Comics The Styleshift review of OMD/BND.

[Styleshift]

I feel concerned that ALOT of my fellow posters are a bit confused on my views of BND. So I will take this brief moment to explain in detail what I think of the new status quo. These are MY opinions so I will NOT speak for anyone else. but feel free to agree or disagree as long as you don't tell me my opinion is wrong. lol.

When One more day hit the stands I picked it up, I wasn't as active as I am now on the internet and boards. (ironically ) But I did know a bit about Joe Queseda's hatred of the marriage.....I just didn't actually think he was going to destory it in such a horrible storyline ESPECIALLY after arcs like sins past. (again...you might love these, but IMO. )

The reasons for my negative feelings towards this event are.

all of the issues were overpriced, with factoids that no longer mean anything to current continuity since Pete and Mj are no longer married and he no longer has his "Other" Spider-powers.

Peter wasn't a hero at the end, and it was pretty stupid of him to make a deal with mephisto when he's had many encounters with ghost rider.

I am actually a fan of the marriage. I didn't mind them putting it to rest....but after 20 years, I feel that they should have respected the fans that DID like it instead of just saying it never happened. a better cop out would have been nothing changed that day....but no one remembers things the same. which is only the excuse for the unmasking.

My problems with BND.
This is the interesting part....I barely have any MAJOR problems with BND.
The story telling IMO is mediocre so far....I know we can't be given all the answers at once, but it feels like we've been given 8 months of filler.

I feel as if the little seeds that were planted during the paper doll arc that referred to OMD was more of a way to give the readers that dropped the book this sense of hope, because other than the whole jackpot thing...bringing Mj back into the foray was pretty useless. That story could have easily involved another girl with Carr. again...IMO. I initially felt it ito be insulting to fans that DID like Mj's past characterization. but now that I've calmed down and thought it through it feels more like they are trying to ground BND into history than dwelve into the past.

I hate how most of the character's characterization's were set back too much particularly with aunt may and certain heroes like DD (his relationship with Spidey). all though some good things have come about from this reboot, such as the return of the original powers and characters like Venom and Norman osborn not remembering. Yeah I know....I know the continuity problems with this but at least IMO it's interesting something we haven't seen before. although Mackie wrote a venom that didn't remember....and he dropped the ball with that. but with slott on board I'm not worried.

Now here's the bottom line of why I felt mocked.

In asm 564 on the last page there was a spot in the newspaper that says "INTERNET ANGRY ABOUT COMIC BOOK".

obviously thats poking at OMD.
personally I felt insulted because

1 I actually bought that overpriced book.
2 Instead of FORCING things, marvel should try to cater to all fans...even if some what impossible.

They didn't necessarily point a stick at me. (I personally loved the clone saga) but they've finally topped it in terms of fan dissaproval and now they are proudly pouring salt into the wound.

I mean its not even like anyone is going down to marvel with torches, and for the fans that ARE still looking into this and giving it a shot...yeah that really sucks, because even after that crap fest I'm still giving marvel a benefit of a doubt and they are making light of the situation like the fans are the ones that asked for that story.

To me that what they did on that page of asm says I don't care what you fans think. It wasn't necessary...it didn't even add to the story, but again thats just IMO.

I just want to be able to enjoy spidey comics. If I have to go forward without thinking about pre OMD I will, but don't keep reminding me of what was....

 

[ragingdemon155]

It's easy for me to sit and say it was the marriage ending that caused me to leave. There's no question that it was one of the main factors. Peter and MJ are my favorite couple in any media form so obviously I loved reading about them. However, I've enjoyed a ton of Spider-man stories where he wasn't married. So a "single" Spider-man would have still kept me entertained. Would I have enjoyed him as much as the married version? Probably not...Marvel went on about all the stories that couldn't be told with a married Spider-man. Now I've tried to read up on BND in the comic shops as much as possible to keep up with what's happening to Spider-man, now that I'm not collecting. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong...but has there really been one interesting aspect to the story that's happened because Peter wasn't married?

Losing the marriage sucks....Yet my main problem with what's happened is the regression of Peter Parker/Spider-man himself. Was it really necessary to revert him so far back to being so inexperienced? You already stripped him of that "dreaded" marriage. Why strip him of all the character development he went through as well? When I'm reading ASM now, it doesn't feel like Spider-man at all. He just seems so damn clueless half the time.

