World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[UltimateWebhead]

Yeah they never ended up making a toy of Kraven.

Thanks for clarifying. I was about 99% sure there wasn't one.

I'm not much of a figure collector but because of how much I adore the show I did end up buying a few. I've got Spider-Man, black suit Spidey, GG, and Ock.

I definitely agree that the concept was there but the execution was lacking re: the second Kraven fight. One of my least favorite episodes of the entire series, but that's not a knock--I still enjoyed it immensely.

I think it's a testament to the show that even the least favorite episodes per each fan are still found to be enjoyable.

I asked this question much earlier in this thread but I don't believe you'd joined the hype yet...so, what's your top 5 episodes?

 

[Mistah K88]

I think I understood what they were trying to do with the second Kraven fight... As they sure made an effort to make sure those webs stuck around all over his body when they haven't really remained visible after someone escaped from them before. I really wonder how toy companies run cartoons, as the Hobgoblin only came before the green goblin in Spider-Man TAS because his toy was already made (Making little sense when Green Goblin fought Hobgoblin and kept calling him an imposter). It's funny as I remember buying more Batman toys when movies came out, despite watching BTAS religiously...

Now we all know that the primary characters were excellent, but what secondary characters did you think were done really well?

Any characters in the show you feel were NOT done justice, either by bad characterization, or not enough time on screen to develop? (the latter would have been rectified had the show gotten more seasons).

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I think I understood what they were trying to do with the second Kraven fight... As they sure made an effort to make sure those webs stuck around all over his body when they haven't really remained visible after someone escaped from them before.

I got that as well however apparently Weisman was not satisfied with how it turned out. He said the animation wasn't as good as the 1st encounter with Kraven. Although I got what they were going for, I can see how it could have been improved. Wasn't anything I was consciously thinking about while watching the episode--but once Weisman mentioned it, now I'm thinking about it.

I really wonder how toy companies run cartoons, as the Hobgoblin only came before the green goblin in Spider-Man TAS because his toy was already made (Making little sense when Green Goblin fought Hobgoblin and kept calling him an imposter). It's funny as I remember buying more Batman toys when movies came out, despite watching BTAS religiously...

I can't say for sure just how much leverage or weight the toy companies have in making decisions regarding these shows but it would seem that Hasbro did indeed have a say in the matter. After all, because of their opinions on Kraven as well as Marvel's, Weisman/Cook moved Kraven from the planned spot in episode 2 back down to episode 15.

Now we all know that the primary characters were excellent, but what secondary characters did you think were done really well?

Any characters in the show you feel were NOT done justice, either by bad characterization, or not enough time on screen to develop? (the latter would have been rectified had the show gotten more seasons).

I'm not sure of your definition of a secondary character...does Gwen fit that or is she a primary? If she's a secondary then imo by far she is one of the top if not the top in terms of being done very well. An improved version over the 616.

I can't really think of any characters that weren't done justice. Like you say, some were barely touched upon but with their commitment to providing very accurate, truthful representations of their characters, Weisman/Cook would have no doubt fleshed those characters out in later episodes. But as far as I can think, off the top of my head, there's no bad characterizations that come to mind. I'll ponder that...

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

to more modern ones like Mr. Negative, the possibilities would have been endless.

Weisman mentioned enjoying the character before, so he probably would've been likely. Not to mention him still wanting to use Kingpin even after using Tombstone. If they still didn't have Kingpin had further seasons gone out, he might've likely used Mr. Negative as a substitute.

Any characters in the show you feel were NOT done justice, either by bad characterization, or not enough time on screen to develop? (the latter would have been rectified had the show gotten more seasons).

I can't think of any BAD characterizations, but a lot of the set-up for the villains can be frustrating. Seeing civilian versions of Jackal, Carnage, Hydro-Man, or even that Gargan mention can be hard. Roderick Kingsley is also another frustrating one because we got enough to know the show nailed Kinglsey(s), but it was cut short before fleshing him out more as a proper Spider-Man villain.

This isn't obviously the show's fault, but still.

 

[Mistah K88]

One secondary character who I would say stood out is Hammerhead. I think that this is one of the more major roles he's had outside of comics (and funny how he was working for Tombstone rather than the other way around like in the comics [until Toombstone gave him a whooping that is]). I will also say that this is actually one of DiMaggio's more original voices as well...as it sounds like nothing he's done before.

