Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[Poppy]

And for that, I blame Sony for forcing a reboot with the TASM franchise.

Both Sony and Marvel are to blame I think. My main problem is with the story and the characterization of Peter and we know Marvel was in charge of the creative decisions.

If they wanted to be so different, they could have simply follow the comics (no need for Ben death scene tho) because the other two sagas weren't that faithful to the source material.

Instead they changed Peter, focusing way too much on him being a kid/incompentent, created an original character Michelle, add Ganke etc.

All they had to do to stand out was to follow the comics. But the MCU makes a lot of changes all the time, look at 'Civil War'.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I'm not sure about all of you but for me, if Peter Parker was a few weeks into being Spider-Man, all of this could be easier to stomach.

Still wouldn't be ideal and a little disappointing, but I'd give them more of the benefit of the doubt and it would explain in their narrative why their Peter would need an upgrade and have a hero worship going on.

 

[harryoscop]

But he's Spider-Man done right!

One who has a tech suit, obsessed with the Avengers, acts like a 13 year old and vlogs...

No matter what the MCU did with the character, it was ALWAYS going to be praised as "Spider-Man finally done right!!!" because it's the MCU.

Which sucks tbh. In the 9 years since it's first movie, Marvel has definitely earned the right to have audiences optimistic for each release. They consistently deliver good/great & fun CBM's that anyone can enjoy without being much of a comic fan, and that comic fans can enjoy because of good represenation of their favorite characters. Even the less favourable movies in their roster are still well received as decent/good movies & not complete messes. Were there changes to the characters & their worlds? Yes, it's to be expected with literally any big screen adaptation of a preexisting property. But the changes were done well, and the spirit of the characters & their worlds were still recognizable.

With Spider-Man, from what I've seen there's more things that are unrecognizable than things which are. We have a 15/16 year old vlogging clueless Stark fanboy who just wants to please his mentor & father figure (oh sorry, BIG BROTHER figure) while swinging around in his Stark tech suit going to a specialized school on his Stark scholarship after fighting against one half of the premier Super Hero team on Earth (who've saved the world multiple times, once in his home city of New York) for no reason other than to impress Stark (Tom's own words) while not knowing what's going on. He has a meme loving obese best pal who's help he needs to figure out his Stark suit while having to deal with a nerdy cyber bully who's physically smaller than himself & some hipster type chick who seems to have a crush on him but picks on him, not to mention his young hip aunt who's more like a sister to him.

If you read that description without context, would any of that sound like Peter/Spider-Man to you? Because it doesn't to me and that's what bothers me. I don't doubt that Marvel can make good movies, they've proven it time & time again (and I genuinely believe Homecoming will be a good movie). But will it be a Spider-Man movie?





It's really disheartening, but it is what it is. At least public opinion of Spider-Man isn't as bad as it was 3 years ago

Preach.

 

[harryoscop]

I'm not sure about all of you but for me, if Peter Parker was a few weeks into being Spider-Man, all of this could be easier to stomach.

Still wouldn't be ideal and a little disappointing, but I'd give them more of the benefit of the doubt and it would explain in their narrative why their Peter would need an upgrade and have a hero worship going on.

I know right!! "He doesn't know how to use his powers that well", "He's nowhere near the finished article when the film ends" etc he's been Spider-Man for EIGHT MONTHS!! How the heck is he still on a huge learning curve??

I could even buy it more if it were three months into his powers but they're talking like this is a baby steps Spider-Man when he should have a good grasp of what he can do & what he can't. He shouldn't be so clueless

 

[PeterBenParker]

How the heck is he still on a huge learning curve??

Well obviously it's because he was fighting thugs his entire tenure as Spider-Man so he never stepped foot into the big boy world.

I could even buy it more if it were three months into his powers but they're talking like this is a baby steps Spider-Man when he should have a good grasp of what he can do & what he can't.

As we've said before, other iterations had him be around for less and he was still more experienced. I'll just never grasp why they went in this direction when they had a perfect excuse to jump us right into a great Spider-Man who was doing his own thing before an Avenger stumbled upon him.

