World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[UltimateWebhead]

Can we talk about SMALL miniscule details that everyone appreciated? Nothing game changing or anything, but the little things that made you go, that's cool.

I'm going to start with the simple Pumpkin Bomb. In comics, the pumpkin bombs look like actual jack o' lanterns,

and in movies where they take a more realistic and practical approach, the pumpkin bombs look more technological, and don't do the whole jack o' lantern bit.

Spectacular combined those two elements with the bombs still looking technological, but still keeping the whimsy of looking like Jack o' lanterns.

It combines the best of both worlds. The bombs don't look like straight up pumpkins, so they look like something technological, and they still have faces on these bombs so that they keep up with the whimsical nature of a man in his mid 40's dressing up as a mythological creature. It seems that the bombs were specifically designed to be theatrical and in line with Norman's costume, rather than the other direction in the movies where it's mere coincidence that they look like pumpkins. ALSO the screams that the bombs make upon explosion was a stroke of PURE genius. A trait that I would like to see other adaptions adapt.

You can thank Victor Cook for that one t: I thoroughly enjoyed that sound effect...I was even using it as my notification sound on my phone for a text message at one point, lol.

What's great too is in the episode Catalysts when GG is basically forcing that trio of thugs to join his ranks, remember, he used a mini-pumpkin bomb to open the safe for them--it made a little scream I just love those minor details.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Is there anything that SSM did wrong?

Those pumpkin bombs are by far my favorite of any we've gotten. The screams are brilliant, too.

 

[Shikamaru]

Is there anything that SSM did wrong?

What did you think of Venom and Kraven? They were a bit of a letdown for me.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Big furry kitty cat Kraven is probably my biggest detractor from TSSM. This is a nitpick imo though since it's simply a visual negative. His characterization was great.

I'm not much of a Venom fan nor a fan of the symbiotes in general but the interpretation of Venom in this show is much better than the 616 version. So, I consider that a plus.

Although Brock still had some possibly weak motivations for hating on Peter and his decent into 'darkness' could have been materialized a bit better, it still worked well enough for me. I found it to be entertaining and enjoyable--which says a lot since I usually don't care for that type of villain.

I like how they used the Ultimate comics as a source for inspiration in making Peter and Brock have a personal connection and then showing Venom actually using that against Peter in a true threatening manner, i.e. jeopardizing the lives of both May and Gwen and threatening to reveal his identity to the public by demasking him, and of course threatening to neutralize his powers then make Parker sit powerless as Venom would have caused his closest family and friends to suffer. Much more effective than the 616 counterpart imo.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Is there anything that SSM did wrong?

Not much. People don't like Kraven (and neither do I) a whole lot, but the character still worked fine in the universe. That's my biggest nitpick with the show and someone earlier in this thread posted that Weisman has said he had big plans for Kraven in S3, so that probably would've ended up being satisfactory anyway.

Overall, I honestly believe that TSSM was near-perfect. Unfortunately, it was too perfect for this world...

Those pumpkin bombs are by far my favorite of any we've gotten. The screams are brilliant, too.

Jumping on the hype train, but yeah. Super awesome, and the screams were a really cool addition to the pumpkin bomb concept.

 

[Shikamaru]

Venom was good, but I guess my disappointment comes from the success of the other villains. Especially Green Goblin and Doc Ock. They were perfect, so Venom looks subpar by comparison.

In concept I do love this Venom though. I didn't realize I did 'till listening to Greg talk about him:

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I think he makes a strong argument there for why Venom qualifies as the "third archenemy". It's not just that there's depth, he also explains to how he differs from GG and Ock.

The problem is like you said, it's a bit too rushed. That and I feel he should be creepier. GG was creepy, Ock was creepy in the "wait, that guy had it in him to do this?" kinda way. So overall fun but subpar by comparison.

 

[Mistah K88]

I think that with Kraven and Venom, the issue mainly was timing. With Venom, I'm sure that the heads upstairs (Sony) wanted to introduce him as soon as possible. This is probably why things seemed a bit rushed when it came to him... but heck, network heads what are you going to do?

