The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Scene Gwen Stacey Died

[Super Jim]

^ First, when Gwen and Peter have the whole "This is bigger than you" discussion it's during one of their dates. Peter has his collar up and Gwen is wearing a cream or yellow jacket without a scarf. This makes this dialogue from the Chinatown date scene:

In trying to figure out the timing of things we do have some things to go by.

We are almost sure that the scenes with Gwen wearing her death shroud are from the end of the movie. This appears to be when she will help Peter fight Electro and when I've argued Goblin will grab her, go up to the clock tower (or whatever it is), drop her to facilitate an escape, Peter jumps down, web shot, and snap...

We know that that the scene at the bridge and the whole car battery/web shooter thing is from the same timeframe:

That would mean the two date scenes (Chinatown and Bazaar) are prior, right?

So, which is first?...

Well, we know that Harry will be introduced towards the start of the movie in order to give Peter enough time to confront Aunt May and investigate his father's hidden lab, likely all before things get out of hand with Electro and Goblin.

So this does point to the graduation scene being early in the movie, which would mean June.

That would point to the snowy cemetary scene being towards the end, effectively 6 months later.

Now logically we would think that the holiday bazaar date (if that's what it is) is towards the end of the movie, prior to the cemetary and Electro/Goblin scenes, but the dialogue in the trailer points to this one being right after (same day) the Aleskei armored car scene.

Also, we have reports of a possible break-up during the Chinatown date scene, but who knows if that's correct.

What does make sense, again due to the clothing, is that the Chinatown date scene, and the "this is bigger than you" dialogue, happens around the same time as one of the Peter and Harry scenes. In the scene where Harry is showing Peter that Oscorp has had him under surveillance Peter is wearing what appears to be a dark (possibly black) tee-shirt under a heavier black button up shirt or jacket. Here's the pic:

This seems to match what Peter is wearing during the Chinatown date scene:

My best guess is that once Peter is shown that Oscorp was spying on him he would go right to Aunt May and have the whole "I once told you" dialogue, which will lead to her telling or giving something to Peter, which would lead to the undergroun railroad scene, and this would lead to the Chinatown scene where Peter tells Gwen what he knows and found, which leads to the "This is bigger than you" dialogue!

Also, the "I chose this" dialogue if from a later scene where Gwen is wearing her death shroud, so that one is about Electro and stuff...

 

[Picard Sisko]

I knew it… Richard Parker was part of the underground railroad!

lol jk, but I think you're doing a good job at piecing together the movie.

 

[spider_shadow]

My best guess is that once Peter is shown that Oscorp was spying on him he would go right to Aunt May and have the whole "I once told you" dialogue, which will lead to her telling or giving something to Peter, which would lead to the underground railroad scene, and this would lead to the Chinatown scene where Peter tells Gwen what he knows and found, which leads to the "This is bigger than you" dialogue!

Agreed.I think you figured out part of a movie,lol...

 

[Batdetective]

Greetings everybody, I am new to this forum.
Lately, I have been really sad and depressed about thinking that Gwen Stacy could eventually die. There are three reasons to this

1) I like the character very much, to me she is the best female character we've seen in a long time (Pepper Potts from Iron Man is runner up)

2) Emma is my favorite actress of all times. Because not only she is gorgeous, she has talent. She's not like those pretty faces who are only there to show their body and to run in slow-motion and the audiance seeing her ass giggling. (*cough*Megan Fox in Transformers *cough*)

3) This situation highly reminds me of something I have dealt with in the past and just thinking about it makes something explode inside of me. But that's more personal.


Now the interesting part comes. People have tried to figure clues that hints Gwen's death. But why has nobody been searching for clues that hints that she'll lives?
People take for granted that she will die. But... Wouldn't that be too easy?

I am a screenwriter (in French, this is why my post here probably contains some spelling mistakes, English is my second language) and I have been studying this art and science very carefully. There are couples of laws in that domain and couples of ''tropes'' you have to avoid to make sure your story is great.

First off, I would point out the reasons as to WHY Gwen Stacy should die?
1. She dies in the comic, so we have to respect the source material
2. We need to let Mary Jane be the love of Peter's life
3. It's gonna be shocking and disturbing

Now I'm going to take down every of those arguments.