 

[Venom 1988]

One secondary character who I would say stood out is Hammerhead. I think that this is one of the more major roles he's had outside of comics (and funny how he was working for Tombstone rather than the other way around like in the comics [until Toombstone gave him a whooping that is]). I will also say that this is actually one of DiMaggio's more original voices as well...as it sounds like nothing he's done before.

Definitely agree. This show made me fan of characters I never cared about in the comics (Hammerhead, Tombstone, The Enforcers, etc..). I've been rewatching the show the last few weeks in anticipation for Homecoming and I just watched the last episode that featured Sandman in the show.
What stood out to me was the conversation between Sandman and Hammerhead and how I can definitely tell DiMaggio was voicing Sandman but his Hammerhead voice is so unique that I cant even tell its him.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I think it's a testament to the show that even the least favorite episodes per each fan are still found to be enjoyable.

Completely agreed.

I asked this question much earlier in this thread but I don't believe you'd joined the hype yet...so, what's your top 5 episodes?

Oof, that's a tough ask. Like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid or something (except for the part where I was not involved at all in the production of the show).

In NO particular order:

• Natural Selection - Classic Parker luck; leave and Peter Parker is hated, stay and Lizard rampages freely. No pics? No money for bills, but if he sells them, he appears a traitor to his friends. The supporting cast was fantastic in this episode, especially Martha Connors.
  
• Shear Strength - Can't not have the Master Planner saga/Spider-Man lifts the rubble homage on my list. This whole 4-episode arc was great and Captain Stacy's character gets some shine. Big for Gwen's character IMO as well.
  
• Gangland - I adore the supporting cast of this show, and this may be the pinnacle of the high school gang's interactions. The Valentine's dinner at the restaurant is brilliantly-scripted, pushes multiple characters forward, develops new facets of characters we've known for almost 2 seasons now (Liz grows a spine, Mark protects his sister, Flash has a heart/isn't a big jerk at heart). The villains are awesome (especially Hammerhead), the setting is great, and Jonah really cracks me up in this one.
  
• Identity Crisis - Have I mentioned I love the supporting cast? They're treated well here, especially Flash--usually one of the most underrated, under-appreciated, under-utilized characters in the mythos really gets his chance to shine here. This isn't my favorite Venom episode, but the greater story pushes this up in spite of that.
  
• Final Curtain - This was a hard choice. I feel awful leaving off so many great S1 episodes, because I think I enjoy rewatching them more than a lot of S2, but this episode hits all the right marks. It sets the Goblin story right in an unprecedented way, creates even more intimate and personal stakes for Peter, and sets up the future of the show csad impeccably. It's a shame we never got to see what happens after this.

Honorable Mentions:

• Market Forces - Love Montana/Shocker on this show. This character just worked, and the juxtaposition of his idea of responsibility vs. Peter's great responsibility works perfectly. The fact that Peter actually ends up learning a lesson from Shocker and explaining himself to Aunt May by quoting his enemy at the end is the cherry on top. It sets up multiple plot points for the rest of the series, establishing character beats for Hammerhead (best use of the character in any media ever) and Norman Osborn.
  
• Group Therapy - Duh. What an awesome episode. Really demonstrates the ability of the writing team to weave together multiple stories from the classic, formative era of Spider-Man in a skillful and enjoyable way. Sometimes these changes can come across as offensive to fans, but on Spectacular they never did. Just the opposite, the changes made almost exclusively elevated the show.
  
• Catalysts - Probably my favorite episode not to make the "top 5" list. Excellent intro to the Green Goblin. I love his interaction with Tombstone's thugs, Tombstone's attempts to save his rep, Jonah and John's relationship, and nearly everything else. The ending, where Tombstone chides Peter for freely doing the job he was offered to be paid for, is classic Spider-Man--he can't win, for all the right reasons. The Fall Formal is great, MJ's character shines, and the dance between Peter and her at the end hits all the right beats.

Offhand, some of my favorite moments that aren't listed above are Mary Jane's introduction (and the constant "personality...ughh" joke that precedes it), pretty much anything involving Black Cat, Flash's mom embarrassing him at his party, Jonah yelling about stapling people to flagpoles, Spidey trapping Rhino on ice ("I hate you. So. Much."), all of Sandman (especially the sand castle scene), and so much more that I can't even remember right now.

Basically, this show is the best. In my opinion, it is the best portrayal of Spider-Man in any media outside of comics.

 

[Shikamaru]

So I'm curious, anything in this show that's dated yet?

The big one is cell phones. I noticed the characters call each other often but don't text as much. In 2017 it would be the other way around. That and they take cabs instead of ubers. Besides that I can't think of anything else.

