The President Trump Thread

[Donner]

No I did not. I'm not being dramatic. Maybe some people aren't being dramatic enough. For him to actually say that is not only offensive, it's anti-Semitic.

But that isn't what he meant at all. Based on what I read, this is what he was trying to say;

"I love this question, if simply because so many people have misinterpreted Kerry's meaning within his statement. He is stating that if Israel commits to a one-state solution, they will have to choose between being democratic and representing all of the people within the country, or remaining a state in which only Jewish people are represented within the government. That is what he meant by his statement, not that a country cannot combine Judaism and democracy."

From: http://politics.stackexchange.com

 

[DeadPresident]

Some people seem to conflate Israel with Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

"Israel can either be Jewish or democratic. It can't be both."

Maybe Kerry was responding to Netanyahu's antics like this...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rabs-voting-in-droves/?utm_term=.0d969498fb2d

And I'm still waiting for an apology for this crap. The guy lies like it's a 2nd language.

[YT]nN1HOVLf4C0[/YT]

And then when the Iran deal came around he dusted off the same playbook only this time substituting Iran for Iraq laying it on thick with the same "Iran nuclear bogeyman" bullsh** he's been spouting the last 25+ years. "OMG they said Death to Israel for the umpteenth time. I think they really mean it this time guys!! No deal!!" Our jackass bought-and-paid-for Congress clap like trained seals hanging on Bibi's every word while AIPAC spends millions of dollars to get those 30 second TV ads over the American airwaves to scare our dipsh** citizens to death lol. I'm honestly sick of our leaders bowing down to kiss Israel's ring. It's about time someone stood up to their BS.

 

[TheVileOne]

Israel certainly needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

What exactly did Kerry say that was so horrible towards Israel?

Israel left the Gaza strip and settlements in 2005, and we got Hamas as a result. It was an international disaster.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Some people seem to conflate Israel with Benjamin Netanyahu.

When he's making himself prominent on our soil, in our Congress you can see why.

 

[Donner]

Israel left the Gaza strip and settlements in 2005, and we got Hamas as a result. It was an international disaster.

Yeah and your country just voted in Donald Trump.

Sometimes, people make really stupid ass decisions.

Also, Israel retained control over Gaza’s borders, airspace, coastline, infrastructure, power, import-exports, etc. Not much for leaving.

 

[TheVileOne]

But that isn't what he meant at all. Based on what I read, this is what he was trying to say;

"I love this question, if simply because so many people have misinterpreted Kerry's meaning within his statement. He is stating that if Israel commits to a one-state solution, they will have to choose between being democratic and representing all of the people within the country, or remaining a state in which only Jewish people are represented within the government. That is what he meant by his statement, not that a country cannot combine Judaism and democracy."

From: http://politics.stackexchange.com

How about Kerry explain the meaning rather than some apologist on stackexchange? After he and Obama threw Israel under the bus.

 

[MaceB]

Umm, we've given Israel an unusually large amount of charity as well as legislated in their favor for the past several decades. This conflict has been going on and on and on and on, with no signs of stopping. Our support of Israel puts our own diplomatic efforts in jeopardy in the Middle East... and it seems to hinder a peaceful outcome, as it makes us look like we are choosing sides.
It's within our economic, moral, and diplomatic interests to support a one-state solution... as the Israelis say they are in favor of as well.I love how telling Israel that they shouldn't breach on their agreements is now being anti-semitic. Like, saying "no," suddenly makes us racists...along with the rest of the world which has chastised these settlements as a war crime for many years. We are by-far, Israel's most influential ally. They need to stop taking all of our good-will while at the same time instigating aggression in the middle east.
Why do they deserve any of our funds anyway? These settlements are basically against the Geneva convention. As an ally, we promise to have their back if they come under attack. That's enough.

 

[Donner]

How about Kerry explain the meaning rather than some apologist on stackexchange? After he and Obama threw Israel under the bus.

