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X-Men The Official MCU X-Men News and Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'MCU X-Men' started by Lily Adler, Sep 9, 2022.

  1. SirStrangefolk Champion of Life

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    Of course. But any significant changes in the adaptation will be seen as a quirk of that version, rather than something that truly represents the character. For example, Kamala's powers in the MCU will be seen as being very distinctly "MCU-Kamala" and not representative of "real Kamala". Such changes to near-immutable characteristics will not just carry over. On the other hand if the character is closer to the source material then small changes can easily carry over back to the original. It's not as much of a stretch for Peter Quill to wear a different outfit, use a walkman, and make more jokes, or for Tony Stark to invent an arc reactor, but it's a lot harder to change something that seems innate to a character like their race especially if they're well established.

    White Nick Fury is still around and played a pretty significant role in a Fantastic Four storyline this year. The fact that Fury Jr. is his own character and they are both there simultaneously is significant here, because it means the original Fury people fell in love with is still around in continuity for them to follow. Had they instead done "white Nick Fury is super duper dead and it's absolutely 100% impossible to resurrect him, but Ultimate Fury swapped universes and is now the main Fury in 616" it wouldn't have worked as well in the long run, because it would've meant the guy who has all that history in continuity with the Howling Commandos, SHIELD, the Avengers, etc. was gone and new Nick Fury wouldn't have had those same connections to the other 616 characters. The way they did it means that the guy who has all that history and those connections is still there, but there's also a character working in SHIELD who looks like the MCU version.

    The problem is, that solution isn't scalable to most other characters. If say, Scott and Jean were race lifted in the MCU how would you introduce those versions to the 616 universe? Are you going to have it so Jean and Scott both independently had secret children a long time ago so there's a black Jean Grey Jr. and a Native Scott Summers Jr.? And would you do the same for Namor, Wonder Man, and other characters? You see how that would pose a narrative problem right? Would you introduce versions of Jean and Scott from an alternate non-616 universe? You could do that, but then if you phase out the originals you're left with the same issue as my Ultimate Fury hypothetical. These new versions would not share continuity with the originals and would essentially be different people who didn't live through iconic storylines as we read them or have the same relationships with the other 616 X-Men that the originals did. This would not go over well if the originals were then gone. Would you rewrite the universe to change it so they were always different? I really don't think fans would be receptive to the idea of changing the continuity of classic stories in this way. You'll most likely just end up with 2 Wally Wests again...
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I really don't think this is likely given my reasons above. DC kind of tried this with Wally but backtracked, despite DC's approach to continuity being far more suited for this kind of change than Marvel's. We also haven't truly seen this with nearly any characters that've been changed at any point. Kingpin, Alicia Masters, Electro, Johnny Storm, Firefist, Heimdall, Ben Urich, Shocker, MJ, Ned Leeds, Flash Thompson, Liz Allen, Ravonna, Kang/Immortus, Namor.. As far as I know they all still look white, right? Same holds for DC characters including even Catwoman who was played by a black actress 3 times with the first one in 1967. Also none of these characters were designed to reflect the experiences of non-white people, so that's still something that only original racial minority characters can provide. I also think that while racebending characters across media can lead to some more fresh stories being possible with these characters, that pales in comparison to the potential fresh new things that can be done by using some different characters altogether.

    1. While racebending may not be 100% neccessary, I do think it's helpful by making diversity available to the characters in the movie with established popularity that are likely to be main characters.
    2. Race and nationality are two very different things. Most of the characters you list here are just white Europeans and Canadians, which do not create more racial diversity in a mostly white-led industry, nor function as representation to non-white people.
     
    #426 SirStrangefolk, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  2. Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    The MCU versions of these characters, by all accounts, will be seen as the "true" versions, with the comic versions being seen as the outliers if anything, due to the MCU's audience reach massively dwarfing the source material. The MCU Kamala Khan will be the definitive Kamala for a lot of people going forward, and the same goes for the X-Men.