I asked this question much earlier in this thread but I don't believe you'd joined the hype yet...so, what's your top 5 episodes?

Don't really like to do top fives with serialized stories,
but Intervention and Final Curtain I think those have the most suspense and emotion. They're the Two-Face and Robin's Reckoning equivalents to why the show as a whole nails Spider-Man IMO. It's what I would point to primarily when highlighting the strengths of the show.

 

[Mistah K88]

So I'm curious, anything in this show that's dated yet?

The big one is cell phones. I noticed the characters call each other often but don't text as much. In 2017 it would be the other way around. That and they take cabs instead of ubers. Besides that I can't think of anything else.

The show Punk'd is namedropped, but other than that... nothing TOO egregious.

Maybe the obvious Blackberry phone, the Ozberry, but then again, that phone still does more than everything our current phones do...

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Completely agreed.



Oof, that's a tough ask. Like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid or something (except for the part where I was not involved at all in the production of the show).

In NO particular order:

• Natural Selection - Classic Parker luck; leave and Peter Parker is hated, stay and Lizard rampages freely. No pics? No money for bills, but if he sells them, he appears a traitor to his friends. The supporting cast was fantastic in this episode, especially Martha Connors.
  
• Shear Strength - Can't not have the Master Planner saga/Spider-Man lifts the rubble homage on my list. This whole 4-episode arc was great and Captain Stacy's character gets some shine. Big for Gwen's character IMO as well.
  
• Gangland - I adore the supporting cast of this show, and this may be the pinnacle of the high school gang's interactions. The Valentine's dinner at the restaurant is brilliantly-scripted, pushes multiple characters forward, develops new facets of characters we've known for almost 2 seasons now (Liz grows a spine, Mark protects his sister, Flash has a heart/isn't a big jerk at heart). The villains are awesome (especially Hammerhead), the setting is great, and Jonah really cracks me up in this one.
  
• Identity Crisis - Have I mentioned I love the supporting cast? They're treated well here, especially Flash--usually one of the most underrated, under-appreciated, under-utilized characters in the mythos really gets his chance to shine here. This isn't my favorite Venom episode, but the greater story pushes this up in spite of that.
  
• Final Curtain - This was a hard choice. I feel awful leaving off so many great S1 episodes, because I think I enjoy rewatching them more than a lot of S2, but this episode hits all the right marks. It sets the Goblin story right in an unprecedented way, creates even more intimate and personal stakes for Peter, and sets up the future of the show csad impeccably. It's a shame we never got to see what happens after this.

Honorable Mentions:

• Market Forces - Love Montana/Shocker on this show. This character just worked, and the juxtaposition of his idea of responsibility vs. Peter's great responsibility works perfectly. The fact that Peter actually ends up learning a lesson from Shocker and explaining himself to Aunt May by quoting his enemy at the end is the cherry on top. It sets up multiple plot points for the rest of the series, establishing character beats for Hammerhead (best use of the character in any media ever) and Norman Osborn.
  
• Group Therapy - Duh. What an awesome episode. Really demonstrates the ability of the writing team to weave together multiple stories from the classic, formative era of Spider-Man in a skillful and enjoyable way. Sometimes these changes can come across as offensive to fans, but on Spectacular they never did. Just the opposite, the changes made almost exclusively elevated the show.
  
• Catalysts - Probably my favorite episode not to make the "top 5" list. Excellent intro to the Green Goblin. I love his interaction with Tombstone's thugs, Tombstone's attempts to save his rep, Jonah and John's relationship, and nearly everything else. The ending, where Tombstone chides Peter for freely doing the job he was offered to be paid for, is classic Spider-Man--he can't win, for all the right reasons. The Fall Formal is great, MJ's character shines, and the dance between Peter and her at the end hits all the right beats.

Offhand, some of my favorite moments that aren't listed above are Mary Jane's introduction (and the constant "personality...ughh" joke that precedes it), pretty much anything involving Black Cat, Flash's mom embarrassing him at his party, Jonah yelling about stapling people to flagpoles, Spidey trapping Rhino on ice ("I hate you. So. Much."), all of Sandman (especially the sand castle scene), and so much more that I can't even remember right now.

Basically, this show is the best. In my opinion, it is the best portrayal of Spider-Man in any media outside of comics.

Great write up. It's true that trying to pick a top five episodes is rather tough considering there's so much good stuff here to sift through.