1. She dies in the comics. Yeah. Now what? Tell me the year of that comic book? 1973, I believe.
Marc Webb and his team took the artistic decision to make a movie (The Amazing Spider-Man 1) with Gwen as the love interest. The question has been rising for years ''Will she face the same fate as in the comics?''
Why would it have to be this way? It's an artistic decision. Introducing a character you have developped for TWO whole movies for the sole purpose of wanting to recreate a story that is 40 years old where she dies is... Sadiscim.
Look, comics and movies are different, it's nice to see filmmakers showing us their vision of a mythology. If in Webb's eyes Gwen is Peter's true love, I'm perfectly ok with that. I respect that artistic decision. But I'm against the fact of making two movies about her, only to kill her off at the end.
It's just not right.
Lots of people's favorite comic book movie is The Dark Knight, yet the inspiration from the comic is really hard to see. The geeks will point out at Batman Long Halloween, but we're still very far from that storyline. The reason why this movie was so great, it's because Chris Nolan and his team made an artistic decision again. They recreated The Joker. They recreated Harvey Dent. It's all been rewritten. There's a saying that says ''The Dark Knight isn't a comic book movie. It's an epic action movie with Batman in it''
I agree with that. It's the vision of someone's else. Not the comics.
As opposed to this, some people didn't like the sequel The Dark Knight Rises. And that movie had far much to do with the comics. The batbreaking scene was phenomenal BUT the Talia reveal was pure garbage. Geeks expected to see Miranda as Talia because of the many references about League of Shadows, but in the end, we were disappointed. Now, why did they include Talia in that movie? Her role is so silly it's laughable. I remember when Bruce said he thought Bane was Ra's Al Ghul's son... and I was like «Wooah!».
That would have been great. Well, it would have been better than Talia. You see? I wouldn't have minded seeing something different from the comics. Something that is surprising and that makes you go «Wooah!»
But when they choose to apply something directly from the comics, it sometimes turns out to be anticlimactic. So predictable, so boring.

This is what I feel about seeing Gwen dying. Marc made the choice of including Gwen in his story. Having movies all about her just to see her be killed all in the name of purist rooting for an outdated comicbook repels me. This is not only very wrong but also shows terrible writing skills and mediocre artistic thinking.

2. Mary Jane is Peter's true love? I don't think so.
The most popular? Yes, that's for sure.
Rewind the clocks (no puns intended) 40 years from now. If the Green Goblin hadn't killed Gwen and if Spidey actually saved her and she had lived up to this day, do you think Peter would be with Mary Jane?
I heard the reason why the writers have decided to kill Gwen is because they wanted Peter to stay ''young'' and not having him be married.
What if she was alive? I'm sure they would be together.
How many clues were dropped in the comics that Peter STILLS loves her? Way too many. It doesn't mean he doesn't loves Mary Jane deeply, but if he had the chance to go back in time and save her, he would. If you ask him what his perfect life would be like, he would be with Gwen.
You never EVER forget your first love.
In real life, even if you are happily married with children, do you ever think about what your life would be like if you were still with that first love? I know you do.

3. The dying scene of a main character is going to be shocking, disturbing but awesome? No. Well, not when you make a movie about Spider-Man.
Why would you kill a main character in the first place? So plot can evolve, so the character can feel grief and everything blah blah blah character developpement, blah blah.

Would the story of ASM2 be better if Gwen died? Does a character have to DIE to make a good story? I don't think so.
Would it be great to see Andrew's acting skills by mourning his beloved girlfriend? Not to me.
While these moments are very intense and deep, I don't think they are relevant.
I'll tell you, I'm sick of this concept about wanting to make every movies, comic book movies or not, darker and grittier. This is not a good idea, because not all heroes have to be dark to be great.
In Man of Steel, they tried to make Superman darker. The film itself is great, but the fight with Zod... The end... You know...*SNAP*.
It was shocking! Was it necessary? No.
It made the whole movie more dark and gritty, but I didn't feel great about it. I didn't feel like it was the REAL Superman. This is not what Superman is about. I felt cheated.

And I would feel cheated if they killed Gwen just to make Spider-Man darker. SPIDER-MAN WAS NEVER DARK, HE WILL NEVER BE!!! GET OVER IT!
Why is Spider-Man not dark? Because he has already lost everything he loves. In the comics, he lost Uncle Ben, too many friends, Gwen, Captain Stacy, he lost his marriage to the devil (oh, what an horrible storyline!!!)

Did ALL OF THAT **** have contributed into making him more edgier? NO.
The reason why Spider-Man cannot be dark is because he already has lost everything he cares about BUT he still sticked to all the morals and codes he started with. He never became a Batman-like hero. He never will.
He DOESN'T change.
And that's why people love him. Faithful towards himself, he belives in his morals.

Killing Gwen would NOT make him darker. It will make him sad, yeah, but will it help develop the character? No. Spider-Man doesn't become a dark version of himself. And I'm not talking about comics, I'm talking about the character in itself. The essence of it.

If you seriously think that killing Gwen Stacy so that the movie can be more mature, more ''cool'' and more accurate to the source material is a good idea... I think you don't know a **** about Spider-Man.
This is NOT what Spider-Man is about.

Why can't the hero finally be happy? People say they're tired of cheesy happy-ending. But I, for one, am tired of depressing and bittersweet endings. Heck, even the Dark Knight trilogy had an happy ending.
Why can't you just leave that ****** ass comic book from the 70s out of the way and let the movie crew be creative about their vision of Spider-Man?