    X-Men is likely going to be a 2026-2027 release. Combine that with the fact that most people didn't see Dark Phoenix (it bombed), you have an entire generation of kids growing up with the MCU versions of these characters, as THEIR version.

    The MCU Cyclops will be the *definitive Cyclops for most people.

    Well you could've fooled me, because the character has been all but replaced in every medium that isn't the hard 616 continuity. Cartoons, games, books post-2008 all feature the SLJ version of Nick Fury.

    You ask the average fan on the street, most of them don't even know a white Nick Fury exists, because that version of the character has essentially been phased out of public consciousness in favor of something more MCU adjunct.

    This is what Nick Fury looks like in the newest Avengers cartoon for example
    main-qimg-55f9ad2a43d4e6779755363f4cc5a5e1-pjlq.jpeg

    'Avengers Assemble' (2021)

    You're not gonna find that classic ver. of Fury anywhere outside of the comics nowadays

    Well, that's not really a question for me, or for any of us really, because we're not the ones writing the comics. What's likely gonna happen, is publishing will ask the writers to introduce versions of those characters more in line with the MCU, and the writers will do what they've always done, and come up with some crazy explanation-- that likely will will be contrived, and ridiculous, I'm not arguing it *won't be those things (like Wally West), but the only thing that matters, the only thing Disney cares about, is the end result. As long as there's a Jean Grey that looks like "MCU Jean Grey", everything else is moot.

    The comics essentially exist to supplant the MCU now; the writers are essentially under Feige's thumb.



    Well, a black Shocker, and MCU adjunct versions have actually started to pop up in non-MCU material
    clean (4).jpg
    Screenshot_20221122-205402-743.png

    Heimdall is black is in the newest Avengers cartoon
    Heimdall_(Earth-12041)_from_Marvel's_Avengers_Assemble_Season_2_10.png

    And many of the Eternals have been race/gender bended in the comics
    20221122_220508.jpg

    MCU Namor has just been introduced, but it's likely that future versions introduced outside of the comics e.g. non-616 comic tie-ins, cartoons and games, will feature an MCU adjunct version of Namor.

    The brand synergy goes beyond just the comics. And with Marvel Studios leaning so heavily into the Multiverse angle, it's gonna become very easy for the studio to justify having different versions of characters.

    This is my go-to response whenever someone cites the original Giant-Sized roster as the crowning achievement of representation in comic books.
     
    #427 Marvel united, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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    Are we really gonna compare famous X-Men to characters who didn't appear in blockbuster films before their MCU appearance? Those X-Men characters also appeared in popular cartoons and videogames solely for the X-Men. And Shocker in the Mcu was merely an eXtra.

    I still don't get the stubbornness of wanting diversity in the X-Men movies, yet so unwilling to adapt you know actual POC X-Men characters (that isn't Storm) from the source material. You really want characters who are caucasian X-Men in the comiX for decades, to represent diversity in the movies and then leave the actual poc X-Men in the dungeon once again?
     
    #428 psylockolussus, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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  4. SirStrangefolk Champion of Life

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    I think even if we ignore the representation aspect completely for who will be on the team, I think using any selection that only takes from the 15 or so most popular X-Men (O5 + the half of Giant-Size that remained popular + a few later additions like Kitty, Rogue, Psylocke, & Gambit) as the foundation is also a mistake because continuing to only use them is doomed to lead to stagnation of the franchise.

    We are in a situation where a few characters became popular early on, those characters remained in use because they were popular, then they retained popularity among new readers too because they were used the most, were used because popular, were popular because used, etc. in a cyle for like 50-60 years. Not just among the X-Men but Marvel in general.

    If they continue with choosing to highlight only the few popular ones because they are already popular, and then only those character retain popularity as a result, then the franchise will stagnate because eventually there's just not nearly as much new ground to break as there is with new or previously lesser used characters.