One episode that I feel doesn't seem to get enough love is The Invisible Hand. Rhino is so good here with his casual walk and elevator ride to the Bugle then if course he goes right into tearing the place up. He was also the only villain to think of Parker taking pics of Spider-Man would be a possible connection. And I loved how the episode basically had 3 endings. The confrontation with Tombstone was awesome as well as the iconic MJ entrance.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

So I'm curious, anything in this show that's dated yet?

The big one is cell phones. I noticed the characters call each other often but don't text as much. In 2017 it would be the other way around. That and they take cabs instead of ubers. Besides that I can't think of anything else.



Don't really like to do top fives with serialized stories,
but Intervention and Final Curtain I think those have the most suspense and emotion. They're the Two-Face and Robin's Reckoning equivalents to why the show as a whole nails Spider-Man IMO. It's what I would point to primarily when highlighting the strengths of the show.

Well, this is NY. It's like the cab capital of the world. Unless things have changed. Haven't been back there in awhile.

I love Intervention. What a charming and inventive way to tell the origin without getting bogged down by just laying out the origin's details in an A B C like manner.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Yeah, I asked about some of the more "ambiguously brown" characters, who had voice actors of color, as they normally tended to match up.

Greg responds...
1. Yes, we were thinking Indo-European for Aaron Warren and Indian-American for Miles Warren. (The theory was that the Warren moved to the U.S. while older brother Aaron was young and before Miles was born - to explain their differing accents.) Ox is Hispanic. We never specified beyond that.

That's fascinating.
In the Spider-Man Crawlspace podcast episode interviewing him, Greg Weisman mentioned choosing huge fans of Spider-Man to voice characters in the show, I wonder if the team chose to change characters ethnicity to match up the actors voicing these characters.

 

[Leenie]

I found out that lot of my friends who are very much into comic books had not even heard of this series before. I obviously recommended it to them.

One of my friends reported back to me a few days ago, saying that he had just finished watching it. He said he loved it and claimed that it is the BEST Spider-Man-related thing he's ever seen/read/watched.

Seriously, though. I can't fathom why any Spidey fan wouldn't love this gem of a show. I know a lot of people look back at the 90's series fondly, but ... Spectacular Spider-Man is the definitive Spider-Man show to watch in my eyes.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Seriously, though. I can't fathom why any Spidey fan wouldn't love this gem of a show. I know a lot of people look back at the 90's series fondly, but ... Spectacular Spider-Man is the definitive Spider-Man show to watch in my eyes.

One guy I hear from says he doesn't find the ethnic changes necessary, and the art style is not a kind he enjoys to watch. He admires what the show did well though.
As for the 90s cartoon, he hasn't seen it so far, his favorite Spidey show is one of my favorites; Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

That's fascinating.
In the Spider-Man Crawlspace podcast episode interviewing him, Greg Weisman mentioned choosing huge fans of Spider-Man to voice characters in the show, I wonder if the team chose to change characters ethnicity to match up the actors voicing these characters.

Weisman and Cook stated they changed up the races with some characters to create a more realistic, updated looking NY. There's much more diversity today than in the 60s when Spider-Man was originally created. But it seemed that many of the actors matched up with their character's appearance, for example, the actor that voiced both the Warren brothers is Indian, I think, Sha Sha Ngyuen's actress is Asian, Phil Lamarr voiced both the Robertsons, etc.

I found out that lot of my friends who are very much into comic books had not even heard of this series before. I obviously recommended it to them.

One of my friends reported back to me a few days ago, saying that he had just finished watching it. He said he loved it and claimed that it is the BEST Spider-Man-related thing he's ever seen/read/watched.

Seriously, though. I can't fathom why any Spidey fan wouldn't love this gem of a show. I know a lot of people look back at the 90's series fondly, but ... Spectacular Spider-Man is the definitive Spider-Man show to watch in my eyes.

So true.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Weisman and Cook stated they changed up the races with some characters to create a more realistic, updated looking NY. There's much more diversity today than in the 60s when Spider-Man was originally created. But it seemed that many of the actors matched up with their character's appearance, for example, the actor that voiced both the Warren brothers is Indian, I think, Sha Sha Ngyuen's actress is Asian, Phil Lamarr voiced both the Robertsons, etc.

It's weird to think that a show changed the ethnicity of some characters, while the comics seem to still be introducing white characters more than characters of other ethnic backgrounds.

 

[Mistah K88]

I made this list in the Homecoming skepticism thread, but it's a bit more relative here..

So as we know Spectacular changed the races of minor characters to increase diversity in New York.