And the message. THE ****ING MESSAGE BEHIND IT! Captain's dying wish ''Stay away from my daughter''. Peter breaks that promise and *tadaa* she is killed.
Isn't that... Disgusting? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too ironic. Waaaaaaaaay too ''I ****ing told you, you ******ed prick, it's your fault Gwen has died!''
This doesn't show that Peter has to learn to take responsability. To me, it just shows that Karma is a pure *****. The echo of that irony is... disgusting. Yes, I'm using that word again. It's too brutal, it's too... too much.
The moral of that story would be so sad, depressing and heartbreaking that it wouldn't be any good.
In French, the title of the movie is ''The Amazing Spiderman 2: A Heroe's Destiny''
Is it a heroe's destiny to have their girlfriend killed? Is it a heroe's destiny to be all alone?
This is not destiny. This is tragedy. Heroes don't have to be all tragic and stuff.
Having your love killed because you didn't respect a promise is a consequence so harsh and heartwrenching it kills all the idea of choice.
If you're a hero, your girlfriend will be murdered. So you have to choose, love or being superhero?
Why can't it be both?
Realizing that the life of your loved ones can be in danger if you're a superhero IS a moral.
You can create the scene about it and it's going to be damn good.
Spider-Man and Gwen at the end of the movie, after a near death experience.

Spider-Man: This is my path, these are the risks of living with me. Your life is in danger as long as you're by my side. I do love you Gwen, more than anything in the world, trust me. But I can't put your life at risk, and I won't stop being Spider-Man. This is my destiny.

Gwen: I love Spider-Man, but I love Peter Parker even more. I cannot imagine what my life would looks like without him. I choose to be with you, I'm aware that my life is threathened, but it's worth it. I know you will be there for me, I know you will always save me. Your life isn't easy and I fear you might die someday, but I'll be there with you, to support you. Whatever the cost. I'm willing to be by your side, always.

Captain Stacy appears behind Gwen, Spider-Man sees him.

Captain (to Peter): I didn't like the idea of having my dauther around you, at first. But tonight you've proved that you will do whatever you can to protect her. She loves you, Peter and she'll never let go of you. I wanted you to stay away from Gwen, but things have changed. I know that if there's a man that can protect her, it's you... The Spider-Man.
Take care of my daughter, Peter, treat her great love her everyday of your life. I trust you, my friend.


Isn't that a great ending? It might be sentimental, but is it good? It proves that love can grow despite monsters around. Having George Stacy changing his mind about Spider-Man being with Gwen is a nice touch and incredible character developpement. Because having Spider-Man saving Gwen and SHOWING he CAN save her can convice the Captain that Peter is perfect for Gwen. Her guardian. The man that will protect her, more than he could.
I feel this fits more into the spirit of the Spider-Man mythology.

I say let Gwen live. If I wanted to see her die, I would read the books. I'm here to observe an alternate view on Spidey's mythology. I wanna see something different.
Spider-Man doesn't have to be dark to be good. People love him for what he his already. It wouldn't be any better by adding drama and useless heartwrenching scenes only there for shock value.
Plus, it would be ultra predictable.

All the clues, the trailers, the green outfit. Why did they put all that in the trailer? They are not stupid, they know we know comics.
I think it's there only to create debate. But it's so obvious I think it can't be true.
Bluff?
Double bluff?
Triple bluff?

It's hard to say. All I know is that I will spoil myself when the movie comes out in foreign countries. I just can't go on without knowing.

But I'm calling out PLEASE, DON'T KILL HER, IT'S NOT WORTH IT!
This is not what Spider-Man is about.

 

[Airnick]

Greetings everybody, I am new to this forum.
Lately, I have been really sad and depressed about thinking that Gwen Stacy could eventually die. There are three reasons to this

1) I like the character very much, to me she is the best female character we've seen in a long time (Pepper Potts from Iron Man is runner up)

2) Emma is my favorite actress of all times. Because not only she is gorgeous, she has talent. She's not like those pretty faces who are only there to show their body and to run in slow-motion and the audiance seeing her ass giggling. (*cough*Megan Fox in Transformers *cough*)

3) This situation highly reminds me of something I have dealt with in the past and just thinking about it makes something explode inside of me. But that's more personal.


Now the interesting part comes. People have tried to figure clues that hints Gwen's death. But why has nobody been searching for clues that hints that she'll lives?
People take for granted that she will die. But... Wouldn't that be too easy?

I am a screenwriter (in French, this is why my post here probably contains some spelling mistakes, English is my second language) and I have been studying this art and science very carefully. There are couples of laws in that domain and couples of ''tropes'' you have to avoid to make sure your story is great.

First off, I would point out the reasons as to WHY Gwen Stacy should die?
1. She dies in the comic, so we have to respect the source material
2. We need to let Mary Jane be the love of Peter's life
3. It's gonna be shocking and disturbing

Now I'm going to take down every of those arguments.

