DC Television The Penguin on HBO

[Invader Joker]

Huh…

Spoiler

Kind of an odd choice considering there’s not a huge age difference between those two actors.

Spoiler

Strange. He’s obviously styled to look younger so that’s clearly what it is, but they’re so starkly different. Doesn’t matter at all to me, but not what I would have expected

I really don't think you need to spoiler tag that lol It's not like Falcone being recast is gonna be a plot twist or anything, it's just what it is. Another Katie Holmes/Terrence Howard situation.

Also I think it boils down to the fact that John Turturro was busy filming Severance at around the same time The Penguin was shot, so I honestly think this is just a straight-up recast. If they were to show the Falcone body in this show, it'd probably be Mark's, if they show any recent footage of him, it'll be Mark, if they put flashbacks that are closer to when the movie takes place, it'll still be Mark, etc. I doubt it's them going "Oh we need a younger Falcone so we'll cast a different actor" because Mark is contemporaries with John, it's just "John was unavailable so we had to recast".


Also we literally saw younger Falcone in The Batman and it was still John so, no matter which was it's sliced, it's a recast.

Anyway I'm very very disappointed because I felt that John brought a very specific energy to the Falcone role that I can't possibly imagine Mark Strong being able to capture at all. He was slimy in a way that I don't really associate Strong with. So this is honestly a huge bummer for me, personally.

 

[J.Drangal]

What?! Strong doesn't play Clayface passing as Mr.Freeze?
I'm shocked.

On a more serious note, I wonder how big the flashbacks are, because I doubt they have Strong acting for only 30 seconds... or maybe these are really meaty scenes.
That said, Strong now has some relationship with DC, so I can also imagine that it wasn't hard to convince him to come to the rescue when Turturro was unavailable.
Very curious about the voice, that's what I really enjoyed about this version.

 

[elgaz]

Strange casting in one way, but in another way I can see it working. Strong is notably obsessive about his performances so I’ve no doubt he’ll nail the voice and mannerisms.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Insane that IMDb was right about something for once, but certainly not unwelcome. The idea keeps growing on me the more I look at the photo since Strong could easily pass for Carmine 20-something years ago.

I still would've preferred him for Rex Calabrese, but this is obviously meant to flesh out Sofia and maybe Alberto, so I kinda get why they did it, especially since John was probably unavailable. Also very relieved that I can finally breathe again knowing he's not Clayface!

 

[Eddie Dean]

He is Clayface disguised as Carmine Falcone

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I really don't think you need to spoiler tag that lol It's not like Falcone being recast is gonna be a plot twist or anything, it's just what it is. Another Katie Holmes/Terrence Howard situation.

Also I think it boils down to the fact that John Turturro was busy filming Severance at around the same time The Penguin was shot, so I honestly think this is just a straight-up recast. If they were to show the Falcone body in this show, it'd probably be Mark's, if they show any recent footage of him, it'll be Mark, if they put flashbacks that are closer to when the movie takes place, it'll still be Mark, etc. I doubt it's them going "Oh we need a younger Falcone so we'll cast a different actor" because Mark is contemporaries with John, it's just "John was unavailable so we had to recast".

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Also we literally saw younger Falcone in The Batman and it was still John so, no matter which was it's sliced, it's a recast.

Anyway I'm very very disappointed because I felt that John brought a very specific energy to the Falcone role that I can't possibly imagine Mark Strong being able to capture at all. He was slimy in a way that I don't really associate Strong with. So this is honestly a huge bummer for me, personally.

I don’t 100% disagree, Strong is also a great actor but his energy is totally different from Turturro’s who was my favourite antagonist in The Batman. He is absolutely styled as ‘younger’ in the one photo we have of him which makes me heavily suspect he’s in flashbacks that take place a significant period of time in the past. Him just being Turturro in that picture from The Batman means literally nothing here - that’s just normal movie continuity hiccups.

Strong is only seven years younger than John but he still does look younger, in that photo specifically you can tell that’s the intent. I suspect if John was available he’d be playing the role but I also feel like the flashbacks with Mark are decently far away in the past.

 

[Invader Joker]

I don’t 100% disagree, Strong is also a great actor but his energy is totally different from Turturro’s who was my favourite antagonist in The Batman. He is absolutely styled as ‘younger’ in the one photo we have of him which makes me heavily suspect he’s in flashbacks that take place a significant period of time in the past. Him just being Turturro in that picture from The Batman means literally nothing here - that’s just normal movie continuity hiccups.