All this talk about the marriage being the problem. Bad writing was the problem with Spider-man. Bad writing is what gave us "Sins Past", "The Other", "The Unmasking", "OMD" and "BND"...Bad writing was and still is the problem.

 

[kguillou]

Here's the bottom line with BND (in my opinion). BND isn't bad at all, the problem is...it isnt great either. Its just plain average spider-man stories. If this was 1975, this would be excellent, but we're in 2008, and comics have changed drastically since then. Comic stories these days are way more complex and mature then they've ever been. When Stracynski was on the book, he gave us 6 years of beautiful character development, mature storylines, and overall made Peter Parker more down to earth, mature, and relatable than he's ever been. JMS raised the bar of what Spider-man/Peter Parker should be, and now the bar's been lowered...a lot. We're not used to seeing the goofy, "uh oh i'm out of web fluid for the millionth time" Spiderman. For the past 6-7 years we've been given a mature, witty, self-conflicted Peter Parker, and the fans loved it, the sales from his run prove that. Now we've got a care-free, happy-go lucky spiderman and all JMS' progression was thrown out the window, because marvel thinks this is what we really want. Heck, even the movie version of Spider-man was closer to JMS' version than... oh say Guggenheim's version.

I will say Dan Slott's doing a good job, he's got a great handle on the character, his version reminds me of the TAS spider-man. But overall BND is very subpar and it doesnt help that 1) Spideman's closest allies dont even remember who he is anymore 2) Harry Osborn is alive which creates all sorts of continuity messes and 3) Aunt may is back to being a frail old woman and Peter Parker is a complete loser, because you know...we can all relate to being a 25 year old manchild.

But, hey let's see where this takes us. What's done is done, i think re-retconning this whole thing would be even more of a mess, so let's just hope marvel gets itself together with Spiderman.

Originally posted by: ragingdemon155

All this talk about the marriage being the problem. Bad writing was the problem with Spider-man. Bad writing is what gave us "Sins Past", "The Other", "The Unmasking", "OMD" and "BND"...Bad writing was and still is the problem.

Amen, that pretty much sums it up. t:

 

[USMC]

Peter wasn't a hero at the end

This is pretty much why, after 20 years of collecting nearly every issue, I won't buy Spider-Man anymore, and why I think they went in the complete wrong direction with this "reboot".

With this very thing, Marvel, Quesada, JMS, whoever the hell you want to point the finger at... this proved that none of them had (or still have) a clue as to what Spider-Man is all about.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

IMO, BND was a great restart of the Spidey comics, but the way they did it was bad, which was ending the marriage. Ending the marriage was a huge mistake, but overall, BND was a great and enjoyable story.

 

[ScottishFogg]

It seems like comics are growing up, but Marvel's acting like the over-protective mother that never wants their baby to grow up and leave the house.

Personally, I absolutely adore the idea of Peter finally being able to honor his uncle Ben by raising a child, passing on everything that Ben passed on to him. But I guess we'll only see that in a "what if" if at all.

There's times when I really like the scope of the DC universe.

 

[farmernudie]

Good review Styleshift.

I agree a lot.

When the foundation of your house is so poor (OMD) everything you keep piling up on top of it will not stand. (BND)

Plus, the device of dealing with the devil is one where things turn back quickly. This is meant to start a whole new world for spdiey, without consequence. Some people say bringing Harry back fromt he dead is a consequence...but that misses the point, and is just the only convenient angle they can think of.

Point is, Pete and MJ were totally out of character and the whole thing doesn't make sense because it was just an agenda and a quick way to dump white-out on whatever they wanted and start over after hittig the panic button because Joe didn't like marriage and he is worried about people collecting spidey comics 20 years from now.

 

[Miken Ayers]

It seems like comics are growing up, but Marvel's acting like the over-protective mother that never wants their baby to grow up and leave the house.

Personally, I absolutely adore the idea of Peter finally being able to honor his uncle Ben by raising a child, passing on everything that Ben passed on to him. But I guess we'll only see that in a "what if" if at all.

There's times when I really like the scope of the DC universe.

