The Dark Knight The story telling method of The Dark Knight

[sasquatchs]

he was Bruce Wayne in some prison work camp. he then climbed a mountain, trained, returned to Gotham, and became Batman. what was told out of order?

The start, it began in childhood, went to training, back to childhood, WE NEED A MONTAGE, MONTAGE!, young adulthood, then a straight line from training. I agree though, I wouldn't really call Begins non-linear but something like half an hour was.

Prestige was very non-linear.

Jumps forward in time is all I expect from TDK, starting from the robbery. Maybe a montage of what Batman has been up to, and some tiny flashbacks for Joker.

 

[Mysterio]

Starting at the end and going back is nonlinear.

no it isn't. starting at the end and going back is linear.

Starting at the end, then telling part of the middle, then telling the beginning, then a previous part of the middle, and then a few flashbacks before the end, as in the Prestige, is nonlinear as well.

that's not how i remember it, but it's been awhile since i've seen the movie. the movie began with an event and then told the story of everything leading up to and after that event. that's linear.

Begins is pretty linear. It just has two flashbacks.

the use of flashbacks do not automatically mean something is non linear. the opening flashback in Begins was a dream that occurred in present time. Bruce had a dream, and woke up from it in a prison cell. the story is as linear as one could hope for. guy isn't batman, guy becomes batman, batman fights crime. end of movie.

 

[Mysterio]

The start, it began in childhood, went to training, back to childhood, WE NEED A MONTAGE, MONTAGE!, young adulthood, then a straight line from training. I agree though, I wouldn't really call Begins non-linear but something like half an hour was.

that was a dream used to fill in some background. the use of the dreams does not make the story non-linear.

 

[sasquatchs]

the use of flashbacks do not automatically mean something is non linear. the opening flashback in Begins was a dream that occurred in present time. Bruce had a dream, and woke up from it in a prison cell. the story is as linear as one could hope for. guy isn't batman, guy becomes batman, batman fights crime. end of movie.

Aren't you confusing things a bit? If you think of it that way then only stories with time machines would be non-linear. Even though it's Bruce remembering the past, the story still goes there. If it was Bruce narrating the visuals we see then I'd agree with you.

 

[scifiwolf]

I think you guys are confusing chronological order with linear. I'd say going backwards is linear, but not chronological. Having flashbakcs as a chracter's dream or retalling of events is linear, but not chronological. Having a flashback as a element of the movie, that is, when it's not being told or dreamed, is neither linear or chronological.

I think that's some of the lamest nitpicking I've done on these boards, but I think it should help the discussion.

 

[itsthebatman]

no it isn't. starting at the end and going back is linear.

that's not how i remember it, but it's been awhile since i've seen the movie. the movie began with an event and then told the story of everything leading up to and after that event. that's linear.

the use of flashbacks do not automatically mean something is non linear. the opening flashback in Begins was a dream that occurred in present time. Bruce had a dream, and woke up from it in a prison cell. the story is as linear as one could hope for. guy isn't batman, guy becomes batman, batman fights crime. end of movie.

I definitely considered The Prestige as being non-linear. It was all over the place. Out of interest, can you name some films you consider as being non-linear?

 

[sasquatchs]

I think you guys are confusing chronological order with linear. I'd say going backwards is linear, but not chronological. Having flashbakcs as a chracter's dream or retalling of events is linear, but not chronological. Having a flashback as a element of the movie, that is, when it's not being told or dreamed, is neither linear or chronological.

I think that's some of the lamest nitpicking I've done on these boards, but I think it should help the discussion.

Hey, this is all nitpicking, whether you consider it linear, non-linear, doesn't really matter, quite fun though. I just looked up the non-linear definition in an online dictionary and uses chronological as part of it. I don't think anyone really knows what it means t:

 

[BubbaGump]

I think the term here is: flashback. It's not really a unique story-telling method.

 

[Mysterio]

I think you guys are confusing chronological order with linear. I'd say going backwards is linear, but not chronological. Having flashbakcs as a chracter's dream or retalling of events is linear, but not chronological. Having a flashback as a element of the movie, that is, when it's not being told or dreamed, is neither linear or chronological.

exactly.

 

[Mysterio]

I definitely considered The Prestige as being non-linear. It was all over the place. Out of interest, can you name some films you consider as being non-linear?

none come immediately to mind. i'd have to think about it.

 

[the_monk]

he was Bruce Wayne in some prison work camp. he then climbed a mountain, trained, returned to Gotham, and became Batman. what was told out of order?

The beginning jumped around back and forth between Bruce in Asia, Bruce in Gotham before, during, and after the trial, and Bruce as a young boy. Watch it again, you'll see.

edit: i read a few posts up. linear and chronological order are pretty much the same thing. but i think this debate has turned into semantics.

 

[sasquatchs]

The beginning jumped around back and forth between Bruce in Asia, Bruce in Gotham before, during, and after the trial, and Bruce as a young boy. Watch it again, you'll see.

He knows that. I think the argument comes down to whether there's much of a storytelling distinction between a dream and flashback.

 

[Mysterio]

The beginning jumped around back and forth between Bruce in Asia, Bruce in Gotham before, during, and after the trial, and Bruce as a young boy. Watch it again, you'll see.

yes, i realize that. that doesn't make the film non linear.

again, the story is Bruce Wayne is not Batman, seeks out training, returns to Gotham, becomes Batman, fights crime and foils a couple of supervillians, end of movie. now tell me how that's not a linear story. there is a definite beginning and end and a clearly defined path of action from one to the other.

 

[itsthebatman]

Amores Perros and 21 Grams. They surely qualify as non-linear.

 

[Mysterio]

He knows that. I think the argument comes down to whether there's much of a storytelling distinction between a dream and flashback.

a flashback is a flashback, even if a dream is used as the flashback device.

 

[Mysterio]

Amores Perros and 21 Grams. They surely qualify as non-linear.

i haven't seen either one, and the director rented a bunch of art supplies from my friend for Naomi Watts' character. she even bought a couple of his pieces for herself.

 

[itsthebatman]

i haven't seen either one, and the director rented a bunch of art supplies from my friend for Naomi Watts' character. she even bought a couple of his pieces for herself.

Sweet.
I love Naomi Watts.

 

[Mysterio]

oh yeah? then i'm sure you'd love a very naked watts in mulholland drive

 

[sasquatchs]

a flashback is a flashback, even if a dream is used as the flashback device.

If you agree with scifiwolf and think a dream is a flashback, you agree with me t:

Anyway, I think I've derailed the thread in my pedantry

 

[Mysterio]

If you agree with scifiwolf and think a dream is a flashback, you agree with me t:

Anyway, I think I've derailed the thread in my pedantry

not all dreams are flashbacks. some are, but others aren't. it's not an all or none situation.

 

[the_monk]

As I said before, we seem to be debating semantics. I know Batman Begins is a linear story, but the beginning jumps around so much that it's unclear whether they are flashbacks or dreams. I seem to recall points where we seem to have a flashback within a flashback. It uses a pretty roundabout method of telling a linear story.

The question is, how will this method be worked into The Dark Knight?