The Official Hype Martial Arts Thread

[jfurioso]

Welcome back to the Martial Arts world.

Kata I have to know for my green belt test

Anaku

[Yt]Hii-HI2Gi4s[/Yt]

Gekisai da ichi

[Yt]hN50THCYZ-E[/Yt]

Naihanchi Shodan

[Yt]EEniiQqw0nM[/Yt]

I have trained for over three decades in traditional karate, among other things. My style has more kata than almost any other, and seriously, I consider it at times a serious crutch to actual martial development. I think most people teaching kata do not understand it, misvalue it, teach it badly and make it create bad habits in practitioners. A lot of the original intent was lost thru transmission and oversimplification and the need to find applications that adhere to the core style characteristics. A lot of people talk about the bunkai, but it is usually done in every bit as overformalized, overstylized and stiffly unrealistic as the kata itself. You have people constantly trying to force as blocks movements clearly meant as wrist-hold releases or grappling transitions, all because the people who popularized karate for the masses tried to distinguish themselves from judo by removing much of the overlap techniques and focusing on what was different, often resulting in a painfully diminished art.

I once was asked to assist in a black belt test. The candidate had to execute 12 different kata. Twelve kata. And there was no free sparring. None at all. The instructor just had him do some loose exchange of ONE SINGLE combination with protective gear against me and even so it looked like I could have beaten him up half-asleep without raising from seiza and I was twice older and full of old injuries that are close to crippling me. The candidate was so embarrassed by how ridiculous he looked being unable to even touch fat, limping old me, that he shortly after dropped from practice altogether. That overemphasis on formalized routines are what made the art a joke among many and what makes a lot of practitioners drop away once they no longer feel convinced by the practice.

So practice kata, the same way one should practice all kihon, but keep an open mind and examine and question everything you are doing. Does a yoko uke ever work in combat for you? Or is it better for close-quarters grip releases?

 

[Iceman]

How's everyone's training going? I had a mini disaster early last year when I did my ankle in and had to stop all martial arts altogether. Was just about to rejoin yesterday and then I did my other ankle in while running. (only about 40m away from where I had the original incident - bloody uneven ground)

Will get it looked into properly now. I think I will focus more on boxing, muay thai and BJJ (maybe some MMA) when I come back as I can do all of those in the same place. And then build from there depending how those go.

 

[Iceman]

I have trained for over three decades in traditional karate, among other things. My style has more kata than almost any other, and seriously, I consider it at times a serious crutch to actual martial development. I think most people teaching kata do not understand it, misvalue it, teach it badly and make it create bad habits in practitioners. A lot of the original intent was lost thru transmission and oversimplification and the need to find applications that adhere to the core style characteristics. A lot of people talk about the bunkai, but it is usually done in every bit as overformalized, overstylized and stiffly unrealistic as the kata itself. You have people constantly trying to force as blocks movements clearly meant as wrist-hold releases or grappling transitions, all because the people who popularized karate for the masses tried to distinguish themselves from judo by removing much of the overlap techniques and focusing on what was different, often resulting in a painfully diminished art.

I once was asked to assist in a black belt test. The candidate had to execute 12 different kata. Twelve kata. And there was no free sparring. None at all. The instructor just had him do some loose exchange of ONE SINGLE combination with protective gear against me and even so it looked like I could have beaten him up half-asleep without raising from seiza and I was twice older and full of old injuries that are close to crippling me. The candidate was so embarrassed by how ridiculous he looked being unable to even touch fat, limping old me, that he shortly after dropped from practice altogether. That overemphasis on formalized routines are what made the art a joke among many and what makes a lot of practitioners drop away once they no longer feel convinced by the practice.

So practice kata, the same way one should practice all kihon, but keep an open mind and examine and question everything you are doing. Does a yoko uke ever work in combat for you? Or is it better for close-quarters grip releases?

Great to get this perspective from an experienced practitioner like yourself. I have often suspected that many arts are a bit too kata-heavy and too light on sparring. It seems like some people could do martial arts for years and know all the theory but it would be little use in a live situation even as low intensity as free sparring where you have to apply a range of possible moves as the situation requires (never mind a real self defence scenario).

I also hear about these cumulative injuries that can take their toll in middle/old age and it puts me off a bit as I want to do these things to improve my life without much down side. And I kind of wish the black belt test was more demanding and a consistent standard across all disciplines. Thanks a lot for this input btw, very interesting.

