The Dark Knight Rises The Reese Enigma

[ronny]

As we are all aware, there has been plenty of talk of The Riddler being the main villain of the third Nolan Bat-film.
And some have gone so far to say that we may have already seen The Riddler, in the form of Coleman Reese - the obnoxious bean counter who tries to blackmail Bruce Wayne.
This idea has been discussed before, it's one I'm very interested in. But more than that I am interested in hearing the reasons - the real reasons why people pass off the idea.
Here's a sample of some of the naysayers from a previous thread on the subject:

God I thought Reese was so annoying. Everytime he shown up on screen he got on my nerves. I wanted somebody to actually kill him when the Joker gave them 60 minutes to do so. But then we may of not gotten Nurse Joker pissed off that the Hospital wasn't blowing up. LOL

This film was epic beyond the definition - to follow it up with "Oh remember that guy, who was named after a candy company? Well he's still pist about being thwarted in his attempt to black mail Bruce Wayne out of Ten Million Dollars a year for life has become the Riddler, and plans to...um...to um...er...oh hold the city for ransom or else he'll tell everyone that Bruce Wayne is batman. only to have bruce wayne once again thwart the guy at the end by showing the city that he's not the batman by means of some super cleaver way..."

PFFFFTTTT

I seriously doubt Reese will be the Riddler. He seems like a ***** to me.

And lookie here, here's what someone said just today.

I don't need to see Coleman Reese ever again. He looked like the milquetoast son of Booger from Revenge of the Nerds.

So then, a lot of hostility towards the idea. But why? Let me ask you two questions if you don't think Reese is Riddler material:

1. Was the acting poor?

2. Did you hate the character?

It just seems that people pass off the Reese question because they hated the guy. All the while unable to understand that, and listen carefully...
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HATE THE RIDDLER!
So, why dismiss the idea just because he is exhibiting the same character traits as the character from the comics?

But let's just say that Reese is The Riddler. Do you believe that Josh Harto would do a good job in the role?
Don't you think it's an encouraging sign that with so little screen time he's been able to annoy and enrage so many moviegoers?
Or, back to one of my original questions, is that because you thought the acting was poor?

So, in conclusion, do you think Reese would be a good Riddler? And if not, why not?

 

[TheWrathOfGod]

Well seeing how no one knows what the premise for the third movie will be, its all in the air. Joshua Harto is a fine actor, but most people (myself included) feel that he's not that well known of an actor to be playing a major role in a new film. I think its funny that he's also in Iron Man.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Who was he in Iron Man?

 

[TheWrathOfGod]

Who was he in Iron Man?

Some sort of analyst I think.

 

[Ekricket]

What is Joshua Harto up to now, at the same time Nolan is filming his new movie?

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Hmmm interesting theory - I think that the Riddler was one of the very few people who actually knew Batman's true identity, but would not divulge it out of some sort of honor. Maybe he resents the fact that he was threatened and has a mental block about directly revealing Batman's identity, but in some fashion takes on a persona (Mr Reese = mysteries)that tries to get Batman to admit publicly who he is. I thik it has been pointed out before that he can't just walk around Gotham anymore as an ordinary person - everone knows he knows who Batman is, and as Batman is a criminal now Reese is hiding information that can help the police.

Let's also keep in mind that Reese knows that Bruce saved his life. He could feel some kind of obligation to 'clear' Batman's name, possibly at the price of killing the GCPD officers, like Ramirez, who were involved in setting up Harvey and Rachel's kidnappings. It's a bit of a leap from blackmail to murder, but at least we know Reese isn't clean.

I think there are some good possibilities out there, if the powers that be decided to go this route. I'm intrigued by the idea of a story structure that isn't just "good vs. bad", and having the GCPD hunting Batman could set up some interesting dynamics that we haven't seen on screen before. (I also think there could be a good, similar, story with the Joker trying to 'protect' Batman from the police).

 

[GregComicFan]

Two things...

