Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[SpideyJJ]

Again, this whole kid emphasis is doing this new take no favors at all.

I'll continue to point it out, but why do we have great series that feature a young Spider-Man in Ultimate Spider-Man, The Spectacular Spider-Man and SPIDEY (that should all be used for research for a teenaged Spider-Man) that manage to balance the kid and balance the Spider-Man/Peter aspect yet they go in this direction? Oh, wait..

I think the problem is that their projecting what their idea of a 15 year old is onto a character with an already set personality. It's actually pretty dumb tbh. Like it's one thing to shove Stark into his mythos, but to ignore responsibility, arguably the most important facet of his character in the name of 'a fun relatable kid' is just down right off putting.

I mean, imagine the outrage of DC decided to reduce/neglect the facet of justice in Batman for the sake of appealing to the average adult....

 

[Dark Raven]

Even Iron Man didn't have a fear of flying or heights when he went up in his armour for his maiden flight in Iron Man 1. Why does Peter have to?

Usually kids are said to be less fearful of certain things and will take more dares than adults who realise the danger.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Riverdale is on so later

I'll be watching it tomorrow. By the way, there's a Riverdale sub-forum on here just in case you didn't know.

http://forums.superherohype.com/forumdisplay.php?f=799

I think the problem is that their projecting what their idea of a 15 year old is onto a character with an already set personality. It's actually pretty dumb tbh. Like it's one thing to shove Stark into his mythos, but to ignore responsibility, arguably the most important facet of his character in the name of 'a fun relatable kid' is just down right off putting.

Things like that are the reason why Dan Slott is still on Spider-Man and the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon was a thing.

I mean, imagine the outrage if DC decided to reduce/neglect the facet of justice in Batman for the sake of appealing to the average adult....

Oh, it'd be quite a spectacle.

 

[SpideyJJ]

Lol at this point, my Spider-Man interests are with the new PS4 game, and the two new ongoing titles (Spectacular & Master Planner). The cartoon may be okay, but the whole 'Spider team' thing doesn't appeal to me at all. Still, I'll check it out to see how it goes. The main title & the movie are at the bottom of that list for me

 

[PeterBenParker]

Lol at this point, my Spider-Man interests are with the new PS4 game, and the two new ongoing titles (Spectacular & Master Planner). The cartoon may be okay, but the whole 'Spider team' thing doesn't appeal to me at all. Still, I'll check it out to see how it goes. The main title & the movie are at the bottom of that list for me

• Spider-Man PS4
• Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
• Spider-Man: Master Plan
• Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man
• Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Marvel's Spider-Man
• The Amazing Slott Spider-Man

Pretty much how I'd rank every newer Spider-Man stuff so far.

 

[SpideyJJ]

• Spider-Man PS4
• Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
• Spider-Man: Master Plan
• Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man
• Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Marvel's Spider-Man
• The Amazing Slott Spider-Man

Pretty much how I'd rank every newer Spider-Man stuff so far.

swap Marvel's Spider-Man and Homecoming, then you've got my list

 

[2kt09]

• Spider-Man PS4
• Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows
• Spider-Man: Master Plan
• Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man
• Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider
• Spider-Man: Homecoming
• Marvel's Spider-Man
• The Amazing Slott Spider-Man

Pretty much how I'd rank every newer Spider-Man stuff so far.

have you read any of Spidey yet?

 

[Shikamaru]

It seems to me that while they're not doing the origin, this story has the same issue as the origin would: Spidey doesn't become the Spidey we know till the very end.

Which in a lot of ways is worse IMO. The Spider-Man origin, though overdone, is still one of the best Spider-Man stories of all time. This story on the other hand I don't seem to be as engaged in.

 

[SpideyJJ]

Agreed. When Feige talked about how Peter would be contemplating what kind of hero he wants to be, I thought that would be his origin in a way. He said he's was gonna figure out whether he wanted to be like the Avengers, or become his own man and in the wake of Civil War, that would have worked as a great arc. Especially with how both sides had their own merits and shortcomings, and that being Peter's first encounter with the Avengers it could have disillusioned him a bit in regards to them, and left him contemplating whether to be more like Stark and adhere to authority & oversight, or more like Cap and be more for freedom to help anyone in need at anytime, while he slowly becomes his own hero. It could have been an awesome character arc as well as a good continuation of the ideological conflict in Civil War, with Peter as the vessel of debate between the two not emotionally involved like the others.

