The Official Re-Imagining Clark Kent Thread

[RetroNaz]

I guess my beef with Byrne's Clark wasn't that he should have been depicted as weak or a clutz, but he just seemed too together, too confident. I like Clark humble, although extremely competent. I know he was going for the tougher George Reeves Clark (Reeves Clark was tougher than Byrne's Superman even), but to me he just came off as an ultra-successful yuppie. To me Clark should be socially awkward, very soft and retiring...he should seem humble and constantly be underestimated by the people around him, until he (once again) gets the job done, then they realize they were stupid to underestimate him in the first place. I think you can learn a lot about people from how they treat a guy like Clark.

Just because I don't really want the Chris Reeve Clark for now doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining at times. The one scene with his Clark I really hated was in Superman II after he lost his powers when he got his ass kicked in that diner. When he lost his powers as Clark in "Who Took The Super out of Superman" he kicked Lombards ass and got Lois in the sack. So seeing a powerless Clark as a wimp when he wasn't acting...that pissed me off.

I always thought they sold that angle to show that the sacrifice Clark made had it's consequences.

Probably could have been executed better, or atleast differently - but that's what I'll always remember when I think of the Reeves Clark. He was almost baby like without his powers. Kind of realistic when you put it in context of what was happening on screen.

But I still agree with your post, and don't want to see that version made again.

 

[Vaibow]

I always thought they sold that angle to show that the sacrifice Clark made had it's consequences.

Probably could have been executed better, or atleast differently - but that's what I'll always remember when I think of the Reeves Clark. He was almost baby like without his powers. Kind of realistic when you put it in context of what was happening on screen.

But I still agree with your post, and don't want to see that version made again.

Exactly, in the donner movies, Clark the geek (Daily planet) is only an act, as he grew up, he grew up determined, with will power.
A full grown man, one his size and muscle build, not to mention out look on life and love for lois, should not have gone down as easy as he did infront of her... but, i guess he had no idea of the pain he'd receive or how to 'react' in a situation like that - if anything, he should have lost control and really beat the guy up, as he lost his powers, but in losing those, was out of touch with his own 'human' strength and what others would feel, take.
An angel of him losing it, infront of lois, causing more pain as a human would definitly lead to a better, emotion filled story, where she would confront him for doing that and he responding because he didn't know how to react and all he felt was fear for lois, then she goes... 'ahh how sweet, do me on the flight deck in the fortress'

 

[SuperDaniel]

The one thing i didn`t like about Kryptonite in the Singer movies is that it didn`t shine. I`m used to seeing those great effects in Smallville, showing Clark`s hand being poisoned and all, that i somehow missed on the big screen.

But I agree with Kurosawa regarding Superman losing his powers. In the issue he got married, post-crisis, Superman would still go to fight bad guys and crime, even without powers.

Reeve`s Clark was a coward and weak all around. Hated it.

 

[Daybreak_st]

Yeah i have to agree. I hate the notion that superman is only his powers. It makes him seem extremely weak. As if the only reason he can be super is because he's stronger than everyone else. It would seem to me since he faces off against opponents stronger than him or on equal footing, in the comics, on a regular basis he' d have to be more than just his powers to overcome them. If he's fighting someone as strong as he is it'd almost be equivalent to one human fighting another. It all comes down to will and determination, not necessarily natural strength. I'd like to see him show that "never give up, never surrender" attitude! See that's what makes him superman to me, that he simply will never stop trying, and a scene when he gets beat up by a guy smaller than him, just made him look sad and weak, like without his powers there's virtually nothing special about him.

This is also why i posted a few pages back i think he should have some fighting ability. Not martial arts or anything crazy like that, but some basic fighting ability, like greco roman wrestling, maybe he was on the JV team in smallville before his powers emerged or his dad (Jonathan) was teaching him or something like that. Then he'd have a basic skillset. B/c when you think about it if a regular guy went up against a trained soldier he'd be at a disadvantage, but that's essentially what you have with supes vs someone like Zod or half his other enemies.

 

[Mr. Earle]

When the Superman franchise is rebooted, i'd like to see Batman train him for a month or two like he did in the comics. Not that Superman became a ninja, he just added some moves and techniques to his skillset.

 

[RetroNaz]

It would be cool to see Batman ground Superman with a bit of reality in the reboot.

Explain that life isn't the clean cut, american values life style that Supes would like it to be. That it's infact a messed up, grey area world. Where good people can do bad things and vice versa.

And it'd be nice to see a bit of Superman rub off on Batman. To show Bats that there IS still good in this world, and that it just takes a different point of view to find it sometimes.

 

[not_a_victim]

I thought it was great how they did the kryptonite stuff in Singers movie. But I did hate the fact that not even a whole damn island made of the stuff wouldn't kill him.