1) of all the brainstorming over Batman 3, I think Two-Face returning is more likely than Coleman Reese returning. Of course, I think NEITHER will occur... but I think Reese's character is finished even more than Two-Face's... he won't be back in Batman 3. Bruce saved his life... Reese acknowledged this with a slight nod... his story is done... he won't cause any more trouble.

2) Is any one else sick of villains trying to figure out the hero's identity? To be honest, I'm glad the Joker was more concerned with CORRUPTING Batman than figuring out his identity, because, frankly, a villain whose sole goal is to "unmask the hero" is boring and not dramatically compelling at all (since, for the audience, there is no mystery involved in the villain achieving the goal... the audience already knows Bruce is Batman, Peter is Spiderman, etc. so why would we be invested in the villain's goal?)... I think a true villain wouldn't give a crap who Batman is... Batman is their adversary with or without the mask... this is what made the Joker so compelling... and I think Riddler should be written the same way... sure, he could maybe want to know Batman's identity, to further his goal, but merely figuring out Batman's identity cannot be his sole goal or sole plan on destroying Batman... it's just lame to hear a villain say "I will destroy Batman by revealing his identity to the world"... wow... blah... boring... I prefer a more twisted purpose, ala Joker corrupting Batman, for Riddler.

 

[ronny]

Bruce saved his life... Reese acknowledged this with a slight nod... his story is done... he won't cause any more trouble.

There was no slight nod. He looked shocked, sure. But there was no moment of understanding or respect.

 

[Mandalore464]

Bruce saved his life... Reese acknowledged this with a slight nod... his story is done... he won't cause any more trouble.

Well maybe HE won't. But...

- How can you say that you know Batman's identity on tv without offering some proof to at least the producer of the show who would want to make sure you're not some off-his-a*s glory-seeker, or worse, some kind of prankster who will ridicule your show announcing that Paris Hilton is actually Batman when asked live on tv? That would mean that at least someone else knows Wayne's secret now. Who? If the show host was the only other to know and the Joker killed him, good for Wayne. If not...

- How can you say such a thing on tv and not become the Mafia's number one target when you fail to reveal your secret? Surely the Mafia would want some retribution from Batman who's taking them apart one after the other. The least they could do is attack the guy who knows his identity.

- How can you say such a thing on tv and not become the police number one target when they decide to go after Batman after he is accused of murder? If they really mean to do the job, surely there is a cop out there who will have seen Reese's little show on tv and will have the idea to get him and catch Wayne.

- Reese was an accountant working for Wayne Enterprise, and here he is claiming on tv that he learned Batman's identity. Don't you think that any smartass knowing who he was working for (Other Wayne Enterprise employees, cops...) would at least contemplate the idea that there may be a link between Batman's apparently unlimited resources and high-tech equipment and Wayne Enterprise? Of course that wouldn't be enough to prove that Wayne is Batman (Even though that's the conclusion Reese jumped to, for whatever reason), but suspicion would arise, enough to compromise Wayne Enterprise, and enough to have people wonder "How come Wayne reappeared in Gotham the very week Batman was first seen?".

Reese's plot in TDK is very secondary, but it always seemed to me that it was bound to raise many questions in the third film. Now that someone has claimed to know the Batman's identity, every cop, criminal, and attention ****e in the city will want to know if there's any truth to his claims and either brand Reese a liar or discover in turn that Wayne is Batman.

The least they could do in the third one is say that Wayne had him publicly announce that a/ He was joking or b/ He was mistaken, and send him off to a desert island with a big paycheck where no one will ever be able to find him. But you certainly don't claim to know Batman's identity live on tv and then just get away with it because the show's cancelled.

 

[xforce]

Reese's plot in TDK is very secondary, but it always seemed to me that it was bound to raise many questions in the third film. Now that someone has claimed to know the Batman's identity, every cop, criminal, and attention ****e in the city will want to know if there's any truth to his claims and either brand Reese a liar or discover in turn that Wayne is Batman.