Instead, he's being regressed in order for the
to use him getting to the level of the normal Spider-Man as growth & an origin story of its own.

 

[harryoscop]

Agreed. When Feige talked about how Peter would be contemplating what kind of hero he wants to be, I thought that would be his origin in a way. He said he's was gonna figure out whether he wanted to be like the Avengers, or become his own man and in the wake of Civil War, that would have worked as a great arc. Especially with how both sides had their own merits and shortcomings, and that being Peter's first encounter with the Avengers it could have disillusioned him a bit in regards to them, and left him contemplating whether to be more like Stark and adhere to authority & oversight, or more like Cap and be more for freedom to help anyone in need at anytime, while he slowly becomes his own hero. It could have been an awesome character arc as well as a good continuation of the ideological conflict in Civil War, with Peter as the vessel of debate between the two not emotionally involved like the others.

Instead, he's being regressed in order for the
to use him getting to the level of the normal Spider-Man as growth & an origin story of its own.

That would've been soo much better than what we're getting in Homecoming.

 

[harryoscop]

I think the problem is that their projecting what their idea of a 15 year old is onto a character with an already set personality. It's actually pretty dumb tbh. Like it's one thing to shove Stark into his mythos, but to ignore responsibility, arguably the most important facet of his character in the name of 'a fun relatable kid' is just down right off putting.

I mean, imagine the outrage of DC decided to reduce/neglect the facet of justice in Batman for the sake of appealing to the average adult....

What a 15 year old is to them is a far cry from the actual thing. From what we've seen of Ganke & everybody else, they're all closer to real kids than the wide-eyed, innocent act Peter has going on.) But that's not even the main problem. It's like you said, they're overwriting an existing character & changing him to suit THEIR story. Watts doesn't want Ben in the movie because he doesn't want Peter grieving because it "takes away from the fun, light-hearted tone of the kid being a kid" think about that statement

It's like you said

 

[PeterBenParker]

have you read any of Spidey yet?

Yup, I loved it and is why Robbie Thompson's new story is so high on my list. t:

Still gotta buy Vol. 2 even though I finished the series. Lacking on a bit of my collection. The Captain America story was easily my favorite with the Electro story being a close second.

 

[Matt Parker]

Some interesting points are being brought up here. Mind if I play devil's advocate?
I think that maybe (and I obviously havent seen the movie yet) the idea isn't that Peter isn't being responsible, but more that he's having fun being responsible, if that makes sense. He's fighting crime and saving people and he feels happy. He's honoring Uncle Ben's memory by using his abilities to do good and his alter ego is starting to get some big time recognition. Maybe he's in the honeymoon phase. He hasn't realized the toll that leading a double life is going to take on him. He hasn't faced any huge battles that he couldn't win. He's been pulling people from building fires and catching thieves. Being Spider-Man hasn't yet become a burden yet. I think maybe that's what the idea is here. I don't think Peter realizes how hard being Spider-Man is going to be or how much of a toll it will take on him until the ferry scene. That's where Peter realizes that doing the right thing isn't easy.
I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by debating you guys. I just like talking about Spider-Man

 

[2kt09]

Some interesting points are being brought up here. Mind if I play devil's advocate?
I think that maybe (and I obviously havent seen the movie yet) the idea isn't that Peter isn't being responsible, but more that he's having fun being responsible, if that makes sense. He's fighting crime and saving people and he feels happy. He's honoring Uncle Ben's memory by using his abilities to do good and his alter ego is starting to get some big time recognition. Maybe he's in the honeymoon phase. He hasn't realized the toll that leading a double life is going to take on him. He hasn't faced any huge battles that he couldn't win. He's been pulling people from building fires and catching thieves. Being Spider-Man hasn't yet become a burden yet. I think maybe that's what the idea is here. I don't think Peter realizes how hard being Spider-Man is going to be or how much of a toll it will take on him until the ferry scene. That's where Peter realizes that doing the right thing isn't easy.
I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by debating you guys. I just like talking about Spider-Man

Never.
The insight is much appreciated.