1. She dies in the comics. Yeah. Now what? Tell me the year of that comic book? 1973, I believe.
Marc Webb and his team took the artistic decision to make a movie (The Amazing Spider-Man 1) with Gwen as the love interest. The question has been rising for years ''Will she face the same fate as in the comics?''
Why would it have to be this way? It's an artistic decision. Introducing a character you have developped for TWO whole movies for the sole purpose of wanting to recreate a story that is 40 years old where she dies is... Sadiscim.
Look, comics and movies are different, it's nice to see filmmakers showing us their vision of a mythology. If in Webb's eyes Gwen is Peter's true love, I'm perfectly ok with that. I respect that artistic decision. But I'm against the fact of making two movies about her, only to kill her off at the end.
It's just not right.
Lots of people's favorite comic book movie is The Dark Knight, yet the inspiration from the comic is really hard to see. The geeks will point out at Batman Long Halloween, but we're still very far from that storyline. The reason why this movie was so great, it's because Chris Nolan and his team made an artistic decision again. They recreated The Joker. They recreated Harvey Dent. It's all been rewritten. There's a saying that says ''The Dark Knight isn't a comic book movie. It's an epic action movie with Batman in it''
I agree with that. It's the vision of someone's else. Not the comics.
As opposed to this, some people didn't like the sequel The Dark Knight Rises. And that movie had far much to do with the comics. The batbreaking scene was phenomenal BUT the Talia reveal was pure garbage. Geeks expected to see Miranda as Talia because of the many references about League of Shadows, but in the end, we were disappointed. Now, why did they include Talia in that movie? Her role is so silly it's laughable. I remember when Bruce said he thought Bane was Ra's Al Ghul's son... and I was like «Wooah!».
That would have been great. Well, it would have been better than Talia. You see? I wouldn't have minded seeing something different from the comics. Something that is surprising and that makes you go «Wooah!»
But when they choose to apply something directly from the comics, it sometimes turns out to be anticlimactic. So predictable, so boring.

This is what I feel about seeing Gwen dying. Marc made the choice of including Gwen in his story. Having movies all about her just to see her be killed all in the name of purist rooting for an outdated comicbook repels me. This is not only very wrong but also shows terrible writing skills and mediocre artistic thinking.

2. Mary Jane is Peter's true love? I don't think so.
The most popular? Yes, that's for sure.
Rewind the clocks (no puns intended) 40 years from now. If the Green Goblin hadn't killed Gwen and if Spidey actually saved her and she had lived up to this day, do you think Peter would be with Mary Jane?
I heard the reason why the writers have decided to kill Gwen is because they wanted Peter to stay ''young'' and not having him be married.
What if she was alive? I'm sure they would be together.
How many clues were dropped in the comics that Peter STILLS loves her? Way too many. It doesn't mean he doesn't loves Mary Jane deeply, but if he had the chance to go back in time and save her, he would. If you ask him what his perfect life would be like, he would be with Gwen.
You never EVER forget your first love.
In real life, even if you are happily married with children, do you ever think about what your life would be like if you were still with that first love? I know you do.

3. The dying scene of a main character is going to be shocking, disturbing but awesome? No. Well, not when you make a movie about Spider-Man.
Why would you kill a main character in the first place? So plot can evolve, so the character can feel grief and everything blah blah blah character developpement, blah blah.

Would the story of ASM2 be better if Gwen died? Does a character have to DIE to make a good story? I don't think so.
Would it be great to see Andrew's acting skills by mourning his beloved girlfriend? Not to me.
While these moments are very intense and deep, I don't think they are relevant.
I'll tell you, I'm sick of this concept about wanting to make every movies, comic book movies or not, darker and grittier. This is not a good idea, because not all heroes have to be dark to be great.
In Man of Steel, they tried to make Superman darker. The film itself is great, but the fight with Zod... The end... You know...*SNAP*.
It was shocking! Was it necessary? No.
It made the whole movie more dark and gritty, but I didn't feel great about it. I didn't feel like it was the REAL Superman. This is not what Superman is about. I felt cheated.

And I would feel cheated if they killed Gwen just to make Spider-Man darker. SPIDER-MAN WAS NEVER DARK, HE WILL NEVER BE!!! GET OVER IT!
Why is Spider-Man not dark? Because he has already lost everything he loves. In the comics, he lost Uncle Ben, too many friends, Gwen, Captain Stacy, he lost his marriage to the devil (oh, what an horrible storyline!!!)

Did ALL OF THAT **** have contributed into making him more edgier? NO.
The reason why Spider-Man cannot be dark is because he already has lost everything he cares about BUT he still sticked to all the morals and codes he started with. He never became a Batman-like hero. He never will.
He DOESN'T change.
And that's why people love him. Faithful towards himself, he belives in his morals.

Killing Gwen would NOT make him darker. It will make him sad, yeah, but will it help develop the character? No. Spider-Man doesn't become a dark version of himself. And I'm not talking about comics, I'm talking about the character in itself. The essence of it.

If you seriously think that killing Gwen Stacy so that the movie can be more mature, more ''cool'' and more accurate to the source material is a good idea... I think you don't know a **** about Spider-Man.
This is NOT what Spider-Man is about.

Why can't the hero finally be happy? People say they're tired of cheesy happy-ending. But I, for one, am tired of depressing and bittersweet endings. Heck, even the Dark Knight trilogy had an happy ending.
Why can't you just leave that ****** ass comic book from the 70s out of the way and let the movie crew be creative about their vision of Spider-Man?

