Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[Dark Raven]

The problem with Spider-Man learning his powers in Homecoming is that in CW he seemed to have a pretty good grip over every aspects of his powers; he was comfortable wall crawling, with the acrobatics, the web-slinging from high places along with his super human strength and using his spider-sense. The only way it would make sense, is if Homecoimng takes place before CW. So Tony gives him the suit, then the events of Homecoming occur, then Tony brings him in for the CW events.

But that doesn't seem to fit with the timeline. Tony seemed to need him urgently for the airport battle. I don't think there would've been time for Peter to do all the things in Homecoming before going to Germany. Tony needed him immediately, not by the end of the week.

 

[harryoscop]

it all takes place a few months after CW. He also seemed pretty mature as Peter & had a firm grasp of responsibility: "When you can do the things that I can... but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you". Did Watts & Carroll retcon these things?

 

[Spider-Who?]

The problem with Spider-Man learning his powers in Homecoming is that in CW he seemed to have a pretty good grip over every aspects of his powers; he was comfortable wall crawling, with the acrobatics, the web-slinging from high places along with his super human strength and using his spider-sense. The only way it would make sense, is if Homecoimng takes place before CW. So Tony gives him the suit, then the events of Homecoming occur, then Tony brings him in for the CW events.

Getting over a reasonable fear of swinging 600 feet in the air all over the city isn't the same as learning his powers. I also don't think it's the same as what he does in Civil War, where the highest he was shown to swing was around 50-60 feet when battling Giant Man.

As you say, Civil War showed he's got a handle on his powers. No argument there, but having the ability to do crazy things doesn't automatically make you 100% comfortable doing those things all the time. And remember experiencing fear of something does not mean he doesn't want to do that stuff. It's just an internal hurdle to get over; overcoming that fear and seeing it become a thing he loves and is totally comfortable with could be a cool take we haven't seen before. I have problems with this movie, but this is isn't one of them.

 

[Spider-Who?]

it all takes place a few months after CW. He also seemed pretty mature as Peter & had a firm grasp of responsibility: "When you can do the things that I can... but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you". Did Watts & Carroll retcon these things?

Prior to civil war, Peter was clearly a "baby super hero". In Civil War, he got to play with the big boys, and that likely kick starts his ego, thinking he can and should be doing more than saving cats from trees. It's still about using his powers for good, but Tony likely sees it as Peter biting off more than he can chew, which, we will obviously see is not the case for our old web head.

 

[harryoscop]

So I watched a few episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man and it was meh. I can't really hate it anymore now that's it's over. But what I did notice were how many parallels there were to Homecoming's interpretation. Not just in terms of Spider-Man's character but Peter as well. And the suit, the coming of age aspect & the idolizing Iron Man manure.

It also got more about Spider-Man in general right than Homecoming has so far. So, go figure. The version that everybody hates is closer to the source material than Marvel Studios version of the character.

 

[Flint Marko]

It also got more about Spider-Man in general right than Homecoming has so far. So, go figure. The version that everybody hates is closer to the source material than Marvel Studios version of the character.

Thanks for another fantastic addition to the list. I can't wait for July.

 

[harryoscop]

Thanks for another fantastic addition to the list. I can't wait for July.

No problem. Only two months left until I'm proven right about everything.

 

[Flint Marko]

No problem. Only two months left until I'm proven right about everything.

About everything? Good luck with even one.

Spoiler

- "Spider-man wanting to join the Avengers is a slap in the face to Ben's legacy"
- "Uncle Ben doesn't exist"
- “Tony is going to take Uncle Ben’s place”
- “Spider-man is more obsessed with being an Avenger than saving lives”
- "Avi Arad cared about the fans"
- "Peter isn't independent anymore"
- "Spider-man in the comics never wanted to be an Avenger"
- "This version of Peter isn't that intelligent"
- "A 15-year old inventing web-shooters and web-fluid that catch the eye of Tony Stark isn't really a big deal"
- "Peter acting like a star-struck kid around the Avengers is unrealistic"
- "May didn't seem to be distraught about Ben's death judging by how friendly she got with Stark."
- "The director is wrong in saying that this movie is going to smaller-scale and more personal, because Iron Man is in it"
- "They're not going to explore Spider-man's mythology in Homecoming"
- "The vulture may as well be a new character"
- “USM is more faithful to the source material than homecoming”
- "The changes made in ASM are small potatoes compared to what changes Marvel has made"

And my personal favorite, which you said after almost all of these quotes:

- "We don't know crap about this movie"

 

[Golgo-13]

But that doesn't seem to fit with the timeline. Tony seemed to need him urgently for the airport battle. I don't think there would've been time for Peter to do all the things in Homecoming before going to Germany. Tony needed him immediately, not by the end of the week.

I know, i was just reaching. I was just trying to justify this ridiculous fear of heights/learning his powers thing.