Also would've been a smart way of showing us that he faced villains (they don't have any plans for) to further enhance he's the Spider-Man.

 

[Micromind]

My biggest problem with the current iteration of Spider-Man is that they have made his suit a tad too much hi-tech, what with AI, tracers, and whatnot.

Then there's the wholly unnecessary 'Avengers' angle forced into his origin story whereas the old characters are missing. I could say more but I have lost interest to some extent.

 

[X Knight]

the latest trailer proves that they got the wisecracking/quipping aspect down.

however, the high-tech Stark suit is just yuck. pure yuck.

that suit needs to be gone by the end of the film, with Peter coming up with his own ( less high tech ) design.

 

[Herofan]

If they wanted to be so different, they could have simply follow the comics (no need for Ben death scene tho) because the other two sagas weren't that faithful to the source material.

I thought the Raimi films were pretty close, a main way to be closer would be to have less focus on the love interest which general audiences probably wouldn't like.

 

[John Locke]

I've tried to stay hyped but they might as well change the theme song to "Does whatever Stark says he can" at this point.

 

[_Superman_]

My problem with this movie is they more or less lifted Miles Morales story and world for the most part and just gave it to Peter Parker. Which is what I think is wrong.

 

[2kt09]

My problem with this movie is they more or less lifted Miles Morales story and world for the most part and just gave it to Peter Parker. Which is what I think is wrong.

That's their way of appeasing those fans.
Homecoming is really just to get everyone else familiarized so the animated flick will make $$

 

[ironwez20]

Anybody else hate how the suit glows? That's so dumb. What happened to the spidey from the raimi films who gets a rip in his suit and must sow it back up cause he doesn't want to reveal who he is. There really is no sense of struggle with this Spider-Man. That's what I don't like. Spider-Man always struggles but at the end of the day he still fights for the people. That's just me. Seems like he has everything handed to him.

 

[PeterBenParker]

that suit needs to be gone by the end of the film, with Peter coming up with his own ( less high tech ) design.

The only issue with that now is that it could be seen as a regression. Quote from Reddit subreddit /r/movies:

See, this is a comforting idea and all, but you can't just go back to classic Spider-Man after all of this. He already has the connections.

Even if he gives up the suit, you will always have it in the back of your mind that he is capable of contacting Tony and getting his help. Not to say Tony will be his dependable sidekick or whatever, but simply knowing that option is there takes away the stakes. And if there's anything the MCU needs to improve on, it's raising the stakes. That's why I'm particularly annoyed by all of this.

Obviously the biggest takeaway will be that the man ultimately makes the suit but it was still such an unnecessary arc for their whole coming-of-age thing.

 

[JOE]

There's a good chance Peter tells Stark to keep his suit at the end of the movie and create his own classic Spidey suit without all the Stark tech. I can't see him keeping Stark's toys without making his own serious adjustments.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Anybody else hate how the suit glows? That's so dumb.

Admittedly reminded me of that.

 

[SpideyJJ]

Admittedly reminded me of that.

At least Peter made that on his own (despite turning into Stark)

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

What got me annoyed was the countless Avengers talk in both trailers. I think anyone that sees Iron Man on a poster would know this is a MCU film. I think anyone that watches one trailer would know that this is a MCU film. You can calm down now, Sony.

They obviously want to drive that point home to audiences, which I'm okay with. It's different and there is still some fatigue IMO. It helps to set this as firmly in the MCU as possible. I just hope it's not as over-the-top in the actual film.

I find it pretty insane how people on social media are defending the vlogging (in spite of the numerous stupid issues it needlessly brings)

Hopefully this is just him documenting his first foray into international, big-time superheroing. That's what it seemed like to me and that makes way more sense and is way more acceptable/relatable. It's like making a home-video of your vacation. Many people do it. It's relatable and not beyond the realm of believability.