Spider-Man having a kid would complicate things too much storywise. Not to mention a superhero having offspring is just painting a target on them for all their enemies. Also I'd think Peter being a scientist with an altered and unnatural body chemistry wouldn't dare reproduce since the biological variables would be astronomical.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Good review Styleshift.

I agree a lot.

When the foundation of your house is so poor (OMD) everything you keep piling up on top of it will not stand. (BND)

Plus, the device of dealing with the devil is one where things turn back quickly. This is meant to start a whole new world for spdiey, without consequence. Some people say bringing Harry back fromt he dead is a consequence...but that misses the point, and is just the only convenient angle they can think of.

Point is, Pete and MJ were totally out of character and the whole thing doesn't make sense because it was just an agenda and a quick way to dump white-out on whatever they wanted and start over after hittig the panic button because Joe didn't like marriage and he is worried about people collecting spidey comics 20 years from now.

You see a year before OMD I was dreading what Spider-Man would be after JMS left. Joe said his aim would be to bring him to what Stan Lee introduced. I was afraid to get that cat back in the bag and in such a short period of time would be a mess. And the second Peter woke up after his deal with Mephisto it was apparent my fears were justified.

 

[kguillou]

It's funny how right now Marvel is all " "Embrace Change!", "Change is Coming!", yet "change" is the one thing they fear the most. I wonder how long Tony Stark is gonna be Director of Shield? I wonder how long Bucky is gona be Captain America? I wonder how long the mutants will be endangered species? These changes are bound to come full circle and restore the "normal" status quo. Spidey isn't the only example, look at what they did with Hulk recently. Years of character progression thrown away in favor for "hulk smash!".

 

[UK_Stu]

I feel concerned that ALOT of my fellow posters are a bit confused on my views of BND. So I will take this brief moment to explain in detail what I think of the new status quo. These are MY opinions so I will NOT speak for anyone else. but feel free to agree or disagree as long as you don't tell me my opinion is wrong. lol.

When One more day hit the stands I picked it up, I wasn't as active as I am now on the internet and boards. (ironically ) But I did know a bit about Joe Queseda's hatred of the marriage.....I just didn't actually think he was going to destory it in such a horrible storyline ESPECIALLY after arcs like sins past. (again...you might love these, but IMO. )

The reasons for my negative feelings towards this event are.

all of the issues were overpriced, with factoids that no longer mean anything to current continuity since Pete and Mj are no longer married and he no longer has his "Other" Spider-powers.

Peter wasn't a hero at the end, and it was pretty stupid of him to make a deal with mephisto when he's had many encounters with ghost rider.

I am actually a fan of the marriage. I didn't mind them putting it to rest....but after 20 years, I feel that they should have respected the fans that DID like it instead of just saying it never happened. a better cop out would have been nothing changed that day....but no one remembers things the same. which is only the excuse for the unmasking.

My problems with BND.
This is the interesting part....I barely have any MAJOR problems with BND.
The story telling IMO is mediocre so far....I know we can't be given all the answers at once, but it feels like we've been given 8 months of filler.

I feel as if the little seeds that were planted during the paper doll arc that referred to OMD was more of a way to give the readers that dropped the book this sense of hope, because other than the whole jackpot thing...bringing Mj back into the foray was pretty useless. That story could have easily involved another girl with Carr. again...IMO. I initially felt it ito be insulting to fans that DID like Mj's past characterization. but now that I've calmed down and thought it through it feels more like they are trying to ground BND into history than dwelve into the past.

I hate how most of the character's characterization's were set back too much particularly with aunt may and certain heroes like DD (his relationship with Spidey). all though some good things have come about from this reboot, such as the return of the original powers and characters like Venom and Norman osborn not remembering. Yeah I know....I know the continuity problems with this but at least IMO it's interesting something we haven't seen before. although Mackie wrote a venom that didn't remember....and he dropped the ball with that. but with slott on board I'm not worried.

Now here's the bottom line of why I felt mocked.

In asm 564 on the last page there was a spot in the newspaper that says "INTERNET ANGRY ABOUT COMIC BOOK".

obviously thats poking at OMD.
personally I felt insulted because

1 I actually bought that overpriced book.
2 Instead of FORCING things, marvel should try to cater to all fans...even if some what impossible.