 

[ironwez20]

So I watched a few episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man and it was meh. I can't really hate it anymore now that's it's over. But what I did notice were how many parallels there were to Homecoming's interpretation. Not just in terms of Spider-Man's character but Peter as well. And the suit, the coming of age aspect & the idolizing Iron Man manure.

It also got more about Spider-Man in general right than Homecoming has so far. So, go figure. The version that everybody hates is closer to the source material than Marvel Studios version of the character.

Have you ever heard of wating for the movie to arrive before you make a silly judgement like? Two trailers came out and you say the wildest things. I understand skepticism but saying ultimate spiderman is done better than spiderman homecoming is prety damn silly considering all the stupid crap ultimate spiderman done. Your gonna be right about 3 things and thats it. Guarantee.

 

[Bearzooka]

About everything?

- "The changes made in ASM are small potatoes compared to what changes Marvel has made"

It's pretty funny to see the list grow more and more, but this I can kind of agree with.

IMO, the ASM series should've been called "Ultimate Spider-man", as I feel those movies shared more with those comics.

And while I trust Marvel won't **** up their flagship character, there are things I am skeptical of.

 

[2kt09]

So I watched a few episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man and it was meh. I can't really hate it anymore now that's it's over. But what I did notice were how many parallels there were to Homecoming's interpretation. Not just in terms of Spider-Man's character but Peter as well. And the suit, the coming of age aspect & the idolizing Iron Man manure.

It also got more about Spider-Man in general right than Homecoming has so far. So, go figure. The version that everybody hates is closer to the source material than Marvel Studios version of the character.

USM had more hours of content for anyone to claim it got more right about Spider-Man. In any case, most of what you just posted is baloney.

IMO, the ASM series should've been called "Ultimate Spider-man", as I feel those movies shared more with those comics.

And while I trust Marvel won't **** up their flagship character, there are things I am skeptical of.

I must have read some other "Ultimate Spider-Man" comics.
Homecoming is far more "Ultimate" for better or for worse.

 

[Bearzooka]

I must have read some other "Ultimate Spider-Man" comics.
Homecoming is far more "Ultimate" for better or for worse.

Oscorp developing the spider?

That stupid zero algorithm formula?

Pete getting bit at Oscorp?

Young Aunt May?

Norman turning into an actual goblin?

Mech suit Rhino?

Electro's appearance?

...guess u did read some other USM.

 

[2kt09]

Oscorp developing the spider?

That stupid zero algorithm formula?

Pete getting bit at Oscorp?

Young Aunt May?

Norman turning into an actual goblin?

Mech suit Rhino?

Electro's appearance?

...guess u did read some other USM.

Sure.
Barely remember it.
Sure.
Sally Field is 70 years old.
Harry mutated.
Sure.
Sure.
Your examples seem perfunctory.

In comparison, you have Homecoming taking on "Ultimate" on two-folds - the comics and the cartoon
We'll see beyond perfunctory callbacks once the flick comes out.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I like to think the Raimi trilogy was largely 616 with some sprinkles of Ultimate and/or TAS.

I like to think the Webb duology was largely Ultimate with some pinches of 616 and/or TSSM.

I like to think Homecoming will be Ultimate comics and Ultimate cartoon with some helpings of Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

[harryoscop]

I personally don't see anything from the first saga of Ultimate comics besides young Aunt May. I'd be all over this movie if that was a strong source of inspiration (see avatar) what I see is, Miles Morales and the worst elements from the Ultimate cartoon.

USM is terrible but everything else around Peter is classic Spider-Man​ besides the addition of WT, IF, LC and Nova. Flash is classic, MJ and Harry are there. And Midtown is not a science highschool exclusive to students with super high GPAs

 

[2kt09]

I like to think the Raimi trilogy was largely 616 with some sprinkles of Ultimate and/or TAS.

I like to think the Webb duology was largely Ultimate with some pinches of 616 and/or TSSM.

I like to think Homecoming will be Ultimate comics and Ultimate cartoon with some helpings of Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man.

I heard substantial rumblings of Raimi's being 616 from the older era and TASM's being more contemporary 616 on a couple other forums I used to frequent.

Homecoming is the only one I can personally attest to.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's pretty funny to see the list grow more and more, but this I can kind of agree with.

IMO, the ASM series should've been called "Ultimate Spider-man", as I feel those movies shared more with those comics.

And while I trust Marvel won't **** up their flagship character, there are things I am skeptical of.

There are things I'm skeptical about, but we're going to have to actually see the film before we can make any sort of call as to which is more faithful to the source material. The ASM series set the bar super low with the numerous significant changes to the core aspects of the character (hell, Uncle Ben's death doesn't even really factor into Peter learning responsibility, it just kind of happens, which is the biggest betrayal possible to the source material) so Homecoming can change as many supporting characters around as they like and still comfortably be the more faithful of the two series.