With Kraven, I think while his transformation does fit in character, it happened too soon. The Spectacular crew were originally thinking to introduce Kraven in Season 1, but they were told that Kraven would be a better fit when Spidey had some victories, gaining him noteriety. I agree with that as well, but think with Kraven's transformation it needed the opposite effect. Kraven should have had more failures before ultimately going forward with the transformation to even the scales to match up to Spidey. I do think that had we seen the plans for season 3 it would have helped as Kraven's arc was advancing others as well, Miles Warren manipulating genetics, and eventually John Jameson as well.

There were a few small lines that made me think as well...

In Shear Strength, Ock mentions that Phineas (Tinkerer) AND Adrian (Vulture) put together the computers and machines that Mysterio stole. We know the that's Tinkerer's thing, but including Vulture in that one sentence reminds us that Adrian Toomes is an engineer along with Otto Octavius, and Phineas Mason.

Something similar was with Green Goblin mentioning to Molten Man about being tempted to make his metallic super skin permanent for the sole purpose of learning the cause of the armor's unexpected heat. Normally the question is "why would he care?" Which would be the case for Harry, but it makes sense for Norman being a scientist that he would want to learn why an experiment is acting in a way that it isn't supposed to..

With Shocker being a side villain in the upcoming "Homecoming", there's another extremely minor thing in the episode "Probable Cause". Spidey seems to know that Shocker and his merry band of Enforcers are professional criminals, and wouldn't simply muscle their way into a bank in the same way as someone as shortsighted and thuggish like Sandman and Rhino. Spidey even mentions that a heist is beneath Shocker. The character normally is treated as a joke in other media, so it is nice to see the character treated with respect...hopefully he will get the same respect in the movie!

 

[PeterBenParker]

What did you think of Venom and Kraven? They were a bit of a letdown for me.

Venom -- really enjoyed him..minus all of the "bro" talk between Peter and Eddie and his design (TAS got it better imo).

Kraven -- also really enjoyed him and the transformation bit didn't bother me as much as it did others. I would've liked a simple serum that just enhanced his abilities but aside from that thought he was fine. I will agree if things would've been saved longer, Kraven wouldn't have come across as he did to some of you guys. Wish we could've gotten more of Calypso, too but that all relied on more seasons, I guess.

Kraven's my second favorite Spider-Man villain (behind The Lizard) so I was really happy with the result. In fact, I've enjoyed just about every Kraven we've gotten in the cartoons..minus Ultimate Spider-Man because I didn't get that far to see how they handled him. Comic Kraven is still my favorite just because of the classics appreciation but Greg really knew what he was doing (imo, of course).

If I had to pick a favorite villain of the show, it's between Doc Ock, The Lizard, Tombstone and Sandman. Ock, in particular, because they went with the nebbish approach that gradually built into the Octavius everyone loves to hate. It was absolutely genius.

Not much. People don't like Kraven (and neither do I) a whole lot, but the character still worked fine in the universe. That's my biggest nitpick with the show and someone earlier in this thread posted that Weisman has said he had big plans for Kraven in S3, so that probably would've ended up being satisfactory anyway.

Overall, I honestly believe that TSSM was near-perfect. Unfortunately, it was too perfect for this world...

RIP SSM. Always in our hearts and always in our minds.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

If this show was to be greenlit for a 3rd season, the thing I'd be most excited for is Weisman's plans for Hobgoblin. Easily one of my favorite villains and it pains me to think how awesome it most likely would have turned out.

 

[Shikamaru]

Man, I can't even imagine what they had in mind for the Hobgoblin. The Hobgoblin mystery in the comics was the Green Goblin mystery on steroids, so I assume it would have been even more of a mindtrip. With the Green Goblin we had 3 or 4 suspects; with the Hobgoblin I imagine 6 or 7 then?