And the message. THE ****ING MESSAGE BEHIND IT! Captain's dying wish ''Stay away from my daughter''. Peter breaks that promise and *tadaa* she is killed.
Isn't that... Disgusting? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too ironic. Waaaaaaaaay too ''I ****ing told you, you ******ed prick, it's your fault Gwen has died!''
This doesn't show that Peter has to learn to take responsability. To me, it just shows that Karma is a pure *****. The echo of that irony is... disgusting. Yes, I'm using that word again. It's too brutal, it's too... too much.
The moral of that story would be so sad, depressing and heartbreaking that it wouldn't be any good.
In French, the title of the movie is ''The Amazing Spiderman 2: A Heroe's Destiny''
Is it a heroe's destiny to have their girlfriend killed? Is it a heroe's destiny to be all alone?
This is not destiny. This is tragedy. Heroes don't have to be all tragic and stuff.
Having your love killed because you didn't respect a promise is a consequence so harsh and heartwrenching it kills all the idea of choice.
If you're a hero, your girlfriend will be murdered. So you have to choose, love or being superhero?
Why can't it be both?
Realizing that the life of your loved ones can be in danger if you're a superhero IS a moral.
You can create the scene about it and it's going to be damn good.
Spider-Man and Gwen at the end of the movie, after a near death experience.

Spider-Man: This is my path, these are the risks of living with me. Your life is in danger as long as you're by my side. I do love you Gwen, more than anything in the world, trust me. But I can't put your life at risk, and I won't stop being Spider-Man. This is my destiny.

Gwen: I love Spider-Man, but I love Peter Parker even more. I cannot imagine what my life would looks like without him. I choose to be with you, I'm aware that my life is threathened, but it's worth it. I know you will be there for me, I know you will always save me. Your life isn't easy and I fear you might die someday, but I'll be there with you, to support you. Whatever the cost. I'm willing to be by your side, always.

Captain Stacy appears behind Gwen, Spider-Man sees him.

Captain (to Peter): I didn't like the idea of having my dauther around you, at first. But tonight you've proved that you will do whatever you can to protect you. She loves you, Peter and she'll never let go of you. I wanted you to stay away from Gwen, but things have changed. I know that if there's a man that can protect her, it's you... The Spider-Man.
Take care of my daughter, Peter, treat her great love her everyday of your life. I trust you, my friend.


Isn't that a great ending? It might be sentimental, but is it good? It proves that love can grow despite monsters around. Having George Stacy changing his mind about Spider-Man being with Gwen is a nice touch and incredible character developpement. Because having Spider-Man saving Gwen and SHOWING he CAN save her can convice the Captain that Peter is perfect for Gwen. Her guardian. The man that will protect her, more than he could.
I feel this fits more into the spirit of the Spider-Man mythology.

I say let Gwen live. If I wanted to see her die, I would read the books. I'm here to observe an alternate view on Spidey's mythology. I wanna see something different.
Spider-Man doesn't have to be dark to be good. People love him for what he his already. It wouldn't be any better by adding drama and useless heartwrenching scenes only there for shock value.
Plus, it would be ultra predictable.

All the clues, the trailers, the green outfit. Why did they put all that in the trailer? They are not stupid, they know we know comics.
I think it's there only to create debate. But it's so obvious I think it can't be true.
Bluff?
Double bluff?
Triple bluff?

It's hard to say. All I know is that I will spoil myself when the movie comes out in foreign countries. I just can't go on without knowing.

But I'm calling out PLEASE, DON'T KILL HER, IT'S NOT WORTH IT!
This is not what Spider-Man is about.

Welcome to the hype!. Well it seems you have very strong feelings about this, and I get that. But the death of Gwen Stacy is a huge part of spider-man. Her death is almost as big as uncle ben, they both make spider-man who he is today. And IMO the story must be told.

 

[Spideyfan117]

Thematically, it just makes sense that she die. Yes, it seems to be a very bloodthirsty thing to demand. But Peter has to learn somehow that he can't have his cake and eat it too. It's not about making Spider-man dark and depressing. It's about showing the consequences of power. What you have to sacrifice when you put on the mask because, if you don't, it can be used to hurt you and the people you care about. It's also a story about moving on. Peter will never get over Gwen. He never has. But he has to have the will to keep living and keep doing what's right. It's a pivotal moment in the story of Spider-man in the comics and it could be equally pivotal here. And no, you don't HAVE to have any sort of element in any given story. But if it creates drama and fits in with any themes or messages carried by that story, it's a useful thing to do. Especially if it can somehow resonate with or relate to your audience.

 

[Airnick]

Thematically, it just makes sense that she die. Yes, it seems to be a very bloodthirsty thing to demand. But Peter has to learn somehow that he can't have his cake and eat it too. It's not about making Spider-man dark and depressing. It's about showing the consequences of power. What you have to sacrifice when you put on the mask because, if you don't, it can be used to hurt you and the people you care about. It's also a story about moving on. Peter will never get over Gwen. He never has. But he has to have the will to keep living and keep doing what's right. It's a pivotal moment in the story of Spider-man in the comics and it could be equally pivotal here. And no, you don't HAVE to have any sort of element in any given story. But if it creates drama and fits in with any themes or messages carried by that story, it's a useful thing to do. Especially if it can somehow resonate with or relate to your audience.