How about you don't jump to conclusions? He doesn't need to explain himself if people would think rather than react. The fact that your government continues to give Israel billions every year is a problem. Any time Israel is criticized, people pull out the anti-Semitic card. You can't have a real discussion about issues when differing opinions are shot down as racist without even looking at the whole picture.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah and your country just voted in Donald Trump.

Sometimes, people make really stupid ass decisions.

The decision was made in the interest of peace and repairing Palestinian relations and with the interest of protecting Israel's future security. Instead, Hamas took over and things only got worse.

You say Israel should be taken down a peg or two. If anything, they should be receiving more pegs. Sick and tired of people blaming Israel for the problems of the Middle East when the truth is that Israel is one of the few actual beacons of hope and prosperity of that region.

 

[Donner]

That's delusional at its finest.

 

[TheVileOne]

How about you don't jump to conclusions? He doesn't need to explain himself if people would think rather than react. The fact that your government continues to give Israel billions every year is a problem. Any time Israel is criticized, people pull out the anti-Semitic card. You can't have a real discussion about issues when differing opinions are shot down as racist without even looking at the whole picture.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. He does need to explain himself. That's not a problem.

Like the other side doesn't do the same thing all the time? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Kyle]

The decision was made in the interest of peace

Wait... Are you actually saying voting Trump was made in the interest of peace? People tossed an entire group/s of people under the bus in the interest of peace? I can tell you this certainly does NOT feel like peace living in Trump's world, it feels like living in fear and occupied territory.

 

[TheVileOne]

Umm, we've given Israel an unusually large amount of charity as well as legislated in their favor for the past several decades. This conflict has been going on and on and on and on, with no signs of stopping. Our support of Israel puts our own diplomatic efforts in jeopardy in the Middle East... and it seems to hinder a peaceful outcome, as it makes us look like we are choosing sides.
It's within our economic, moral, and diplomatic interests to support a one-state solution... as the Israelis say they are in favor of as well.I love how telling Israel that they shouldn't breach on their agreements is now being anti-semitic. Like, saying "no," suddenly makes us racists...along with the rest of the world which has chastised these settlements as a war crime for many years. We are by-far, Israel's most influential ally. They need to stop taking all of our good-will while at the same time instigating aggression in the middle east.
Why do they deserve any of our funds anyway? These settlements are basically against the Geneva convention. As an ally, we promise to have their back if they come under attack. That's enough.

Obama's administration failed to shut down Hamas and only fostered the growth of ISIS.

That's delusional at its finest.

I know my truth.

 

[TheVileOne]

Wait... Are you actually saying voting Trump was made in the interest of peace? People tossed an entire group/s of people under the bus in the interest of peace? I can tell you this certainly does NOT feel like peace living in Trump's world, it's living in fear.

No I am saying Israel's decision to leave the Gaza Strip and abandon the Jewish settlements there was made in the interest of peace and improving relations with the Palestinians.

I am saying Obama and Kerry threw Israel under the bus on their way out the door when for the last eight years, they have failed on every level to help broker or find any type of long-term solution in the Middle-East.

 

[Kyle]

Ah, took the original 'decision' part as referring to Trump being the decision. Oddly/frighteningly some people do think that way from what I've seen around FB.

 

[DeadPresident]

When he's making himself prominent on our soil, in our Congress you can see why.

That's true for a lot of international leaders, but happens specifically to Netanyahu because of how charged and controversial a topic Israel is. Other nations and leaders have been playing the US for chumps with a lot more gusto lately, Russia and Iran primarily. The Middle East have been using Netanyahu's bad behavior as a bargaining chip against Europe and America for some time now, it's embarrassing that it still works.

 

[Donner]

Obama's administration failed to shut down Hamas and only fostered the growth of ISIS.



I know my truth.

Wow. This is just ignoring history.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Unless Israel dismantles the settlements in the West Bank, the two-state solution is unworkable. Netanyahu doesn't believe in the two state solution; he has openly said so in interviews before he became prime minister.