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about the Singer movie. The island was not "made of Kryptonite". The substance the island was made of was not pure K. It was MOSTLY crystal from the FOS. The K did not grow, the crystal from the FOS was the one growing.
Luthor wanted the island to grow, but wanted K dispersed through it so Supes would not be able to attack him on the island.
The one small piece of K that Luthor stabbed Supes with did in fact, almost kill him.
I am not defending it, not at all. It was a goofy idea to use. I understand WHY he did it...show Supes using force of will instead of (or along with) his powers, showing the classic "love conquers all" type thing, when Supes lifted the island and tossed it.

 

[not_a_victim]

The one thing i didn`t like about Kryptonite in the Singer movies is that it didn`t shine. I`m used to seeing those great effects in Smallville, showing Clark`s hand being poisoned and all, that i somehow missed on the big screen.

But I agree with Kurosawa regarding Superman losing his powers. In the issue he got married, post-crisis, Superman would still go to fight bad guys and crime, even without powers.

Reeve`s Clark was a coward and weak all around. Hated it.

It's not that Clark was a coward. He was simply shocked at what pain and actual fear was. He hadn't had to deal with it before. If anything, it was Clark feeling real empathy for humans for the first time.

 

[RetroNaz]

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about the Singer movie. The island was not "made of Kryptonite". The substance the island was made of was not pure K. It was MOSTLY crystal from the FOS. The K did not grow, the crystal from the FOS was the one growing.
Luthor wanted the island to grow, but wanted K dispersed through it so Supes would not be able to attack him on the island.
The one small piece of K that Luthor stabbed Supes with did in fact, almost kill him.
I am not defending it, not at all. It was a goofy idea to use. I understand WHY he did it...show Supes using force of will instead of (or along with) his powers, showing the classic "love conquers all" type thing, when Supes lifted the island and tossed it.

Oh okay, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up (I assumed a lot of it was kryptonite given the colour of the island and that he felt the effects once he had landed) - but makes a lot more sense to me now that I think of it with what you have said.

 

[Daybreak_st]

Also remember the crystals take on the properties of their surrounding environment as well. So i believe the "island" was a combo of crystal, kryptonite, and the ocean floor.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The island was made from the combination of various materials, most of which can hurt Superman:
Normal K + Green K + [BLACKOUT]Batmanium[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Daybreak_st]

The island was made from the combination of various materials, most of which can hurt Superman:
Normal K + Green K + [BLACKOUT]Batmanium[/BLACKOUT]

Nice!

 

[RetroNaz]

Throw a little hot rod red on there too

 

[Nightwing1983]

Yes, now whatever studio heads or screenwriters may be reading this, take heed:

It might be time for Superman to be challenged by something that isn't Kryptonite.

It might be time for Superman to battle Metallo or Conduit or any other Kryptonite-based villain.

It might be a nice little throwback to the Byrne years to have Lex Luthor wear a Kryptonite ring.

Whatever the case, I believe that when Kryptonite is in the immediate area of the Man of Steel...

...IT HAS TO HURT AND WEAKEN HIM!!!

 

[RetroNaz]

Kryptonite ring would be a pleasant addition to Lex

 

[Mr. Earle]

Even with the K ring, how the hell would Lex stand in front of Superman? It takes Batman skill and training to do that, and hell that isnt even enough. Leave Lex as the mastermind behind everything.

 

[not_a_victim]

Yes, now whatever studio heads or screenwriters may be reading this, take heed:

It might be time for Superman to be challenged by something that isn't Kryptonite.

It might be time for Superman to battle Metallo or Conduit or any other Kryptonite-based villain.

It might be a nice little throwback to the Byrne years to have Lex Luthor wear a Kryptonite ring.

Whatever the case, I believe that when Kryptonite is in the immediate area of the Man of Steel...

...IT HAS TO HURT AND WEAKEN HIM!!!

+1
I do believe we have had enough of Lex in the movies. Bring on someone physically capable of standing toe to toe with Supes and have a knock-down, drag-out brawl. I want buildings to be leveled, huge craters in the ground, dams burst, and bridges collapsed. Cut to Supes laying on his back, seemingly defeated by his foe...Supes' battered, bloody hands come up, touch the \S/, and we see in Supes' mind flashes of his childhood, teen years, young adulthood, John Kent's death and funeral. Flashes of Lois, Jimmy, and Martha Kent from the past. Both in the real world, and all the people Supes sees in his mind are screaming for "Superman" to get up and continue to fight. Fade to a white light, then a close up of John Kent's face. He, and he alone, uses the name "Clark".
"Clark, I didn't raise you to quit. We never gave up on giving as normal a life as we could, Clark, and you can't give up on everyone else. Look at what he did to you. If he could do this to you, imagine what he could to to everyone else. Get up Clark, this isn't over." I want a supposedly beaten Supes in a ragged costume, blood pouring from his mouth, to stagger to his feet after the bad-guy turns his back on Supes, thinking he has beaten him.
I want the first eight notes of the classic theme to be played at 3/4 speed while the camera pans up from his heels, curving around to the front, framing on the \S/ for a second. Some sort of tremendous power wells up inside him, for one last nuclear sized attack on the bad guy. After about a minute of sound thrashing, the bad guy is on the ground, defeated. Supes picks him up by his hair, and looks him in the face. The bad guy looks at Supes, and makes some statement about/to Supes, and calls him "Superman". Supes brings him in close, face to face, and whispers, so no one else can hear, "My name...is Clark Kent!", turns and hurls him into outter space or the sun, or whatever, so his secret will always be safe...