The least they could do in the third one is say that Wayne had him publicly announce that a/ He was joking or b/ He was mistaken, and send him off to a desert island with a big paycheck where no one will ever be able to find him. But you certainly don't claim to know Batman's identity live on tv and then just get away with it because the show's cancelled.

First off, I think Gordon also knows, or at least strongly suspects Wayne to be Batman, but won't follow up until he "has to know officially".

Also, they could claim Reese was mistaken by having him proclaim somebody to be BM and then being proven wrong publically.
There are enough fake Batmen running around in the movie to make this seem plausible.

I also like the "island idea", this could be easily handled via a dialogue sniplet between Wayne and Alfred or Fox.

On the other hand, the issue of people knowing of BM's identity was silently dropped before:
in BB, not only Ra's Al Ghul must have known, but also at least some of his henchmen, most of whom weren't killed.
Yet, this was never mentioned in TDK, which worked fine.

So, the cleanest way though is to dismiss Reese altogether or have him disappear and return as Riddler, as was suggested in the other thread (Mr. Reese = Mysteries).

 

[Majik1387]

Umm, not sure where you got the idea that you're supposed to hate the Riddler, but it sounds as stupid as the idea of Reese being Nolan's Riddler.

Movies have these things called 'minor characters' and Reese happened to be one of them. Now is his story done? Most likely, though I'm sure he can be written into the story of BB3, but seeing as no one cared for the character and he didn't seem to have any impact on TDK at all, I don't see the need for his return; Especially as the Riddler.

 

[Mandalore464]

Also, they could claim Reese was mistaken by having him proclaim somebody to be BM and then being proven wrong publically.
There are enough fake Batmen running around in the movie to make this seem plausible.

Yeah I mentioned this option, but that doesn't mean that no one else knows -or guessed- the truth (Those who knew who Reese worked for that may have made the connection like his co-workers, family, and those who Reese may have talked to to credit his story before he unveiled it live on tv like the host of Gotham Tonight and maybe even the whole team behind it, etc...)

On the other hand, the issue of people knowing of BM's identity was silently dropped before:
in BB, not only Ra's Al Ghul must have known, but also at least some of his henchmen, most of whom weren't killed.
Yet, this was never mentioned in TDK, which worked fine.

Except Ra's never went up on a roof to shout "I know who Batman is", so of course, no one was gonna go and bother him or his men to learn the truth, since nobody knew that they know. The problem with Reese is that everybody knows he claimed to know, and with the amount of people that are after Batman now (cops, criminals, journalists...) everybody's gonna go knock on Reese's door to have him confess, if only to see if he lied or not.

So, the cleanest way though is to dismiss Reese altogether or have him disappear and return as Riddler, as was suggested in the other thread (Mr. Reese = Mysteries).

I don't like the idea of this guy becoming Riddler. He's not even good with numbers (Had to re-check Wayne's numbers to notice discrepancies in the way money is spent at Wayne Enterprise), and he's an annoying little jerk. I would expect someone with more charisma and finesse to be the Riddler.

Or yeah, they could dismiss him and have Wayne and Fox, or Alfred, mention that they sent him off to a remote location to make sure no one would get to him.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

The character was not nearly intelligent, smug or cool enough to be the Riddler. Seriously, I don't know what planet you come from, but every batboard I've ever been to loves the Riddler, just check out his appearance in the recent King Tut confidential art, people just couldn't get enough of ol' Eddie. No, I'll definitely take Edward Nigma over wannabe Reese anytime.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

The character was not nearly intelligent, smug or cool enough to be the Riddler. Seriously, I don't know what planet you come from, but every batboard I've ever been to loves the Riddler, just check out his appearance in the recent King Tut confidential art, people just couldn't get enough of ol' Eddie. No, I'll definitely take Edward Nigma over wannabe Reese anytime.

Maybe that's true of the classic Edward Nashton/Nigma version of the character we've seen in the comics for so long, but that's probably not the Riddler we'd get onscreen.