They didn't necessarily point a stick at me. (I personally loved the clone saga) but they've finally topped it in terms of fan dissaproval and now they are proudly pouring salt into the wound.

I mean its not even like anyone is going down to marvel with torches, and for the fans that ARE still looking into this and giving it a shot...yeah that really sucks, because even after that crap fest I'm still giving marvel a benefit of a doubt and they are making light of the situation like the fans are the ones that asked for that story.

To me that what they did on that page of asm says I don't care what you fans think. It wasn't necessary...it didn't even add to the story, but again thats just IMO.

I just want to be able to enjoy spidey comics. If I have to go forward without thinking about pre OMD I will, but don't keep reminding me of what was....

When I read the title of this thread, I clenched my teeth and opened it expecting to be enraged by what I read and writing a scathing arguement in reponse. In fact after reading your post, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say.

But I think you're being a little over the top about the "INTERNET ANGRY ABOUT COMIC BOOK" headline in 564. Yes It was a pop at us posters on comic boards all over the internet - but did you really feel mocked?? I mean yes it was aimed at the stereotypical Internet fanboy, but rather than just ignoring it or being the bigger man and laughing it you've comments just simply reinforce the stereotype.

 

[Styleshift]

Good review Styleshift.

I agree a lot.

When the foundation of your house is so poor (OMD) everything you keep piling up on top of it will not stand. (BND)

Plus, the device of dealing with the devil is one where things turn back quickly. This is meant to start a whole new world for spdiey, without consequence. Some people say bringing Harry back fromt he dead is a consequence...but that misses the point, and is just the only convenient angle they can think of.

Point is, Pete and MJ were totally out of character and the whole thing doesn't make sense because it was just an agenda and a quick way to dump white-out on whatever they wanted and start over after hittig the panic button because Joe didn't like marriage and he is worried about people collecting spidey comics 20 years from now.

I agree with what you said.
So far Harry has helped out Pete, (He even helped pete realize he was being stupid during the whole paparazzi arc.)

If they didn't reveal anything OMD, I wish they would shed more light on Harry...give readers reason not to trust him.

See the funny thing about BND is that there are ALOT of confusing plots. it's a reboot....but if I was a casual reader...I'd read back issues just because it's well known that Harry was dead. this would lead me to being pissed off like everyone else about OMD.

 

[Styleshift]

When I read the title of this thread, I clenched my teeth and opened it expecting to be enraged by what I read and writing a scathing arguement in reponse. In fact after reading your post, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say.

But I think you're being a little over the top about the "INTERNET ANGRY ABOUT COMIC BOOK" headline in 564. Yes It was a pop at us posters on comic boards all over the internet - but did you really feel mocked?? I mean yes it was aimed at the stereotypical Internet fanboy, but rather than just ignoring it or being the bigger man and laughing it you've comments just simply reinforce the stereotype.

(awww see I'm not just your average fanboy. )


Sure...I felt mocked. Not outraged, I brushed it off...
but yeah it's not like it didn't phase me. I know everyone may have taken it differently, but I was posting what I felt.

I mean I bought OMD, and I bought that same issue of 564 and now there taking a jab at me and fellow fans that are still giving them a chance even after buying that stupid comic. Sure this post may add to their belief that i'm just some rabid fanboy....

but its not like i'm saying I HATE BND WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING!!!
I just said what i like about bnd and what i don't like....if they think I'm some idiot fanboy screw them. I'll just keep my money.

 

[ragingdemon155]

I wish that Dan Slott would have been able to write "regular" continuity Spider-man stuff. I think it's unfair that he got assigned to the "clean up"
crew for what happened in OMD. Maybe that's where all of my hatred stems from lol. I'd been waiting for Slott on a Spider-title for years and than I finally get it....and look what happens. I end up dropping the book cause the writing is so damn average.

The stories for BND don't bother me that much. My problem is more so with the characterizations. They just don't seem right to me. I know JMS got heavy criticism for some of his "Questionable" stories. However, he wrote one of the best versions of Peter Parker, probably the best version of MJ and EASILY the best version of Aunt May I'd ever read.