 

[Daybreak_st]

+1
I do believe we have had enough of Lex in the movies. Bring on someone physically capable of standing toe to toe with Supes and have a knock-down, drag-out brawl. I want buildings to be leveled, huge craters in the ground, dams burst, and bridges collapsed. Cut to Supes laying on his back, seemingly defeated by his foe...Supes' battered, bloody hands come up, touch the \S/, and we see in Supes' mind flashes of his childhood, teen years, young adulthood, John Kent's death and funeral. Flashes of Lois, Jimmy, and Martha Kent from the past. Both in the real world, and all the people Supes sees in his mind are screaming for "Superman" to get up and continue to fight. Fade to a white light, then a close up of John Kent's face. He, and he alone, uses the name "Clark".
"Clark, I didn't raise you to quit. We never gave up on giving as normal a life as we could, Clark, and you can't give up on everyone else. Look at what he did to you. If he could do this to you, imagine what he could to to everyone else. Get up Clark, this isn't over." I want a supposedly beaten Supes in a ragged costume, blood pouring from his mouth, to stagger to his feet after the bad-guy turns his back on Supes, thinking he has beaten him.
I want the first eight notes of the classic theme to be played at 3/4 speed while the camera pans up from his heels, curving around to the front, framing on the \S/ for a second. Some sort of tremendous power wells up inside him, for one last nuclear sized attack on the bad guy. After about a minute of sound thrashing, the bad guy is on the ground, defeated. Supes picks him up by his hair, and looks him in the face. The bad guy looks at Supes, and makes some statement about/to Supes, and calls him "Superman". Supes brings him in close, face to face, and whispers, so no one else can hear, "My name...is Clark Kent!", turns and hurls him into outter space or the sun, or whatever, so his secret will always be safe...

A little too graphic with the blood pouring out of his mouth thing but i like the ending of telling the guy his name then throwing him into space. That's pretty awesome!

 

[Daybreak_st]

I would like to get away from the "we need to see supes all beat up" thing tho, and just go to, "lets see superman kicking butt and taking names". JJ Abrams had it in his script with supes starting off battered and all. I'd prefer to see his battles something along the lines of Incredible Hulk, it never got completely one sided although the villain did get the upper hand.

It happens too often in movies, rocky is notorius for this, of having the hero look like he's defeated then out of no where this inner strength comes and he suddenly beats the villain, it's in practically every martial arts movie too. I just want supes in some epic battles, he takes a beating but keeps on ticking, you know. Anyway this is probably more fit for the "How much action do you want in a Supes movie" thread vs a thread about clark kent.

 

[not_a_victim]

I would like to get away from the "we need to see supes all beat up" thing tho, and just go to, "lets see superman kicking butt and taking names". JJ Abrams had it in his script with supes starting off battered and all. I'd prefer to see his battles something along the lines of Incredible Hulk, it never got completely one sided although the villain did get the upper hand.

It happens too often in movies, rocky is notorius for this, of having the hero look like he's defeated then out of no where this inner strength comes and he suddenly beats the villain, it's in practically every martial arts movie too. I just want supes in some epic battles, he takes a beating but keeps on ticking, you know. Anyway this is probably more fit for the "How much action do you want in a Supes movie" thread vs a thread about clark kent.

I don't want the god-like Supes from 15-20 years ago. I want the de-powered Supes. I want to actually think that someone/thing could defeat him. Physical peril is the heart and soul of an action based comic, and should be the heart and soul of a Supes movie.
Supes not being in any physical danger would be boring.
Supes getting his rear handed to him, then overcoming, gives us the cinematic climax every action movie MUST have.
That's the reason it's used, in your words, "...too often...". It's storytelling 101.