    And I'm not saying we should just throw out those popular characters or anything. Just to make sure other characters also get a more significant spotlight for once, alongside some of the popular ones. If the roster of the first X-Men movie includes 1 non-raceswapped POC character that's not from the 15-20 most popular X-Men and gets enough spotlight to get a significant rise in popularity I'll be happy. Something like Xavier + 4-6 established X-Men + 1 less popular POC character as the new recruit POV character would be a great core cast imo. And then more characters can be introduced in the sequels, or D+, or wherever they fit.

    Who that POV character should be I'm not sure about. I would've said Armor would be the perfect fit, but they made Kamala's powers so similar to hers I'm not sure if she'd be the best choice anymore. If they keep Synch on the team in the comics for a few years they could build him up and he could have good synergy across media but I kind of doubt he'll be staying that long. Jubilee would still be a good fit, although I think she doesn't have as much to gain as some other characters might have since she's probably the most popular out of the ones I'm listing here. One of the Proudstar brothers could potentially also work here as they're in that place of "tightly linked to the early X-Men, but never got much spotlight due to Thunderbird's early death", though the Proudstars could just as easily be part of the established group, as showcased in The Gifted. They might want to use Prodigy due to his potential for crossing over with the Young Avengers. Cecilia Reyes might also work. She would be less of a younger new mutant, but she might work well thematically. She seems like the kind of character who could push the team towards doing more healing, protecting, and community building for the people who need it when the team gets too caught up in fighting villains. I'm not sure what the best option would be here.
     
    #429 SirStrangefolk, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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  5. Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    @SirStrangefolk
    Marvel Studios is going to milk the mythology for years and years to come, in various formats of storytelling-- movies, TV shows, specials etc. There will almost certainly be a place for Synch, Prodigy, Triage, Maggot etc in the future of this franchise.

    There's no reason to rush into those characters when there's already so much ground to cover. Their time will come, EVENTUALLY.
    It's simple-- those characters are unimportant to the mythology, and a footnote in the X-Men's history. I don't have any interest in exploring a character like Synch when so many of the principle characters have barely been explored.

    If anything, this is TRUE tokenism, becuz you're reducing the value of these characters down to their race; the only reason you want them. It comes across as disingenuous lol
     
  6. Joined:
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    Just having a couple of lesser known X-Men be popular in the MCU is what eXcites me. Cecilia Reyes, Sunfire, Thunderbird, Armor, M and Forge (well Forge is well used outside of the comiX, but remains untouched in live action). We haven't had a new popular X-Men in a long while. Marvel Studios has the power to make these c-lister X-Men as popular as Guardians of the GalaXy, Shang-Chi and Eternals. I just don't see why not.
     
  7. Joined:
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    Unimportant to the mythos? With that logic of yours, there wouldn't be a movie for Guardians of the GalaXy, Eternals, Thunderbolts, Blade and Shang-Chi in the MCU. It sounds like you just want them to adapt the popular ips/characters. Marvel Studios is beyond that criteria the moment they gave Guardians of the GalaXy, Shang-Chi and Eternals their own movie.

    Also using lesser known characters in the movies doesn't mean they are rushing. Marvel Studios didn't rush anything by using obscure characters. You are making it sound like Marvel Studios hasn't used any obscure characters and we are forcing them to introduce Sunfire, Cecilia over popular characters. You clearly missed the point. I'm not asking for a full team of D listers but it wouldn't hurt as well to feature a few of them in the first movie.

    As for tokenism, I probably have read more X-Men comiX, than you. You don't post in the comics section and see how I complained about why those POC X-Men like Sunfire, Cecilia, M, Armor are underused and haven't been elevated to higher status. I have alao played Sunfire in X-Men Legends II. I have watched Armor in X-Men Anime. I'm a big Psylocke fan. Its not I just looked at their piX and know nothing about them for you to ACCUSE me of Tokenism. As a long time reader, I'm offended by your insinuations. I know the potential of those Poc characters I have mentioned. I also want more representation. My way of having representation in Marvel movies is actually using poc characters who deserves to be on the spotlight and there's nothing wrong with that.