Strong is only seven years younger than John but he still does look younger, in that photo specifically you can tell that’s the intent. I suspect if John was available he’d be playing the role but I also feel like the flashbacks with Mark are decently far away in the past.

My thought process is that while yes, that specific photo is probably Falcone when he was significantly younger, I also don't really expect that the thought process here is to make us buy that Mark Strong morphed into John. So I think that any picture of Falcone we see in the show is gonna be Mark, if we see a body it's gonna be Mark, if we get flashbacks closer to the present (which isn't unlikely, especially given the dynamics with Alberto and Sofia) it's gonna be Mark, etc. I fully expect that when Matt talks about it he's gonna talk about it in terms of being a recast, not them specifically casting for a younger Falcone when they probably wanted to use John.

For them to cast an actor as recognizable as Mark also makes me think Falcone is probably gonna be all over the show.

 

[J.Drangal]

Everybody wants this show to be "fire", but come on...

 

[SwordOfMorning]

My thought process is that while yes, that specific photo is probably Falcone when he was significantly younger, I also don't really expect that the thought process here is to make us buy that Mark Strong morphed into John. So I think that any picture of Falcone we see in the show is gonna be Mark, if we see a body it's gonna be Mark, if we get flashbacks closer to the present (which isn't unlikely, especially given the dynamics with Alberto and Sofia) it's gonna be Mark, etc. I fully expect that when Matt talks about it he's gonna talk about it in terms of being a recast, not them specifically casting for a younger Falcone when they probably wanted to use John.

For them to cast an actor as recognizable as Mark also makes me think Falcone is probably gonna be all over the show.

I suspect it’s somewhere in the middle where, yeah, there’ll be flashbacks a bit closer to The Batman - maybe like a decade or so in the past to the Falcone kids youths - but that is still technically him playing a younger version along with being a recast.

Strong is a big name but he also strikes me as the kind of actor you could get for a handful of big scenes to increase their impact. I also don’t think ‘believes he morphs into John’ matters, that stuff being believable feels borderline irrelevant to me.

 

[WatchProtect]

I'm not sure if this is indeed a Recast, I would think we'd see Carmine's funeral so we'll see who the body looks like 🤣

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm not sure if this is indeed a Recast, I would think we'd see Carmine's funeral so we'll see who the body looks like 🤣

It's just gonna be Mark Strong.

 

[Eddie Dean]

My thought process is that while yes, that specific photo is probably Falcone when he was significantly younger, I also don't really expect that the thought process here is to make us buy that Mark Strong morphed into John. So I think that any picture of Falcone we see in the show is gonna be Mark, if we see a body it's gonna be Mark, if we get flashbacks closer to the present (which isn't unlikely, especially given the dynamics with Alberto and Sofia) it's gonna be Mark, etc. I fully expect that when Matt talks about it he's gonna talk about it in terms of being a recast, not them specifically casting for a younger Falcone when they probably wanted to use John.

For them to cast an actor as recognizable as Mark also makes me think Falcone is probably gonna be all over the show.

The Penguin is a continuation of The Batman. Carmine Falcone dies in The Batman. Any scene of Carmine Falcone will by definition have to be a flash back. He is playing a younger version of Carmine Falcone, who was played by John Turturro, meaning that Mark Strong is playing the younger version of John Turturro. Make like how say, in Lord of the Rings, Ian Holm plays the young Bilbo in the flashbacks, but in The Hobbit, young Bilbo is played by Martin Freeman, who is playing a younger version of Ian Holm.

 

[Invader Joker]

The Penguin is a continuation of The Batman. Carmine Falcone dies in The Batman. Any scene of Carmine Falcone will by definition have to be a flash back. He is playing a younger version of Carmine Falcone, who was played by John Turturro, meaning that Mark Strong is playing the younger version of John Turturro. Make like how say, in Lord of the Rings, Ian Holm plays the young Bilbo in the flashbacks, but in The Hobbit, young Bilbo is played by Martin Freeman, who is playing a younger version of Ian Holm.

This same type of logic can lead you to say "Harrison Ford is playing an older General Ross in Captain America New World Order" or "Maggie Gyllenhaal is playing an older Rachel in TDK" lol.