 

[harryoscop]

There are things I'm skeptical about, but we're going to have to actually see the film before we can make any sort of call as to which is more faithful to the source material. The ASM series set the bar super low with the numerous significant changes to the core aspects of the character (hell, Uncle Ben's death doesn't even really factor into Peter learning responsibility, it just kind of happens, which is the biggest betrayal possible to the source material) so Homecoming can change as many supporting characters around as they like and still comfortably be the more faithful of the two series.

Meanwhile on Homecoming's side of the staple: the character of Uncle Ben is reduced to a conversational mention and won't even make an actual appearance because the producer of the movie thinks having him in the movie will take away from the stupid "fun tone of a kid" he's trying to convey. Peter doesn't think about With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, he thinks about having fun & being like Tony Stark.

TASM is 5x more faithful to the comics than Homecoming will ever be. Add everything up and that's the reality. Supporting characters DO matter because they're the ones that make up the Mythology. Homecoming is close to FFINO in the sense that dozens of liberties were taken with this beloved property. Marvel knowing nobody besides people who have been with the character for years would care.

You asked me a few weeks ago why I'm okay with TASM's portrayel of the origin story? Well, the truth is, because it could have been much worse and much less faithful and dismissive of that important aspect as evidenced from Homecoming.

 

[Bearzooka]

Your examples seem perfunctory.

Perhaps they are good sir, as I have not read the great American novel, otherwise known as Ultimate Spider-man, in a few years. These were the few things I could remember off the top of my head.

In comparison, you have Homecoming taking on "Ultimate" on two-folds - the comics and the cartoon
We'll see beyond perfunctory callbacks once the flick comes out.

As you have given no examples and taken a "wait and see" approach, I say prove it... take a poop in front of us.

 

[harryoscop]

Yeah, I'd like to see a few examples as well, 2K. I'm very well-versed on the original Ultimate comics and I see nothing taken from it besides a younger Aunt May who is May INO in this movie.

Unless you're talking about Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man aka Miles Morales

 

[PeterBenParker]

I heard substantial rumblings of Raimi's being 616 from the older era and TASM's being more contemporary 616 on a couple other forums I used to frequent.

Homecoming is the only one I can personally attest to.

While I could see that, I think Ultimate was TASM's strongest source of inspiration. The parents focus, Peter having a confidant-turned-love interest, Oscorp being the big bad of the entire franchise, Harry Osborn getting Eddie Brock Jr.'s story (with some tweaks to make it fit Harry's character), etc. etc.

take a poop in front of us.

 

[ironwez20]

Meanwhile on Homecoming's side of the staple: the character of Uncle Ben is reduced to a conversational mention and won't even make an actual appearance because the producer of the movie thinks having him in the movie will take away from the stupid "fun tone of a kid" he's trying to convey. Peter doesn't think about With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, he thinks about having fun & being like Tony Stark.

TASM is 5x more faithful to the comics than Homecoming will ever be. Add everything up and that's the reality. Supporting characters DO matter because they're the ones that make up the Mythology. Homecoming is close to FFINO in the sense that dozens of liberties were taken with this beloved property. Marvel knowing nobody besides people who have been with the character for years would care.

You asked me a few weeks ago why I'm okay with TASM's portrayel of the origin story? Well, the truth is, because it could have been much worse and much less faithful and dismissive of that important aspect as evidenced from Homecoming.

Tasm is more faithful then homecoming? Homecoming is like ffino? This isn't skeptism, that's just insane. Like seriously, I get your complaints but ffino? Holy crap dude you jumped the gun. So many of your guesses were proven wrong but you still say the same thing. You act like they are making him some sort of thing that isn't Spider-Man. Everything that makes Spider-Man is there it's just the stuff around him that sucks. For example school and Ned Leeds

 

[Richard Grayson]

He's not too wrong about how TASM isn't any less faithful than Homecoming. ASM had a ton of problems but adherence wasn't really one of them. Homecoming seems to be taking most of its cues from the Miles Morales comics. If that's really more faithful than Ultimate, then more power to you


Homecoming seems to be doing its most thing for the most part which I'm ok with but I don't buy the argument that it's the most comic book accurate incarnation of the character because there's nothing to point to that

 

[ironwez20]

He's not too wrong about how TASM isn't any less faithful than Homecoming. ASM had a ton of problems but adherence wasn't really one of them. Homecoming seems to be taking most of its cues from the Miles Morales comics. If that's really more faithful than Ultimate, then more power to you


Homecoming seems to be doing its most thing for the most part which I'm ok with but I don't buy the argument that it's the most comic book accurate incarnation of the character because there's nothing to point to that

We have no clue if it is or isn't yet. Also it's in no way going to be 100 percent faithful. It'll take liberties just like the other movies but will those liberties be good is the question