fastest man alive. And that man is Barry Allen.


Had he not been late for work/everything else, he would not have had to work late in the forensics lab to make up for lost time the night he got hit by lightning/electrically charged chemicals (at age 24) and gained superspeed. Barry Allen is essentially fast because he is slow. He goes from being the guy everyone is waiting on to the guy waiting for everyone else. In a more complex sense, this is like how Jon Osterman became Doctor Manhattan in Watchmen, because he was a watchmaker and could reassemble things. That is what makes Barry Allen the definitive Flash , it's not his accomplishments, it's not his emoluments, it's not the fact that he was The Flash longer than anyone else, Barry Allen is the definitive Flash at the end of the day because he is the only one who is all about speed. He is fast because he is slow. He's all about speed. No other Flash has that. Not Wally. Not Bart. Not Jay. Barry Allen is to Flash as Hal Jordan is to Green Lantern .

And Wally doesnt pretend to be his dead uncle. He still very much acts in character as Wally just carrying the mantle of a man he greatly respected and appreciated. That is much different from how you describe it.

And yet it's the same thing. And Wally was written very differently in the comics as Flash than how he was written as Kid Flash.

You clearly know nothing about Hollywood. A "selling point" is a trusty plot/character element used to sell the rest of the original elements. Wally's "womanizing" past is most definitely a selling point cause thus far sarcastic, mysoginistic, but surprisingly charming action heroes have almost always been successful. So the "womanizers" are definitely a "selling point." womanizer seems like a strong term for it though, it implies abuse to me, when we are pretty much just talking about a man-**** (right?)

You are correct in that hollywood loves redundant things, "if it works, don't fix it" formulas. But as far as originality goes, we already have enough man **** superheroes, and I wouldn't use that as a "selling point" for Wally.

And up to about a few months ago, Barry wasnt relevant other than being a martyr (and even being back has yet to prove real relevancy although thats only a matter of time). Yet somehow I find it hard to believe you wouldnt push for Barry before his resurrection considering his relevancy at the time was about the same as Wallys past is now.

Barry Allen is a forensic scientist, he was one before they were cool and people knew what they were, and he was one before his resurrection, that alone makes him more relavant than Wally West. Barry has also always had some level of relevancy in comics because you can't tell Wally's story without telling Barry's or at least acknowledging him in some cheap way. You are talking about inconsistency when your character is the most inconsistent character in all of comics; Wally West has no constants. I'm already certain that in not even 10 years from now he will have had another costume/alias and social change, unlike Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Superman, Batman, etc.

Wally brings so much more to the table than Barry that to skip him over because Barry was "first" seems asinine.

It's not skipping if Barry was first.

and...

To just assume that this franchise is going to make so many installments that they'll just eventually move on to Wally even though so many action franchises have limped over the finish line when dealing with 2 or more installments makes absolutely no sense.

I said best case scenario. And that would be Johns doing it...which he is.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Great post you said my rebuttal better than I could have


and Kevin Smith: There's James Bond, Kirk, Jack Sparrow, Barney Stinson, Dean Winchester, Hank Moody, Jimmy McNulty, Vincient Chase, that guy from Two and A Half Men, Ryan Kwaten's character on True Blood. All of those (non superhero) guys are popular player characters in successful Tv shows or films
What Im saying is that womanzing (or player) characters have been and are still well received and liked and there are alot of them. I dont see people complain about it.
and how is Wolverine a womanizer in the films?

So......why not do another womanizer? Because there are enough comic characters with that like I said, and again, it doesn't even pertain to Wally when he's written right and certainly not in recent years. I don't think some of you Flash "fans" even know what you want.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Excellent post cereal!

What really makes me feel tired when people say "they should just make a Barry trilogy, and when that's done they can consider Wally" is that it would mean Wally fans will have to wait like 10 years before they can see Wally in action. I would rather have the first movie be Barry with Wally as a prominent supporting character, who discovers his speedster abilities later in the movie. The second movie would be about both of them (mostly Barry) with Barry making the heroic sacrifice late in the movie, and we could end with Wally having a stare down with one of Barry's Flash suits. The third movie would begin afterwards, with Wally deciding to put on the suit and continue the Flash Legacy on his own. Or, alternately (depending on the production timeline) the transition from Barry to Wally could happen during the Justice League movie, similar to what was planned for JLM before it was scrapped.

^^ That post explains perfectly why Barry Allen is better suited for the movie because you have to retool so much to do a Wally West film series right off the bat, you cannot do it as it was done in the comics or even close to it, which is bad for ALL the characters. I am honestly shocked at what some of you "fans" write that you want done with the characters.

 

[flash13]

I know what I want, Wally West not Barry Allen heck I'd prefer a Jay Garrick film to Barry Allen.

 

[flash13]

I guess it's hard to please us Flash fans we're so divided.

 

[Kevin Smith]

^^ WTF that sucks. I want a Barry film but if they don't do Barry my vote definitely goes to Wally.

 

[flash13]

I just prefer Jay's character to Barry, maybe it's because I've been more exposed to him in JSA. Barry though.... while I have several silver age comics I never found him interesting.