 

[Iceman]

I've recently restarted and hope the injuries are behind me. One class every weekday in either BJJ, Muay Thai or boxing, and then 2 or 3 classes of whichever I prefer on a Sat. I don't expect to do every Sat but the weekday ones are integrated in to my work day so quite easy to stick to.

 

[jolldan]

I keep seeing videos doing the rounds of wing chun “masters” getting ran over by MMA fighters. Apparently there is some Chinese MMA fighter on a mission to expose Chinese disciplines that he says simply don’t work.

Dude must have a death wish to pull this stuff in China lol, remember talking to a couple Chinese students about martial arts they get very defensive of their arts.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I keep seeing videos doing the rounds of wing chun “masters” getting ran over by MMA fighters. Apparently there is some Chinese MMA fighter on a mission to expose Chinese disciplines that he says simply don’t work.

Dude must have a death wish to pull this stuff in China lol, remember talking to a couple Chinese students about martial arts they get very defensive of their arts.

This is nothing new and has been going on with MMA for over twenty years and with any guy that that thinks a system is selling fake goods for literally thousands of years. How many stories with such a premise are the basis of the history of one style or another?

If this had resulted in some death or deaths we would have heard about it. The reputation of Gracie BJJ is practically built on challenge matches going back all the way to the 1960's.

It's a somewhat insoluble proposition. Martial artists from styles that practice full contact sparring claim their adherents get a better sense of real fighting because of their continual honing of technique in sparring sessions and focus on functional methods over esoteric techniques.

Styles that focus on techniques and drills but have less of a true full contact sparring history (like Wing Chun) will say that a sparring session doesn't take into account the full range of techniques, many of which are forbidden in "the ring". I for sure know that Wing Chun guys will point out the finger jab, a very common technique in their art, isn't allowed in MMA, and for good reason, it's not safe, and the Wing Chun guys will say it's not just a flick to the eyes it's about destroying the eyeball.

Thing is... Most traditional styles have a blind spot. Something they specialize in. With Wing Chun it's standing trapping/ close quarter combat. It's lumped in with Southern styles usually, a populous area of China. So it's about fighting in close proximity to others. It's also not a system which focuses on throws, takedowns, locks or ground fighting. If you never DO that you are gonna be at a disadvantage to those that do.

This is why BJJ made such a splash in the 90's. Outside of Brazil no one really knew it and the striking styles felt confident that they wouldn't get taken down because they never practiced that. Boom, grapplers in MMA disabused them of that notion. But then eventually good strikers learned they didn't have to become expert grapplers just understand and train enough to be able to stop the takedown or get out of holds to get back on their feet.

In the end what we really mean when comparing styles is what's better in a street fight and the jury will always be out on that since no one style has all the answers for the range of possibilities in a street encounter. Personally if you are training for self defense and your style isn't teaching you about close quarters (headbutts, elbows, knees), low kicks over high kicks, ground fighting, and the use of and defense against common weapons you will encounter (blades, impact weapons) then you are missing out on a lot.

 

[jolldan]

This is nothing new and has been going on with MMA for over twenty years and with any guy that that thinks a system is selling fake goods for literally thousands of years. How many stories with such a premise are the basis of the history of one style or another?

If this had resulted in some death or deaths we would have heard about it. The reputation of Gracie BJJ is practically built on challenge matches going back all the way to the 1960's.

It's a somewhat insoluble proposition. Martial artists from styles that practice full contact sparring claim their adherents get a better sense of real fighting because of their continual honing of technique in sparring sessions and focus on functional methods over esoteric techniques.

Styles that focus on techniques and drills but have less of a true full contact sparring history (like Wing Chun) will say that a sparring session doesn't take into account the full range of techniques, many of which are forbidden in "the ring". I for sure know that Wing Chun guys will point out the finger jab, a very common technique in their art, isn't allowed in MMA, and for good reason, it's not safe, and the Wing Chun guys will say it's not just a flick to the eyes it's about destroying the eyeball.

Thing is... Most traditional styles have a blind spot. Something they specialize in. With Wing Chun it's standing trapping/ close quarter combat. It's lumped in with Southern styles usually, a populous area of China. So it's about fighting in close proximity to others. It's also not a system which focuses on throws, takedowns, locks or ground fighting. If you never DO that you are gonna be at a disadvantage to those that do.

This is why BJJ made such a splash in the 90's. Outside of Brazil no one really knew it and the striking styles felt confident that they wouldn't get taken down because they never practiced that. Boom, grapplers in MMA disabused them of that notion. But then eventually good strikers learned they didn't have to become expert grapplers just understand and train enough to be able to stop the takedown or get out of holds to get back on their feet.