Of course casual fans are going to praise it. Most of them don't give a hoot about changes, some of them didn't care until he got in the MCU (MCU fanatics) & some hardcore fans are just greatful he's in the MCU at all. Not saying everybody fits Into that box (everybody certainly doesn't) but that's what I've seen on Social Media.

Really good point. Same reason I can not be turned off by many of the MCU changes, I'm a casual Marvel fan and a hardcore Spider-fan.

Spoiler

I'm still so salty that line was used so heavily in the marketing and then NEVER EVEN SHOWED UP IN THE FINISHED FILM

 

[davetbeau]

I don't know how I feel about everything yet. My initial reaction to the talking AI tech suit was "cool", but I feel like Stark could make anyone this suit and they too can be Spider-Man with all of those gadgets. I get he has super strength and agility, but who's to say Stark could'nt assist there too. I just hope we see more with Peter Parker's characterization. I want to feel like he's Spider-Man without Stark's help. I hope we get to see this during the Vulture/homemade suit fight.

 

[metaphysician]

While you can argue about the details of the changes, Marvel didn't "force" a reboot. That is entirely on Sony: Sony were the ones who screwed up the TASM movies, and Sony were the ones who basically begged Marvel to fix things. Once the decision was made to cooperate and put Spider-man into the MCU, a reboot was unavoidable. They weren't going to ever stick the TASM Spidey in the MCU, when he wasn't designed to be a part of such *and* his failure was the reason for this whole thing in the first place.

 

[Poppy]

Hopefully this is just him documenting his first foray into international, big-time superheroing. That's what it seemed like to me and that makes way more sense and is way more acceptable/relatable. It's like making a home-video of your vacation. Many people do it. It's relatable and not beyond the realm of believability.

That's a great idea! I would be okay with that, so hopefully you're right t:.

 

[harryoscop]

Stark better not come to Peter's rescue in the climax.

 

[AlluAllu]

Shared universes are double edged swords.

A) You decide to work with real life logic. Of course these nice superheroes would help each other whenever they can. This is Homecoming's approach. But this leads to a problem, where you need to come up with bigger issues for heroes to deal with to have any sense of struggle. Skilled storytellers can pull this of, but in this case Spider-Man loses some of his relatability.

B) You decide to operate on comic book logic. Now sometimes heroes don't co-operate when they should. Think of Cap not calling for help when dealing with Helicarriers or Ancient One apparentally not giving a damn about alien invasion or Ultron. This is stupid, but makes it easier to have struggling heroes. Writers can either ignore it or come up with excuses.

Now that Homecoming has chosen the option A, moving on to B would seem stupid, unless it's justified really well. But I can't think of a good reason why Spidey wouldn't want high tech gadgets in his suit, if those save lives.

 

[harryoscop]

Does it really need to be explained why other heroes are not constantly showing up in each other's films to help one another? I don't want to see Spider-Man showing up in Iron Man's movie to help him defeat the Manderin & vice-versa. So many great self-contained MCU films. Homecoming is the way it is because they WANT it to be. There is no necessity for other heroes like Iron Man to show up & deal with Peter's problems. (That's why Sony is jamming RDJ down our throats with the marketing, because they know he sells)

For a self-contained story like Homecoming with a small-scale villain, there's less of a reason for Iron Man to be in this than for him to have been in TWS

 

[AlluAllu]

I've been reading your posts on these past two pages. I admit that you have some good points. My biggest point of criticism would have to be vlogging, if he really is posting stuff online. As a nerd, Peter should know how easily hackers could track him down. That's just stupid. But if we could assume that somehow Peter has made it secure, I'd be all for it. It could actually be really cool. Imagine an unpopular kid suddenly becoming a big internet phenomenon. I can see why that kid might want to add fuel to that and interact with his fanbase.

And what comes to Peter's skills and wisdom, I fully believe that Feigi wants Peter to evolve from a movie to movie. Should make for an interesting journey.

 

[Richard Grayson]

Well the Iron Man Jr. is really starting to bug me now. It doesn't even feel like Spider-Man at this point