The other missed opportunity was Emily Osborn. They apparently had plans for her and were gonna bring Demona's voice actress in. IMO Demona is one of the best written female villains in animation, so it begs the question if the Green Goblin would have gotten his own Harley Quinn. I mean not literally, I doubt she'd wear a Goblin suit (she'd probably just be a shady businesswoman), but with Greg I imagine she would've got a Mercy Graves-esque kinda feedback at minimum.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I'd kill to see Weisman's take on the Hobgoblin mystery in Spectacular. Gaaaaahhhhh

 

[Mistah K88]

I will agree with the Hobgoblin. Especially with Kingsley being introduced, and more emphasis being put on Ned. We all know the way it went down in comics, was a convoluted mess with different writers and retcons and all that jazz. I'm very curious to know how that story would have been better streamlined and planned out proper. Heck, Norman Osborn being the Green Goblin is public knowledge in Spectacular's New York... which was THE leverage that Hobby had on Harry and his family. While we all know that Ned and Roderick would have been suspects, I'm curious to know who else they would have brought in.

Given their knack for composite characters, could we have seen a mix of Barton Hamilton and Lefty Donovan? Bart pumping information out of Harry (as he would need to see a shrink since his dad just "died" in a firey explosion) and being used as a test dummy for the real Hobgoblin to test an altered Globulin Green? Would Flash get framed? Would Emily be a suspect?

Speaking of Emily Osborn, anyone else think she was in on her husband's extra curricular activities? In Opening Night, we know what happened to Harry, and where Norman was, but Emily didn't show up to the play either. I have a feeling that she is as responsible for Harry's home life as Norman is...We probably would have caught her on the phone at the end of conversation saying something like "and he calls himself the Hobgoblin" to someone like Mr. Romann. Keeping him up with New York's crime scene and news. Harry didn't have a chance with BOTH of his parents being indifferent toward him...

 

[Shikamaru]

I imagine Emily as a businesswoman with a personality similar to Mercy Graves or human form Demona's. She's bound to at least seem shady, and Peter definitely would have suspected her. In fact, I predict there would've been a confrontation scene of some sort between her and Spidey. If not with her then with Harry.

I mean, put yourself in Peter's shoes. You find out a new Goblin shows up. Who do you first suspect? Obviously Menken, Emily and Harry. The latter two especially have the strongest incentive to suit up after Final Curtain so there's no way you wouldn't go to them first. Plus it's exactly what he did after the Goblin returned in Season 2.

Then there's Ned. I don't know if he would have been a suspect to Peter, but I took Greg's promise of "more Ned and Betty scenes" in Season 3 to mean Ned would at least be one of the suspects to the audience. Not sure how Kingsley would have came in. Perhaps attempting a takeover of Oscorp? Besides that I'm not sure.

 

[Mistah K88]

Yeah, it is a wonder how the characters will play into the questioning of the audience.

With Kingsley, it is already shown that he’s interested into getting into the New York underworld. While he has the means to get into the organized crime scene monetarily, he definitely lacks the experience. While he was savvy enough to expect a fight from SIlvermane, the Big Man, and the Master Planner, (enough to have a decoy at least) he didn’t know to what extent they would go after him. I could also see him expanding his company and taking an interest in Oscorp, which would make him suspect, as this perfume CEO all of a sudden has a massive interest in technology.
Ned’s a harder cookie to crack; we do know that he was assigned a Goblin expose in season 1 and to investigate Spidey in season 2. Maybe he would be getting too deep into his investigation, thus making rather irrational and questionable decisions.

 

[Shikamaru]

Way back in '09 I also remember reading something about Gwen and MJ entering a beauty pageant owned by Kingsley. I don't seem to find it anymore though.

 

[zeptron]

In regards to the whole Kraven becoming a lion, I know some people didn't like it, but it never really bothered me. Weisman stated that Kraven's transformation would had been more important in the show's long term run and that John Jameson would have somehow gotten involved. My guess is Man-Wolf.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

The transformation would be handy to fight against the Lizard if they had adapted the Spring Break stuff to the series.