 

[harryoscop]

Some interesting points are being brought up here. Mind if I play devil's advocate?
I think that maybe (and I obviously havent seen the movie yet) the idea isn't that Peter isn't being responsible, but more that he's having fun being responsible, if that makes sense. He's fighting crime and saving people and he feels happy. He's honoring Uncle Ben's memory by using his abilities to do good and his alter ego is starting to get some big time recognition. Maybe he's in the honeymoon phase. He hasn't realized the toll that leading a double life is going to take on him. He hasn't faced any huge battles that he couldn't win. He's been pulling people from building fires and catching thieves. Being Spider-Man hasn't yet become a burden yet. I think maybe that's what the idea is here. I don't think Peter realizes how hard being Spider-Man is going to be or how much of a toll it will take on him until the ferry scene. That's where Peter realizes that doing the right thing isn't easy.
I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by debating you guys. I just like talking about Spider-Man

That's a good point. Holland said there will be consequences to being Spider-Man. I just wish Stark wasn't being used as an instrument for Peter's realization because it comes off as an adult taking away his child's favorite toy. And I wish your idea would be be illistrated more than "hE's beIN a 15 yearss KiD!!! Fun! FuN!!"FUN!!!"

No, man, you're good. Nothing wrong with a different view point/perspective being brought in at all

 

[SpideyJJ]

Some interesting points are being brought up here. Mind if I play devil's advocate?
I think that maybe (and I obviously havent seen the movie yet) the idea isn't that Peter isn't being responsible, but more that he's having fun being responsible, if that makes sense. He's fighting crime and saving people and he feels happy. He's honoring Uncle Ben's memory by using his abilities to do good and his alter ego is starting to get some big time recognition. Maybe he's in the honeymoon phase. He hasn't realized the toll that leading a double life is going to take on him. He hasn't faced any huge battles that he couldn't win. He's been pulling people from building fires and catching thieves. Being Spider-Man hasn't yet become a burden yet. I think maybe that's what the idea is here. I don't think Peter realizes how hard being Spider-Man is going to be or how much of a toll it will take on him until the ferry scene. That's where Peter realizes that doing the right thing isn't easy.
I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by debating you guys. I just like talking about Spider-Man

Definitely some food for thought there, mate. Hopefully you're closer to the truth than I was, that could be a valid point (him not having faced serious strain from his heroic activities). Vulture is after all, the first major villain he's gonna face...so I suppose it would make sense for him to realize that it's not all fun & games, plus him donning his old suit could be symbolic of the realization of the importance of him being a hero and why he became one in the first place.

Btw, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have a healthy debate with someone who's more on the fence with what we've seen so far without them being condescending, not to mention you make valid & interesting arguments (unlike others). You've been a gem of an addition to the hype!

 

[harryoscop]

Definitely some food for thought there, mate. Hopefully you're closer to the truth than I was, that could be a valid point (him not having faced serious strain from his heroic activities). Vulture is after all, the first major villain he's gonna face...so I suppose it would make sense for him to realize that it's not all fun & games, plus him donning his old suit could be symbolic of the realization of the importance of him being a hero and why he became one in the first place.

Btw, I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have a healthy debate with someone who's more on the fence with what we've seen so far without them being condescending, not to mention you make valid & interesting arguments (unlike others). You've been a gem of an addition to the hype!

Here here

Also love the possible symbolism of him wearing the homemade suit again

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

MP, you keep coming with sound logic and hopeful optimism. I love it and second the opinion of everyone else. Well thought out paragraph, I certainly hope you're right!

 

[The Duh]

Some interesting points are being brought up here. Mind if I play devil's advocate?
I think that maybe (and I obviously havent seen the movie yet) the idea isn't that Peter isn't being responsible, but more that he's having fun being responsible, if that makes sense. He's fighting crime and saving people and he feels happy. He's honoring Uncle Ben's memory by using his abilities to do good and his alter ego is starting to get some big time recognition. Maybe he's in the honeymoon phase. He hasn't realized the toll that leading a double life is going to take on him. He hasn't faced any huge battles that he couldn't win. He's been pulling people from building fires and catching thieves. Being Spider-Man hasn't yet become a burden yet. I think maybe that's what the idea is here. I don't think Peter realizes how hard being Spider-Man is going to be or how much of a toll it will take on him until the ferry scene. That's where Peter realizes that doing the right thing isn't easy.
I hope I'm not being too obnoxious by debating you guys. I just like talking about Spider-Man