    You in the other hand, suggesting racebending famous X-Men characters would look like pandering that would just attract unnecessary negativity to Marvel Studios' X-Men. Adapting Sunfire, Jubilee and those other poc isn't going to be received negativity compare to racebending the Professor, the Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean, Rogue, Iceman, Beast, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Gambit, Emma, Kitty and even Angel... you are doing more harm than good.

    Lol that. You cannot even discuss this properly without going low...
     
    #432 psylockolussus, Nov 23, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
  8. SumT Registered

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    I went back after many many days/weeks, and all I see on first look is Flash comic pages, Spiderman, Nick Fury..... is this the X-Men board? its like "bye, I leave" lol
     
  9. JP Smelly

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    I suddenly want Anya Taylor-Joyas Emma
     
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  10. Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    ds4jyx.jpg

    mariah-carey-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you.gif

    @KevinFeige

    (Christmas 2026 that is!)
     
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  11. Joined:
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    I'm like 1 of the 3,000 people who saw The New Mutants. But I don't think I want any of the foX-Men actors portraying another X-Men character in the MCU. Like I would be eXcited if Famke Jannsen, James Marsden, Halle Berry (if they aren't in Avengers: Secret Wars) appear in the MCU but not as another X-Men character.
     
    #437 psylockolussus, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
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  12. Marvel united Omega level Mutant

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    Here's your MCU X-Men trilogy
    VW6VumW.gif
     
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  13. Lily Adler Politically Delicious (she/her)

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    Anyone else excited for the Adamantium vs Vibranium debates when the X-Men come into the MCU?
     
  14. JP Smelly

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    Thankfully no one else did. LMAO.
     
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  15. Mutant 77 Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Despite the PANDEMIC, it grossed $49.2 million worldwide.
    It was aired on DISNEY + and Hulu.
    It was a video hit in UK, and video sales were good in the world.
    So don't worry, you're not alone.
     
  16. BoredGuy Never Did a Popular Thing

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    I'm totally fine with him only being Kevin Bacon in the MCU... although Mephisto wouldn't be a bad choice
    But I hated his Sebastian Shaw, so I'm hoping that character stays dead

    Yeah, I'm sure she could pull it off, but I'd rather see her make the jump as Magik
    New Mutants wasn't great, but she was good in the role, and looks-wise she was absolutely perfect
     
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  17. Shinobi Shaw The Upstart Black King

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    No one asked me but here is my bi-monthly MCU X-Men Fancasting Wishlist

    Cyclops/Scott Summers
    [​IMG]

    Wolverine/Logan
    [​IMG]

    Storm/Ororo Munroe
    [​IMG]

    Psylocke/Elisabeth Braddock
    [​IMG]

    Beast/Hank McCoy
    [​IMG]

    Gambit/Remy LeBeau
    [​IMG]

    Jubilee/Jubilation Lee
    [​IMG]

    Professor X/Charles Xavier
    [​IMG]

    That's the winning team!
     
  18. squeekness The mighty squeek!

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    I concur with your choice for Gambit. :D
     
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  19. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    I’d love her to come over as Magik. I had been hoping we could get Magik in MoM as a student as well as Scarlet Witch learning new areas of magic.
     
  20. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    I think that would be a very popular choice, he could be great.
     
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  21. Shinobi Shaw The Upstart Black King

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    That man has the x factor!
     
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  22. Silvermoth Krakoan native

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    You know we spend so much time here discussing how to handle the x-men but I think we should look closely at what DC is doing.

    then do the opposite of that
     
  23. Mutant 77 Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Yes. The DCEU is a total disaster. They messed it up, totally.
     
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  24. Shinobi Shaw The Upstart Black King

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    [​IMG]

    That whole DC Universe is FUBAR.
     

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