 

[Mistah K88]

With Man Wolf being connected to plans with Kraven, you could bet that things like Miles Warren and genetics would have been involved. I'm wondering if they would have also connected Man Wolf to the Lobo Brothers, who are also werewolves that Spidey has dealt with (and were involved in a gang war in the comics).

Another thing that probably would have surfaced is Tombstone's ties to Robbie Robertson. People mention that L. Thompson Lincoln is very similar to a traditional Wilson Fisk, but I'm sure that THIS would have been the thing to give him more depth in the same way that Kingpin's family drama did. Also, it would have given more spotlight on Robbie, and possibly Randy by extension. With the Gang War continuing and Tombstone already knocked from his perch and crippled with all this surveillance on him I'm sure he would have to reach out...

Speaking of the Gang War, now that the big three (Silvermane, Ock, and the Big Man) have been knocked down, and the current Crime Boss (Gobby) is out of the picture I'm wondering who would be the major participants. We already know Hammerhead would be one, and I can guess Hobgoblin would have been another contender, but is Sable out of the picture? Would we see other crime lords adapted, from classic ones like Francisco "Lucky" Lobo, to more modern ones like Mr. Negative, the possibilities would have been endless. (side note: after reading my post again, I'm sure that if they were to use both the Lobo brothers, and Lucky Lobo, they would have had the Silvermane/Silver Sable connection...maybe with the old school mobster Francisco as dad with Carlos and Eduardo as his modernized gangster kids? I don't know)

Although the series was more science fiction based, they did hint to magic for the first time with Calypso. So I'm curious to know how her role would have played out.

Another side note is that I liked the fact that the Goblin Glider made the same exact sound as Vulture's wings, letting us know it's the same machine.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Oh, good call on the Glider/Wings sound effects. The reuse of the "Flight Tech" sounds was so cool.

 

[Vampfox]

Can't stand the god awful character designs. They ruin the whole show for me.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Can't stand the god awful character designs. They ruin the whole show for me.

 

[zeptron]

Can't stand the god awful character designs. They ruin the whole show for me.

The designs are pretty much an acquired taste, but they helped provide much smoother animation as well as pretty dynamic action sequences. I'd say that's a trade-off. And it really shouldn't be used to determine the overall quality of the show. I mean a lot of people consider Ultimate Spider-man to be the worst Spider-man show for many reasons. And it's designs aren't one of them.

It's pretty much the equivalent of saying that a bad game with good graphics is better than a game that has inferior graphics.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

After listening to the podcast for the episode Destructive Testing, I came across an interesting footnote.

Apparently, Weisman/Cook wanted to introduce Kraven in episode 2 of the first season however there were two objections, one by Marvel and the other by Hasbro. Marvel stated, and made a good point, that Kraven shouldn't come into the picture until Spidey had earned himself a decent amount of victories. Weisman indeed admitted this was a solid point and probably the main reason for pushing him back to season 2. Hasbro on the other hand didn't want Kraven introduced so early cause they stated that a man holding a spear, as an action figure doesn't sell very well. Good point I suppose. But even after Kraven turned into a lion, they still didn't make a toy out of him anyway. At least I can't remember them doing so.

Which makes me wonder if Hasbro had any input on turning Kraven into a big furry kitty cat in the first place. Eh, maybe.

Another interesting point, is that Weisman was unsatisfied with the animation in the 2nd fight versus the first one. He stated that it didn't convey the message well enough that he intended. He wanted to show Kraven getting worn out by having to tear thru so much webbing. I think when watching the show for the first time, I understood what they were going for there but I suppose it could have been pulled off better.

 

[Venom 1988]

Yeah they never ended up making a toy of Kraven.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I definitely agree that the concept was there but the execution was lacking re: the second Kraven fight. One of my least favorite episodes of the entire series, but that's not a knock--I still enjoyed it immensely.