I thought of something pretty similar to yours - it isn't so much that he's having fun superhero-ing around (although he definitely IS having fun), it's more that he can't stop thinking about superhero-ing 24/7, a stark (pun intended) contrast to Raimi/Webb Peter who had other struggles to worry about being Spider-Man the entire time. Hence in the trailers, you have Tony telling him to stay out of trouble, stay on the ground, be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and Aunt May telling him to stop weighing the world on his shoulders. It's admirable for Peter to want to go saving people every time, but even then superhero-ing 24/7 WILL take a toll on Peter, as Tony can personally attest to (it cost him his relationship with Pepper, for instance). They've emphasized in interviews that Peter going to Germany in Civil War was such a thrilling experience for him that going back to a normal, mundane life is going to be lame. Hence, the whole balance life between being a superhero and a normal high school kid aspect of Homecoming.

 

[Matt Parker]

Thanks for the kind words guys. Being on the hype has been a pleasure.

 

[Golgo-13]

Sheesh, I've been trying to be more optimistic but all the details we've gotten are making it harder for me to be so. I just hope it doesn't require Iron Man to teach him about friggin responsibility. Maybe if after Stark takes the suit away he remembers what Uncle Ben said about great power and great responsibility being what inspires him to take his old suit to fight Vulture rather than 'Mr Stark' confiscating the suit being his way of teaching Pete about it.

I'm predicting guys, as much as Marvel loves IM now, i'm willing to bet that Stark is the one who gives him the 'With Great responsibility……" line. The whole taking away of the suit shot we saw in the trailer has that speech written all over it.

As far as him being afraid of heights; the side effects of the spider bite that gives him his powers is sopposed to have mutated his equilibrium and senses; so it doesn't make sense that he has a fear.

 

[Dark Raven]

I bet this Spider-Man is still going to be short sighted. And the spider powers won't have cured him of any other ailments, so he's still going to have repetitive strain injury on his middle (webshooting) finger, arachnophobia and a torn rotator cuff.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I actually think showing Peter become accustomed to stuff we as fans take for granted is kind of interesting. A young Spider-Man who has to take a deep breath before jumping off a skyscraper is actually kind of cool to me. It gives him a chance to grow and even humanizes him in a new way. It's kind of like stage fright; even rock stars get nervous before they get on stage, but once they're playing they're in their element. Having Peter start out with that same sort of trepidation makes sense; no one is going to be 100% cool with such a massive transition. It's not about Peter not liking webswinging or heights as he's Spider-Man, it's his whole deal; but showing him work through that "stage fright" and see it evolve into the sort of adrenaline junkie that we know is fine with me, especially considering every other movie totally jumps past the emotional transition of Peter becoming Spider-Man in that way.

 

[harryoscop]

I'd probably have no problem with this route if Stark wasn't holding Peter's hand through every step of becoming the iconic Spider-Man. I mean, he put a fricking "training wheels" lock on the suit, he shows up to clean up Peter's mess & teaches him lessons he should ALREADY know! Why couldn't Stark just give him the suit and let him figure it out from there? Why does he have such a big presence in his life? Peter NEVER had another hero's shoulder to lean on when things got tough. It was always him against the world, a child thrown out in to the cruel, hard world having to learn how to fend for himself. Peter's journey should be his ALONE. If Stark wasn't so involved, we could of have an Ultimate dynamic of just Peter & his confident

 

[Golgo-13]

I actually think showing Peter become accustomed to stuff we as fans take for granted is kind of interesting. A young Spider-Man who has to take a deep breath before jumping off a skyscraper is actually kind of cool to me. It gives him a chance to grow and even humanizes him in a new way. It's kind of like stage fright; even rock stars get nervous before they get on stage, but once they're playing they're in their element. Having Peter start out with that same sort of trepidation makes sense; no one is going to be 100% cool with such a massive transition. It's not about Peter not liking webswinging or heights as he's Spider-Man, it's his whole deal; but showing him work through that "stage fright" and see it evolve into the sort of adrenaline junkie that we know is fine with me, especially considering every other movie totally jumps past the emotional transition of Peter becoming Spider-Man in that way.

The problem with Spider-Man learning his powers in Homecoming is that in CW he seemed to have a pretty good grip over every aspects of his powers; he was comfortable wall crawling, with the acrobatics, the web-slinging from high places along with his super human strength and using his spider-sense. The only way it would make sense, is if Homecoimng takes place before CW. So Tony gives him the suit, then the events of Homecoming occur, then Tony brings him in for the CW events.