 

[UK_Stu]

(awww see I'm not just your average fanboy. )


Sure...I felt mocked. Not outraged, I brushed it off...
but yeah it's not like it didn't phase me. I know everyone may have taken it differently, but I was posting what I felt.

I mean I bought OMD, and I bought that same issue of 564 and now there taking a jab at me and fellow fans that are still giving them a chance even after buying that stupid comic. Sure this post may add to their belief that i'm just some rabid fanboy....

but its not like i'm saying I HATE BND WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING!!!
I just said what i like about bnd and what i don't like....if they think I'm some idiot fanboy screw them. I'll just keep my money.

No worries - we all take these things differently I guess.

I am buying the BND issues at the moment, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm loving it. I think there are a number of issues with BND, and I think they certainly outweigh any petty joke Marvel wants to make at our expense

 

[carnageehw]

Another excellent post, I rreally dig your thoughts.

I am actually a fan of the marriage. I didn't mind them putting it to rest....but after 20 years, I feel that they should have respected the fans that DID like it instead of just saying it never happened. a better cop out would have been nothing changed that day....but no one remembers things the same. which is only the excuse for the unmasking.

Not only is this a brilliant idea, it also fits in PERFECTLY with Mephisto's "A part of your sould will alway remember" theory.
Rather than Pete and MJ's souls remebering things that "didn't happen", they would remember stuff that actually DID happen, but thew world exists as if it hadn't.

Damn, that's brilliant. You. Write Spider-man now.

Now here's the bottom line of why I felt mocked.

In asm 564 on the last page there was a spot in the newspaper that says "INTERNET ANGRY ABOUT COMIC BOOK".

Agree 100%. Marvel claims to pay no mind to disenters, and to do thier own thing (as they should, really), then throw an immature jab at the people who love the book, and the people they just said they pay no mind to? Yeah, real mature.

 

[Styleshift]

Another excellent post, I rreally dig your thoughts.
Not only is this a brilliant idea, it also fits in PERFECTLY with Mephisto's "A part of your sould will alway remember" theory.
Rather than Pete and MJ's souls remebering things that "didn't happen", they would remember stuff that actually DID happen, but thew world exists as if it hadn't.

Damn, that's brilliant. You. Write Spider-man now.



Agree 100%. Marvel claims to pay no mind to disenters, and to do thier own thing (as they should, really), then throw an immature jab at the people who love the book, and the people they just said they pay no mind to? Yeah, real mature.

Thanks t:,

I know Marvel's whole plan was to prolong spidey, but why eliminate the marriage from EVERY comic that came before? They claim nothings changed...that every issue still reads the same, but "they just weren't married." How can I possibly pick up ASM 21 and read it the same?

I don't agree with that...but I was willing to say whatever. whatever to ALOT of this crap that OMD spat out.

there would be less problems in continuity if they didn't claim the marriage never happened. because obviously things happened differently now than we read. THAT is the main reason this feels like an alternate universe and not 616 MU.

 

[carnageehw]

I know Marvel's whole plan was to prolong spidey, but why eliminate the marriage from EVERY comic that came before? They claim nothings changed...that every issue still reads the same, but "they just weren't married." How can I possibly pick up ASM 21 and read it the same?

"Everything's the same. Except these things that aren't the same. We'll explain why soon."



The only reason I figure they didn't do your idea, is because it might seem like it's all a set up to go back to the "marriage" way. But I mean, the way it's written, it seems like that anyway.

THAT is the main reason this feels like an alternate universe and not 616 MU.

It's like jumping into a show halfway through a season, only without repeats of the internet to catch you up.

 

[Styleshift]

As a heads up http://styleshift.blogspot.com/ (or The Styleshift Review) is now up and running.

I will be reviewing spidey stories as a personal hobbie.

thanks to the help of Spider-manhero I will now be reviewing

the boy that collects spider-man
the master planner
the night gwen stacy died.
the death of harry osborn.
and kraven's last hunt.



After I get done with these...I will most likely review controversial stories such as sins past and OMD.

I am also taking requests. If you just like to hear me yabber or would just like to see what I think of certain spidey stories.

sorry for misspelling...i am soooo tired.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

thanks to the help of Spider-manhero I will now be reviewing

No problem.