In the end what we really mean when comparing styles is what's better in a street fight and the jury will always be out on that since no one style has all the answers for the range of possibilities in a street encounter. Personally if you are training for self defense and your style isn't teaching you about close quarters (headbutts, elbows, knees), low kicks over high kicks, ground fighting, and the use of and defense against common weapons you will encounter (blades, impact weapons) then you are missing out on a lot.

Oh yeah im not talking in terms of the Gracie challenge that was obviously massive but more how embarrassing this must be to have it come from a Chinese national. You'd think that Chinese people would sort of understand a lack of respect of their art from a foreigner. But from a local who is attacking it so harshly it must be a different kind of sting.

I would tend to agree, now that doesn't mean you spar full power every day (that's how you end up with a concussion) you can train a technique a 100 times but if you haven't actually put to practice against a real person its not the same. This is why I've never liked point fighting style systems like you see in some Karate tournaments, sure it helps develop speed and accuracy but seen a lot of guys transition from that to MMA who just aren't ready when it starts coming back at them. A lot of is more about just landing the strike first than causing much damage.

Wing Chun does seem to me to be the most popular one that falls the most in to this grey area of stuff that doesn't work to the greatest extent. I can easily believe that thing they claim about the eye attack the problem with that is how are you going to get any chance to use it after you'd been ko'd before you ever got close. Sanshou seems to be the most legit martial art that China has put out and I think it helps that its a combination influenced by many western martial arts.

Im not saying throw the baby out with the bath water but anybody going to a wing chun class in the US or UK should really step back and objectively think if any of this would be of much use in a self defence situation. Much how like Aikido has died out after people realised it was pretty useless in real world situations.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

First scary (that's a machete) and then beautiful. (Turn on the sound BTW to hear the blade scrape the concrete.)

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Rather beautiful sword dance technique.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Western Long Sword technique recreations from Renaissance texts.

 

[Iceman]

First scary (that's a machete) and then beautiful. (Turn on the sound BTW to hear the blade scrape the concrete.)

Proper pros at work.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Let's give it up for the ref here:

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Good points all around in these video break downs.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Function follows form...

 

[Iceman]

Good points all around in these video break downs.

Thanks for these. The speed and intensity of an attack by a bad guy weighing up a situation and only attacking when they are confident they will win against someone completely focused elsewhere will be shocking to anyone who hasn’t experienced it. I thought I’d be a hard target to get like this but I was playing a mobile phone game on the street and had it snatched out of my hand by 2 guys on a motorbike who had mounted the pavement behind me. Lucky they didn’t try anything else like the people in these videos as that first strike when you’re not expecting it is the one that usually dictates everything that happens after.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Matt time during the social distancing era.

 

[jolldan]

Type of dude that will tell you his hands are registered as lethal weapons lol

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Lord do I truly despise martial art charlatans.

Worse... I despise the people that are credulous enough to be taken in.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Lobo]

I had to stop my training due to a re-emerging chronic condition (rheumatoid arthritis which is more painful than you can imagine) that had been dormant a few years, as well as some nagging injuries.

However thanks to a combination of modern medicine, swimming, and yoga more specifically DDPY, I am feeling fairly close to being my old self again. I have now also received the okay from my doctors to begin training again. So I should be back at it in the next few weeks.

A personal favorite Kata



Also wanted to ask the posters here what they think of karate becoming an Olympic sport?

 

[Lobo]

So I got invited to two classes now that I am cleared to go, Panantukan which is a FMA which I believe @KRYPTON INC. is your thing



^The way he starts above we do that excat same drill in Karate

Dirty boxing



I am looking forward to getting back in the swing of things.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Always been fascinated by the martial arts. Done Judo since the age of 11 (more years ago than I'll admit). Did Jiu-Jitsu and some other bits and pieces in the forces many years ago, but Judo's what I've always gone back to.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So I got invited to two classes now that I am cleared to go, Panantukan which is a FMA which I believe @KRYPTON INC. is your thing



^The way he starts above we do that excat same drill in Karate

Dirty boxing



I am looking forward to getting back in the swing of things.

Coolie cool man.

Love me Filipino hand stuff.

As I ALWAYS say though... To get the most out of FMA you gotta train Stick and dagger hard and do so out of both leads, left and right.

The stuff in FMA is so linked it will only compliment everything you do should you enjoy Panantukan and want to explore it further.

I hope you have a good time.