I admire what Obama did, but I question if it will change anything.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Sick and tired of people blaming Israel for the problems of the Middle East when the truth is that Israel is one of the few actual beacons of hope and prosperity of that region.

Well, if you're not an Arab. As far as they're concerned, Israel is just Western colonialism dressed up.

 

[DeadPresident]

The two state solution is unworkable because the Palestinians don't want it either. Netanyahu is only one component of a large cluster**** of a problem. Even if Israel stop developing settlements and went back to pre-1967 borders it wouldn't be enough for the Palestinian Authority.

And as much as people like to forget this very pertinent fact, almost 2 million Arabs reside in Israel and have citizenship and participate in a democratic country with a functional economy, more than can be said for most other dumps in the region. If Israel suffers so do those 2 million (primarily Muslim) Arabs. Most critics of Israel just want Israel's nose to be bloodied because it gives them some kind of self-righteous moral arousal - they don't give a damn about the conditions of any of its citizens; Jews, Muslims or Christians.

 

[DeadPresident]

Well, if you're not an Arab. As far as they're concerned, Israel is just Western colonialism dressed up.

This is horse **** though, the average Arab citizen's quality of life is far better in Israel than any surrounding area. Arab Israelis don't really seem to complain very much about their conditions and aren't being persecuted the way some would be in other areas.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The two state solution is unworkable because the Palestinians don't want it either. Netanyahu is only one component of a large cluster**** of a problem. Even if Israel stop developing settlements and went back to pre-1967 borders it wouldn't be enough for the Palestinian Authority.

You say that, and you may be right. But we have no way of knowing that, because Israel has been building those settlements for decades. It's hard for the Palestinian moderates to accomplish anything as their people are being actively ethnically cleansed.

 

[Thundercrack85]

This is horse **** though, the average Arab citizen's quality of life is far better in Israel than any surrounding area. Arab Israelis don't really seem to complain very much about their conditions and aren't being persecuted the way some would be in other areas.

Actually, there's a lot of complaints. They're second class citizens. But yes, the standards of living are higher than in much of the Middle East, that much is true. I was, however, thinking more the Palestinian Arabs living under military occupation and in refugee camps throughout the region, which far outnumber those with Israeli citizenship (i.e. 80% or more).

 

[MaceB]

Obama's administration failed to shut down Hamas and only fostered the growth of ISIS.

Again, we give TONS of support to Israel: economic, diplomatic, and militarily. Much more than our typical ally. We are under no mandate, no obligation to support every opinion/ policy that Israel supports. In fact, the fact that you are asserting that the administration is anti-semitic because we don't completely bend over, is a huge disservice to us and them.
Meanwhile, Obama stated very clearly that Israel had a right to defend itself against Hamass. And it's not our fight to fight. Look, we made a good decision that we shouldn't involve ourselves with foreign military affairs unilaterally. Involving others from NATO or the UN increases the moral superiority of our side, it lessens our own risk, it decreases the amounts of fatalities due to an influx in soft power, and it increases the chances for success. Why is our responsibility to defeat Hamas alone? We gave Israel intelligence, we gave them financial support, we backed them up politically. Seriously, nothing short of unilaterally blowing the bejesus out of THEIR enemies would be enough to suit you? What about their other allies. By most sensible measures, we did a lot for them at that time.
And after all we've done for them, without getting a darn thing in return, we're anti-semitic because we agree with the international community that they shouldn't increase settlements in Palestinian territories captures in 1967? We didn't even vote against them; we just chose to not use our veto power for goodness sakes. We're Israel's friends... but that doesn't mean they are our masters. We've done a lot for them and we're under no obligation to do more.

ISIS is a big issue in itself, and I wouldn't combine them. In my opinion, ISIS was created by the power vacuum that Bush created in Iraq. When Bush organized the withdrawal, ISIS was a natural consequence. And we have fought ISIS every step of the way... despite the fact that they post much more of an existential threat to Israel than to us.

I know my truth.

There's no such thing. Truth is truth - for everybody. You don't get your own.