Originally Black in comics:
Glory Grant
Randy Robertson
Robbie Robertson
Hobie Brown
Lonnie Thomson Lincoln (Tombstone)

Originally Asian in comics:
Sha-Shan Nguyen

Originally Latino in comics:
Vin Gonzalez

Changed in Spectacular Spidey:
Black
Debra Whitman
Roderick Kingsley
Fancy Dan
Dr. Nicholas Bromwell
Principal Andrew Davis
Coach Smith
Agent Joseph Wade

Latino
Liz Allan (Puerto Rican)
Mark (Raxton) Allan (Puerto Rican)
Ox

Asian
Ned Lee(ds) (Korean)
Kenny (McFarlane) “Kong”
Miles Warren (Indian)
Aaron (Raymond) Warren (Indian)

Native American
Jean DeWolff

I'd say that the show changed so many characters that none of them seemed to feel like a token. So there was no need for an "ethnic best friend" or anything like that. With the exception of Liz having a thick accent in the second episode (which all but disappeared after that epsiode), none of the characters had or did anything real stereotypical, which made things much more realistic and enjoyable. Heck some characters like Ox or the Warren bros, you wouldn't know what they were supposed to be unless you asked.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Great write up. It's true that trying to pick a top five episodes is rather tough considering there's so much good stuff here to sift through.

What are your top 5? (Sorry, don't feel like sifting through this thread lol)

One episode that I feel doesn't seem to get enough love is The Invisible Hand. Rhino is so good here with his casual walk and elevator ride to the Bugle then if course he goes right into tearing the place up. He was also the only villain to think of Parker taking pics of Spider-Man would be a possible connection. And I loved how the episode basically had 3 endings. The confrontation with Tombstone was awesome as well as the iconic MJ entrance.

Definitely up there. That's what I was saying, I just can't pick! lol It would be easier to pick a bottom 5 tbh.

One of my friends reported back to me a few days ago, saying that he had just finished watching it. He said he loved it and claimed that it is the BEST Spider-Man-related thing he's ever seen/read/watched.

I tend to agree.

Seriously, though. I can't fathom why any Spidey fan wouldn't love this gem of a show. I know a lot of people look back at the 90's series fondly, but ... Spectacular Spider-Man is the definitive Spider-Man show to watch in my eyes.

Absolutely. As someone who has fond memories of the 90s show, enjoys it, and owns it in its entirety, it doesn't come close to Spectacular.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I loved the diversification of the cast, because it didn't feel like change for the sake of change. It was done with no bragging about how up-to-date and modern it was, it was just there--much like real-world diversity.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^Yeah, I didn't feel it forced or in your face.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

What are your top 5? (Sorry, don't feel like sifting through this thread lol).

1. Gangland
2. Uncertainty Principle
3. The Invisible Hand
4. Shear Strength
5. First Steps

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Quality list.

Gah, the show was so good. It's impossible to have a bad list, honestly.

 

[zeptron]

I loved the diversification of the cast, because it didn't feel like change for the sake of change. It was done with no bragging about how up-to-date and modern it was, it was just there--much like real-world diversity.

Believe it not, I remember coming across one person that was actually complaining about characters like Liz or Ned having their races being changed. Even though they aren't major or iconic characters in the Spider-man universe. He was making it seem like the show had made Gwen Asian or JJJ African American.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Quality list.

Gah, the show was so good. It's impossible to have a bad list, honestly.

Yeah, definitely. I really can't argue with someone that has a completely different list than myself. So many of the episodes are so good that I'd probably have most of those in my top 5 too. For example, your pick of Natural Selection. A brilliant episode for several reasons. And imo is deserving of a top 5 spot.

 

[Mistah K88]

One thing that I think this series did the best was the balancing of Peter's life vs. the crime fighting action of Spider-Man.

We all know that Spider-Man has one of the best non superhero supporting casts in all comic-dom. We have his peers at school, his colleagues at work, and even Aunt May at home.

Now, while we've talked about villains, and even supporting and secondary characters. However what would you say about Peter himself? For a 16 year old, Peter is generally pretty mature for his age in this series... most of the mistakes he did make I could see college aged people making... was he perhaps TOO mature for someone in his age range? Most other teenage iterations of Spider-Man that I've seen (with possibly the exception of the original, but that was quite a different time period compared to more modern times), you could tell they were essentially young kids trying to do the right thing, but here I feel there is a bit of a feeling of maturity he exhibits here. The fact that college aged Betty Brant (20) was even thinking of entertaining him by going to his little school dance speaks volumes.