 

[FN Spider-man]

@ Batdetective Welcome to the hype ^^ and I have to say you make a really good compelling post i'm on the fence on both but I have to say I to want her to live but I guess we'll just wait and see

 

[Picard Sisko]

Thematically, it just makes sense that she die. Yes, it seems to be a very bloodthirsty thing to demand. But Peter has to learn somehow that he can't have his cake and eat it too. It's not about making Spider-man dark and depressing. It's about showing the consequences of power. What you have to sacrifice when you put on the mask because, if you don't, it can be used to hurt you and the people you care about. It's also a story about moving on. Peter will never get over Gwen. He never has. But he has to have the will to keep living and keep doing what's right. It's a pivotal moment in the story of Spider-man in the comics and it could be equally pivotal here. And no, you don't HAVE to have any sort of element in any given story. But if it creates drama and fits in with any themes or messages carried by that story, it's a useful thing to do. Especially if it can somehow resonate with or relate to your audience.

Well said, my friend.

 

[Batdetective]

Thank you for the welcome
However, the arguments that both of you are brining make no sense to me.

I will start with Airnick
First, I spent a gigantic post trying to explain how movies doesn't equal comics and having a different version of something is interesting. Then, you just point out that it's a memorable storyline from the comics.
Gwen's death in the comics is a big moment, yes, I get that. But why would it have to be in the movie?
To me, adding Gwen to a movie trilogy is like giving the character a second chance. Like showing how she would have been if she had live.
That's something I respect. It's different from what we know, and I like that.

I don't think you can compare the death of Uncle Ben and the death of Gwen. The death of Ben is a premise, it's event that sets Peter Parker to who he will be. THAT death marked the begining of Spider-Man.
It's not true for Gwen. He was Spider-Man when she died. He already knew about responsabilities and ****.
That outdated storyline was just there to shock. It didn't add anything new. He got close to Mary Jane, yeah that's true, but to me it seems more like a replacement than anything.

I would rather see Marc Webb showing us something that is a great moment in HIS movie, not copying a great moment from the comics.

PS: You're right, I feel strongly about this storyline. As I mentionned before, it makes me very sad and depressed. It's almost the exact representation of something I have lived, so of course it saddens me that I could actually see that moment on the big screen. Maybe I'm deluding myself into thinking that Gwen Stacy will live, but hope is all I have for now. It's hope that keeps us sticking around and makes us believe things will finally work out for the best. Let's just hope for the best but suspect the worst.


Next, Spideyfan117
You just pointed out the thing I would despise the most about ASM2.
Showing the consequences of breaking a promise with a such horryfing and traumatising death is just... Wrong. So damn wrong, brutal and sadistic.
A moral so dark and grim it will feel like a downer ending.

Yeah sure, it will add drama and make things chaotic and have the story evolve.
But if you're a talented writer, you KNOW there are plenty of other way to create a great, dramatic and evolving story without having to kill one of your main character all in the name of sadistic purists
There are other ways to invent amazing storylines, you don't have to follow the rules by the book. Just be creative and surprise us.

 

[Super Jim]

Thematically, it just makes sense that she die. Yes, it seems to be a very bloodthirsty thing to demand. But Peter has to learn somehow that he can't have his cake and eat it too. It's not about making Spider-man dark and depressing. It's about showing the consequences of power. What you have to sacrifice when you put on the mask because, if you don't, it can be used to hurt you and the people you care about. It's also a story about moving on. Peter will never get over Gwen. He never has. But he has to have the will to keep living and keep doing what's right. It's a pivotal moment in the story of Spider-man in the comics and it could be equally pivotal here. And no, you don't HAVE to have any sort of element in any given story. But if it creates drama and fits in with any themes or messages carried by that story, it's a useful thing to do. Especially if it can somehow resonate with or relate to your audience.

^ Absolutely!!!

Really sorry but Gwen must die, period!

Her death shocked the comic book world and changed Peter and Spiderman forever. I mean, it was so important that they actually named the killing of super hero love interests "The Gwen Stacy Syndrome" (it's also known as "Women in Refridgerators" after a Green Lantern issue.

Yes, as you said, the reason why Gwen was killed off in the comics was because they didn't want to make Peter a grown up and they were heading towards marriage. Tyhe writer actually said that “Gwen was sweet, beautiful and boring.”

The problem that you are having is that Emma's gwen is sweet, beutiful AND not boring, and I agree. But as much as I love Emma, she's playing a character that must die! It's what Gwen does.

Look, maybe Emma should have been MJ, but she was cast as Gwen. And we know that they want to do her death justice. And you yourself have stated that her death would be a big deal. So I think you need to just accept that she will die and get on board with our discussion of whether it will be in TASM2 or TASM3. And I think I've already proved that it will be in TASM2.