 

[Daybreak_st]

It's cliched storytelling 101. I agree about putting him in physical danger and being powered down, that's why i made the hulk comparison, you have tremedously strong character that is not invulurable and can dish out but also take a beating. What you described is similar to what they did at the end of spiderman one, same thing in every action movie/martial arts movie, simply done to death. Whereas spidey 2 avoided, it so did the batman films, not saying remove danger, or make him win easily but the whole idea of him being beaten and bloody, down for the count then miraculous recovery and bam he wins. That's cliched. Let the villain get the upper hand but unless you're doing something like the death of superman storyline where he actually dies or comes close to dying then i'd avoid going that far with it. Otherwise what do you do for a follow up in the next film? Use the same formula of him almost getting beat then at the end making a come back?

 

[SuperMike335!!]

It's not that Clark was a coward. He was simply shocked at what pain and actual fear was. He hadn't had to deal with it before. If anything, it was Clark feeling real empathy for humans for the first time.

If not a Coward, then a weakling.

After dealing with beings on his level or tougher like Mongol, Darkseid, and the such he should have more than decent enough ability to fight, even if no formal training.

Then there are the regulars who show up even earlier, Parasite, Metallo, etc… Who essentially equalize the playing field by taking Supermans powers or a portion of them, or weakening him with Kryptonite.

At least those kinds of encounters he should have had before losing his powers and getting beat by an old man half his size.

After the kind of fights Superman has been in, or even knowing the pain of Kryptonite, then a man of his size and build should still be in the upper 1% of human fighters.

Sure you could find trained fighters who could beat him if he was powerless, but they should not be 5’10" and older than dinosaur nuts.

Even if he was to lose against a good human fighter, he should still put up a decent fight.

 

[Webhead2006]

well i do agree i dont want to see lex just be the only villain. Though i dont want him cut out entirely. There is alot you can do with him with the corp/political lex, and then down the road have him be phsyical threat to superman with the powersuit if they went that route.

We should get some great super foes like metallo, brainiac, parasite, doomsday, mongul, darkseid, and others where he can go toe to toe in fighting with them.

On the subject of kryptonite it would be great if they make it a rare deal and there is only a certain amount of it around the world(i would go the meteor shower route like smallville, but kryptonite landing in different areas of the world when clark arrived). But dont have it all over the place. As for the look and sound i definately would like how it was in lois and clark and smallville.

 

[Nightwing1983]

I don't want the god-like Supes from 15-20 years ago. I want the de-powered Supes. I want to actually think that someone/thing could defeat him. Physical peril is the heart and soul of an action based comic, and should be the heart and soul of a Supes movie.
Supes not being in any physical danger would be boring.
Supes getting his rear handed to him, then overcoming, gives us the cinematic climax every action movie MUST have.
That's the reason it's used, in your words, "...too often...". It's storytelling 101.

First-of-all, I don't think Superman was any more "god-like" between 1990-1995 than any other time; but even if you mean the way he was between, say, 1958 and early 1986, I think that no matter how powerful you make Superman, you can always create a villain who's more powerful than him. As much as I don''t like Superman II, a lot of people liked it because they did give us three characters who were bad and had those powers.

In other words, you can always put him in physical danger.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

First-of-all, I don't think Superman was any more "god-like" between 1990-1995 than any other time; but even if you mean the way he was between, say, 1958 and early 1986, I think that no matter how powerful you make Superman, you can always create a villain who's more powerful than him. As much as I don''t like Superman II, a lot of people liked it because they did give us three characters who were bad and had those powers.

In other words, you can always put him in physical danger.

Agreed.

That is actually a point I have been trying to bring up for a while.
We do not have to Nerf superman, we can up-power, or sharpen some of the Villains.

I see so much of "so and so" cannot work as a Villain. Why not thing about "what could we do to make this Villain more dangerous".
Even a Villain who cannot take Superman in a fight can be a huge problem if you think about it.Take Toyman for instance. Does not seem fit to even be a Batman villain at first glance.

Now Make him as much of a psycho as the Ledger Joker, combined with being Tony Stark level inventor who puts a "Toy theme" on his WMD’s. He can make some powerful stuff, and some of it does not just have to be things that will ground and pound Superman.
Think of traps like "play-dead-do", essentially grey-gew in a can, that feeds off of the energy spent trying to remove it as it envelops you. Litterally suffocating people like living quicksand. If Superman is thrashing at it, it is feeding off the Energy he expends, turning it into a giant blob like monster.
This could go on a while, as until Superman thinks of something better than heat vision or using punching force or spinning, as it just feeds off of those kinds of things.
Toyman could make a Multi-place hostage situation involving children, hidden in places all over the city with lead lining, where superman cannot find them easily, and there are "toy-full traps", and yes even some giant monstrous versions of toys that can fight Superman.
Those are just some ideas in how to make him work, as a villain.

This strategy could be used on Superman's entire rogues gallery. Where some see pointless Villains, I just see a Villain who needs a pep talk and a little imagination.