Superman II The Official Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut Discussion/News Thread!!!!

[3 Dev Adam]

Supaman was supposed to turn back time in Superman TWO, not ONE. So, S2 IS a restoration of Donner's vision.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

But, frankly, Supaman turning back time to ressurrect Lois packed way more emotional punch.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Supaman was supposed to turn back time in Superman TWO, not ONE. So, S2 IS a restoration of Donner's vision.

But Donner's vision was NOT to have Superman I and II both end the same way. He used the turn-back-time ending in Superman I. So using it in II, even though that was the original plan, simply doesn't work. It would work in either film, but not both.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

But Donner's vision was NOT to have Superman I and II both end the same way. He used the turn-back-time ending in Superman I. So using it in II, even though that was the original plan, simply doesn't work.

That's correct, so it's about time to make a STM: THE DONNER CUT!t:

 

[Kevin Roegele]

That's correct, so it's about time to make a STM: THE DONNER CUT!t:

The existing film is his cut. And it's perfect.

 

[MST3KPIMP]

I thought the origonal script had Superman reversing time after Zod killed lois, that was supposed to be the big emotional climax.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

I thought the origonal script had Superman reversing time after Zod killed lois, that was supposed to be the big emotional climax.

In STM, it works cause Supes basically FAILED to save Lois. And Chris' acting made the scene EXTREMELY powerful.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Just to clarify something, some people have said, "WHY would Superman need to give up his powers to be with Lois, if he can have sex with her before losing his powers?" And Lester obviously agreed with them.

Point is, he doesn't just give up his powers, he gives up the responsibility of looking after the entire world so he can devote his life to one person.

Also, people have asked why Clark returns to the diner at the end of the film, if he's turned back time and none of the events have happened. It's because the bully is still a bully and needs to be taught a lesson. Having said that, Clark telling the owner he's been working out makes no sense.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Here's something; if Superman turned back time at the end of the original movie, then he never pushed a missile into space. So how could the missile have destroyed the Phantom Zone?

 

[3 Dev Adam]

Here's something; if Superman turned back time at the end of the original movie, then he never pushed a missile into space. So how could the missile have destroyed the Phantom Zone?

Maybe the missile was out of the Earth's orbit when he rotated it, thus it wasn't affected by... well, not that you can really turn back time by rotating a planet backwards!

 

[jrd550]

right, I think they kept the same ending that was used in STM which of course doesn't make any sense...

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Bare in mind, it's the same ending, but not the same footage, if you see what I mean. There are a few shots of the earth spinning backwards with Supes as a white streak, but apart from that, it's all brand new footage - and it is very good. That atleast makes it easier to take.

 

[MST3KPIMP]

Hey if I get the HD-DVD verrsion of the Donner cut will that include a regular dvd version? I figure it might be be smarter if I should ever get a HD system.

 

[Bester]

Here's something; if Superman turned back time at the end of the original movie, then he never pushed a missile into space. So how could the missile have destroyed the Phantom Zone?

We didn't see what he did differently after he turned the clock back in S:TM, but he needed only to stop the 2nd missile (the one that ultimately killed Lois). So, he probably still threw the 1st missile into space (not knowing that it would destroy the PZ).

 

[BH/HHH]

Lets ignore the plot holes, etc, no need to analyze it will be here all day. Lets just enjoy the films for what they are.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

We didn't see what he did differently after he turned the clock back in S:TM, but he needed only to stop the 2nd missile (the one that ultimately killed Lois). So, he probably still threw the 1st missile into space (not knowing that it would destroy the PZ).

I always assumed Supes reversed time to the point before any missiles were launched....that would make the most sense.

Anyway......after comparing both, I have to say the Lester version is the better one.

 

[EXCELSIOR]

When I saw the film at the screening - my review is HERE I did notice a few plot holes...

You must all keep in mind that Donner was shooting one huge film that became TWO films at once, something that was almost never done... so they were making up a lot of rules as they went along. The original shooting script was intended as ONE film... the Slakinds seeing $$$ decided to split them into two films during production... and concentrate on STM and leave S2 for a later date.

The split left NO real ending for the first film, Donner said he lifted the ending from the end of that 500+ page Puzo screenplay and moved it to the new ending of STM... and said they would deal with a NEW ending for S2 when they would go back and finish S2.

As it turned out Donner never got the chance to do his NEW ending for S2... he only shot what he was able to shoot... which he claims was about 75-80% of S2.

This new Donner Cut, is full of holes, because that missing 25 or-so % does NOT exsist... so he is forced to use many shots & scenes from Lester's version that just don't mesh with the original Donner/Puzo version - so they seem out of place and create a few plot holes! So he is left with using or re-using the 'spinning of the world back' ending - because that was the ending he was shooting at the time before the film was split into two whole films - they all knew they had NO "ending" for STM while shooting and were hoping to come up with an even more spectacular ending for S2!

It all gets very confusing, and even during the Q&A discusion Donner & CO had trouble remembering details after all these years...

In the end, the film is a note-worthy piece of history... never has a filmmaker been allowed to go back to a film almost 30 years later and finish it after being replaced with another director! - We are lucky to see it because he did shoot all that footage... if he hadn't we would never be talking about it now!

Is this a better film than Lester's? Thats hard to say, the Lester version works because he had the ability to shoot a 'complete' re-worked screenplay - Donner did not... I highly recomend that any Superman fan rent or buy the Donner cut - it's a must have for any collection!

On a side note, Salkind sat right behind me at the screening, and he is as bitter now as he was then, to me he was visably upset a number of times that evening, (i'm guessing because he won't be making any money on this venture) and grumbled a few times durring the screening, he left the theater after the end credits then returned in the middle of the Q&A only to yell to the panel that he liked the Lester version better! - What a guy! HEH

 

[3 Dev Adam]

The Donner cut must be purchased by any Superman fan worth of its salt. Plotholes and all.

 

[Spoarz™]

^ Definitely man, despite the plotholes, I thought the movie was just superb, I loved it.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

^
It is also a great piece of cinematic FANTASY. And I love fantasy films.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

On a side note, Salkind sat right behind me at the screening, and he is as bitter now as he was then, to me he was visably upset a number of times that evening, (i'm guessing because he won't be making any money on this venture) and grumbled a few times durring the screening, he left the theater after the end credits then returned in the middle of the Q&A only to yell to the panel that he liked the Lester version better!

Sounds like second-rate d!ckhe@d behavior to me....and that's being mild.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

Sounds like second-rate d!ckhe@d behavior to me....and that's being mild.

I disagree. It's not second-rate. Salkind is a FIRST-RATE ********.

 

[MST3KPIMP]

Yipeee! The video store I work at got the Donner cut on Wends so I'm at home "testing" it to be sure it's free of defects. ) I'm really enjoying it altough I'm amazed how weak the heat vision effect is in the new opening scene... Is it that hard to make decent heat vision. I think I'm gonna want a mega cut of Supes 2 usiing nearly all the availible Donner & Lester photage while still perserving the storyline. Somebody get to work on that ok?

 

[MST3KPIMP]

arrgh!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Yipeee! The video store I work at got the Donner cut on Wends so I'm at home "testing" it to be sure it's free of defects. ) I'm really enjoying it altough I'm amazed how weak the heat vision effect is in the new opening scene... Is it that hard to make decent heat vision. I think I'm gonna want a mega cut of Supes 2 usiing nearly all the availible Donner & Lester photage while still perserving the storyline. Somebody get to work on that ok?

There's also loads of cool footage not used in either version, such as people around the world watching the mayhem on TV, and the, "He was just a boy!" scene.