 

[FN Spider-man]

^This is what I don't like right there her being famous of only because of her death. I hope one day marvel will bring her back and not kill her again
They killed her only to move MJ in and thats what it felt like

 

[sl500jazz]

^ If they bring her back, imo it should only be in an alternate universe or if the entire series is rebooted. Gwen and Uncle Ben are some of the few comic book characters to actually stay dead for a change.

@ Batdetective. Welcome! I can understand how you feel, but imo the 'Death of Gwen Stacy' is so significant to the Spider-Man mythos and comic book history as a whole, that I think it would feel like a missed opportunity for me if they chose not to tackle it at some point.

Either way, it might be a little too late to plead for them to let her live.

Do we have any idea what season the Electro and goblin fights take place?.

Honestly, I don't know. Looking at Gwen, MJ, and Aunt May though, my best guess would be Spring.

it comes after this:

 

[Batdetective]

^This is what I don't like right there her being famous of only because of her death. I hope one day marvel will bring her back and not kill her again
They killed her only to move MJ in and thats what it felt like

My point exactly, thank you.
Webb made the choice of adding a character that was long forgotten about. He gave her a second chance.
ASM feels like a ''What if''. Whaf it Gwen had live.

That's what I like. I like discovering characters we were not familiar with and making them awesome so we like them.
I don't care about MJ, personnaly. She had 3 movies about her already.

I think it's just wrong and bad to add characters just so we can see them die in an horrible way. It's drama for weak writers.

 

[Spideyfan117]

Next, Spideyfan117
You just pointed out the thing I would despise the most about ASM2.
Showing the consequences of breaking a promise with a such horryfing and traumatising death is just... Wrong. So damn wrong, brutal and sadistic.
A moral so dark and grim it will feel like a downer ending.

Yeah sure, it will add drama and make things chaotic and have the story evolve.
But if you're a talented writer, you KNOW there are plenty of other way to create a great, dramatic and evolving story without having to kill one of your main character all in the name of sadistic purists
There are other ways to invent amazing storylines, you don't have to follow the rules by the book. Just be creative and surprise us.

Again, it's not about being dark and depressing. And it's certainly not about SADISM of all things. A talented writer follows his vision, regardless of what audiences think they want to see. That's true enough. But if their vision calls for the death of a character, that doesn't take away from their talent and it doesn't take away from the value of the story they wanted to tell. In this case, Gwen's death seems to be part of that story. Perhaps partially because Marc Webb and Emma Stone quite like The Night Gwen Stacy Died. But also because it fits a vision they had about Peter's journey to become a great hero being an ongoing process where he continually learns lessons. It shapes how he approaches being a hero.

Think of it this way. Is it sadistic to demand that Uncle Ben die in a Spider-man movie? I don't think so. Because it's Peter learning that hard lesson that starts him on his path to being a real hero, not just a kid with powers. Gwen's death is a similar moment in the story. Peter learns why he has to be careful. It's the power/responsibility mantra coming into play again. Is it fair? No. Is it a good thing? No. Does it make anybody happy? No. But it's a big element in the story of Spider-man.

Spider-man's story is not all about being dark. His story is much lighter than many others. But that doesn't mean bad things don't happen. People connect to Peter because of how real he is. All aspects of life are represented through his story. The good, the bad, the mundane. And he, like everyone else, learns from them. Any good story takes into account all of those things. And sure, the bad can sometimes seem to outshine the good. But in an ongoing story like Spider-man, the hero does learn to live with the bad and enjoy the good. Peter learns to live after Uncle Ben dies. He becomes happy again. The same happens once he loses Gwen. How he deals with his losses is part of what is, ultimately, an inspiring story.

 

[FN Spider-man]

My point exactly, thank you.
Webb made the choice of adding a character that was long forgotten about. He gave her a second chance.
ASM feels like a ''What if''. Whaf it Gwen had live.

That's what I like. I like discovering characters we were not familiar with and making them awesome so we like them.
I don't care about MJ, personnaly. She had 3 movies about her already.

I think it's just wrong and bad to add characters just so we can see them die in an horrible way. It's drama for weak writers.

I to am persona;;y not a fan of hers I only like Gwen Stacy and Felicia Hardy (until marvel tried to wreck her to but thats another topic)

 

[Airnick]

Again, it's not about being dark and depressing. And it's certainly not about SADISM of all things. A talented writer follows his vision, regardless of what audiences think they want to see. That's true enough. But if their vision calls for the death of a character, that doesn't take away from their talent and it doesn't take away from the value of the story they wanted to tell. In this case, Gwen's death seems to be part of that story. Perhaps partially because Marc Webb and Emma Stone quite like The Night Gwen Stacy Died. But also because it fits a vision they had about Peter's journey to become a great hero being an ongoing process where he continually learns lessons. It shapes how he approaches being a hero.

Think of it this way. Is it sadistic to demand that Uncle Ben die in a Spider-man movie? I don't think so. Because it's Peter learning that hard lesson that starts him on his path to being a real hero, not just a kid with powers. Gwen's death is a similar moment in the story. Peter learns why he has to be careful. It's the power/responsibility mantra coming into play again. Is it fair? No. Is it a good thing? No. Does it make anybody happy? No. But it's a big element in the story of Spider-man.