Nolan adapts these characters and their histories to fit his vision for the movies. And that's fine. It's worked well for the franchise, and I think he's earned the creative benefit of the doubt. If he and company think that Reese becoming the Riddler would work in this world, then I'd be interested in seeing that. I personally like the idea of the next featured villain springing out of the Gotham that's already been created in Begins and TDK, and using Reese would work in that sense.

Do I think it'll happen? No, probably not. But the fun of these boards is in the speculation.

 

[batman44]

As one poster already said, the Coleman Reese character isn't smart enough to be the Riddler. I mean the guy was owned big time by Lucious Fox with his lame attempt at blackmail.

 

[ronny]

Umm, not sure where you got the idea that you're supposed to hate the Riddler, but it sounds as stupid as the idea of Reese being Nolan's Riddler.

The Riddler is an arrogant bastard with a massive inferiority complex.
You're telling me that we're not meant to hate him?
How is my point stupid?

 

[Majik1387]

The Riddler is an arrogant bastard with a massive inferiority complex.
You're telling me that we're not meant to hate him?
How is my point stupid?

And the Joker is a psychopathic, murderous sociopath, but you see everyone loving him on here. No one has hated the way you're insinuating that people should be hating the villain of the Riddler. And it's a stupid point because it's being semi-hypocritical. You're supposed to hate Riddler but not Joker? Or Two-Face? Or any of the other Bat-Rogues?

 

[Eddie Nashton]

Umm, not sure where you got the idea that you're supposed to hate the Riddler, but it sounds as stupid as the idea of Reese being Nolan's Riddler.

Movies have these things called 'minor characters' and Reese happened to be one of them. Now is his story done? Most likely, though I'm sure he can be written into the story of BB3, but seeing as no one cared for the character and he didn't seem to have any impact on TDK at all, I don't see the need for his return; Especially as the Riddler.

Exactly how I feel about the idea.

 

[Bathead]

OMG ****. Reese will not be the Riddler! Nolan has respect for the franchise. Just because he has red hair doesn't mean he's the Riddler. ****.

The only place Riddler ever had red hair was BTAS. Reese having red hair is irrelevant in any case.

 

[batman11]

The only place Riddler ever had red hair was BTAS. Reese having red hair is irrelevant in any case.

I guess Batman Forever doesn't exist for you.


t:

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

As one poster already said, the Coleman Reese character isn't smart enough to be the Riddler. I mean the guy was owned big time by Lucious Fox with his lame attempt at blackmail.

when that happened, I

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

I guess Batman Forever doesn't exist for you.


t:

the riddler had a pink hair color in BF.

edward, on the other hand....

 

[Bathead]

the riddler had a pink hair color in BF.

edward, on the other hand....

Exactly. Riddler's hair was a pink dye job, Nygma had dark brown hair.

 

[ronny]

And the Joker is a psychopathic, murderous sociopath, but you see everyone loving him on here. No one has hated the way you're insinuating that people should be hating the villain of the Riddler. And it's a stupid point because it's being semi-hypocritical. You're supposed to hate Riddler but not Joker? Or Two-Face? Or any of the other Bat-Rogues?

Why are you being hostile? I think you need to reconsider your tone and then ask your question again.

OMG ****. Reese will not be the Riddler! Nolan has respect for the franchise. Just because he has red hair doesn't mean he's the Riddler. ****.

Same question.
Frankly, I'm a litte disappointed in some of you. To behave so immaturely and, with no provocation, start throwing out insults is really beneath you.
All I really wanted was clarity.
Which I haven't got yet. I mean, why this reaction to the mere idea of Reese being The Riddler?
Again, is it because there was something wrong with Harto's acting? Or are you just looking for absolutely any reason to dismiss the idea?

 

[batman11]

the riddler had a pink hair color in BF.

edward, on the other hand....

Exactly. Riddler's hair was a pink dye job, Nygma had dark brown hair.

Ehhh, I guess you're right. In certain lighting, it looks very orange, but yeah, it is more of a pink in reality.