 

[Invader Joker]

Also, while I suspect the flashbacks will go far back at places, I'm also expecting there to be some flashbacks that go really really recent up to when the movie takes place. I also don't expect we'll see a single image or acknowledgement of John as Falcone in the show, ever. It's just a recast, call it what it is.

 

[Sawyer]

The thing is, even with just a six year age difference, I could probably buy Mark Strong as being a bit younger than he actually is, and I could buy Turturro being a bit older, too.

So if the situation is that Falcone was supposed to be 70 in The Batman, and what we see of Strong is Falcone around the time of the Wayne murders, then I could probably buy that. It’s just a bit surprising is all.

 

[Invader Joker]

The thing is, even with just a six year age difference, I could probably buy Mark Strong as being a bit younger than he actually is, and I could buy Turturro being a bit older, too.

So if the situation is that Falcone was supposed to be 70 in The Batman, and what we see of Strong is Falcone around the time of the Wayne murders, then I could probably buy that. It’s just a bit surprising is all.

Nope. Don't buy it. The two men don't even look similar. It's just a recast and when Matt talks about it he'll talk about it as a recast.

 

[Eddie Dean]

This same type of logic can lead you to say "Harrison Ford is playing an older General Ross in Captain America New World Order" or "Maggie Gyllenhaal is playing an older Rachel in TDK" lol.

This is correct, they are indeed playing those characters, because this is a work of fiction. It would be incorrect to say that Harrison Ford is not playing an older General Ross or Maggie Gyllenhaal is playing an older Rachel. Because they are.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Nope. Don't buy it. The two men don't even look similar. It's just a recast and when Matt talks about it he'll talk about it as a recast.

Mr Joker, what scenes could Carmine Falcone have in The Penguin that are not flashbacks, considering the character is not alive in the present of the show?

 

[Invader Joker]

Mr Joker, what scenes could Carmine Falcone have in The Penguin that are not flashbacks, considering the character is not alive in the present of the show?

He could have flashbacks up to 1-5 years before the show takes place, which I actually think is ridiculously likely. Hell, there could be flashbacks that take place right when The Batman takes place. We also may see a body, recent pictures of Falcone, etc. I don't think every single Falcone flashback is gonna be set 20 years in the past.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Invader Joker, I hate to tell you this, but if the flashback takes place one year earlier, that would count as him playing a younger version of John Turturro as Carmine Falcone, who would be one year older during the events of The Batman.

 

[Invader Joker]

Invader Joker, I hate to tell you this, but if the flashback takes place one year earlier, that would count as him playing a younger version of John Turturro as Carmine Falcone, who would be one year older during the events of The Batman.

We'll have to see when Matt inevitably gets asked about it and he talks about it as just a recast (which is beyond obvious it's what it is) then. But I think there's a fundamental difference between casting Robert DeNiro as a younger Don Vito in Godfather Part 2 (a role that Marlon Brando couldn't have possibly played for obvious reasons) vs. trying to get Turturro back for this show but not being able to, hence having to recast.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I just want to make sure you understand that if he plays Carmine Falcone at any points before The Batman or unless WB goes back and digitally removes John Turturro from The Batman and inserts Mark Strong into it, Mark Strong will be playing a younger version of the character Carmine Falcone in The Penguin, which is cannon to The Batman, so if you where to arrange the series in chronological order, Mark Strong would be playing the younger version of John Turturro in many scenes.

 

[Invader Joker]

I just want to make sure you understand that if he plays Carmine Falcone at any points before The Batman or unless WB goes back and digitally removes John Turturro from The Batman and inserts Mark Strong into it, Mark Strong will be playing a younger version of the character Carmine Falcone in The Penguin, which is cannon to The Batman, so if you where to arrange the series in chronological order, Mark Strong would be playing the younger version of John Turturro in many scenes.

It's a recast.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Indeed, they have recast the character, but since The Penguin and The Batman exist in the same continuity, and John Turturro plays the character in The Batman, and Mark Strong will play the character in events before The Batman, he is playing a younger version of John Turturro. This is similar to how the character of Dumbledore was recast with Michael Gambon after the death of Richard Harris, and yet it would be correct to say that Michael Gambon is playing an older version of Richard Harris in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Ok, this raises a good question Invader Joker: in the Fantastic Beasts series Jude Law portrays a younger version of Albus Dumbledore. Therefore, would it be more correct to say he is playing a young Richard Harris or a young Michael Gambon? The correct answer is he is playing a young Richard Harris, and also a young Michael Gambon, because they are all portraying the same character.