Spider-man's story is not all about being dark. His story is much lighter than many others. But that doesn't mean bad things don't happen. People connect to Peter because of how real he is. All aspects of life are represented through his story. The good, the bad, the mundane. And he, like everyone else, learns from them. Any good story takes into account all of those things. And sure, the bad can sometimes seem to outshine the good. But in an ongoing story like Spider-man, the hero does learn to live with the bad and enjoy the good. Peter learns to live after Uncle Ben dies. He becomes happy again. The same happens once he loses Gwen. How he deals with his losses is part of what is, ultimately, an inspiring story.

I agree with you again Spideyfan117

 

[Airnick]

I to am persona;;y not a fan of hers I only like Gwen Stacy and Felicia Hardy (until marvel tried to wreck her to but thats another topic)

Really?, do you mine me asking what you don't like about MJ?.

 

[FN Spider-man]

Really?, do you mine me asking what you don't like about MJ?.

I don't want to get into that topic

 

[Picard Sisko]

I only disliked MJ after she rejected Peter's marriage proposal and disappeared, but she makes up for it later on.

 

[sl500jazz]

Again, it's not about being dark and depressing. And it's certainly not about SADISM of all things. A talented writer follows his vision, regardless of what audiences think they want to see. That's true enough. But if their vision calls for the death of a character, that doesn't take away from their talent and it doesn't take away from the value of the story they wanted to tell. In this case, Gwen's death seems to be part of that story. Perhaps partially because Marc Webb and Emma Stone quite like The Night Gwen Stacy Died. But also because it fits a vision they had about Peter's journey to become a great hero being an ongoing process where he continually learns lessons. It shapes how he approaches being a hero.

Think of it this way. Is it sadistic to demand that Uncle Ben die in a Spider-man movie? I don't think so. Because it's Peter learning that hard lesson that starts him on his path to being a real hero, not just a kid with powers. Gwen's death is a similar moment in the story. Peter learns why he has to be careful. It's the power/responsibility mantra coming into play again. Is it fair? No. Is it a good thing? No. Does it make anybody happy? No. But it's a big element in the story of Spider-man.

Spider-man's story is not all about being dark. His story is much lighter than many others. But that doesn't mean bad things don't happen. People connect to Peter because of how real he is. All aspects of life are represented through his story. The good, the bad, the mundane. And he, like everyone else, learns from them. Any good story takes into account all of those things. And sure, the bad can sometimes seem to outshine the good. But in an ongoing story like Spider-man, the hero does learn to live with the bad and enjoy the good. Peter learns to live after Uncle Ben dies. He becomes happy again. The same happens once he loses Gwen. How he deals with his losses is part of what is, ultimately, an inspiring story.

^ Great Post. Although I wish that MJ could have been apart of that in some capacity. Gwen's death really had a profound impact on her character development (particularly her outlook on life) as well and really strengthened the bond between her and Peter. The fact that both characters were affected in some way by such a tragic event, made Peter's transition to MJ work smoothly and naturally within the comics. Such a shame that it always has to be one or the other in these movies. That "one true love" syndrome.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

^This is what I don't like right there her being famous of only because of her death. I hope one day marvel will bring her back and not kill her again
They killed her only to move MJ in and thats what it felt like

When you read back issues, it's sometimes hard to remember that Amazing Spider-Man was published once a month. It was close to two years for Peter and Mary Jane to go from the Gwen Stacy epilogue to their first kiss.


As for Marvel bringing Gwen back:

I wish that Gwen Stacy was never killed off or more realistically brought back. I would like to see her alive and kicking in the current Spider-Man universe. I mean, if Doc Ock can switch bodies with Peter and kill him in his own body, is bringing Gwen back that crazy of an option?

It’s not crazy per se, but I think it’s a negative gain overall. I love Gwen, but I’ll also be the first to tell you that there wasn’t really much to her—the most memorable thing that she did was to die. And so bringing her back just makes her another blonde girl in Spider-Man’s cast, while taking away the one thing for which she’s best remembered, the fact that she was the girl that Spider-Man failed to save, the one that died because he was Spider-Man. Losing that is no small thing, and it’s not worth getting back a character that’s so relatively thin. Better, if you want to go that route, to introduce a new girl, and make her more interesting than Gwen.

http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.co...-that-gwen-stacy-was-never-killed-off-or-more

I could see them keeping Gwen alive if they hadn't already eliminated her two character arcs.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The thing with comic books is that they have years to develop characters, where with movies everything has to be done with only a few 2 hour installments. It would be too hard to develop Peter and MJ's friendship while Gwen is around as his girlfriend.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

I only disliked MJ after she rejected Peter's marriage proposal and disappeared, but she makes up for it later on.

You wanted her to accept his proposal, despite her not being ready for marriage? That would have turned out well.

 

[FN Spider-man]

They could have also developed Gwen but you see Mj was the fan favorite so they went with that, that not growing Peter up is a cop out because he got married to MJ and i was porbably in the minority that was happy about the marriage being undone but thats a whole other topic