The Superman Look: Shaping Superman

[manofsteel4life]

Actually, let's expand on this.
We often see celebrities wearing sunglasses in the hopes of concealing their identities from the average joe they see while going about their daily activities. They'll even dress in inconspicuous clothing. Despite their efforts, they are often still stalked by the paparazzi and are also quite often recognized by the previously mentioned average joe.
The word celebrity probably doesn't come to mind when thinking about Superman, but in the context of the DC universe he's probably the only candidate for "most well known person in the world" easily. His face is probably posted everywhere. He probably appears on television at least every hour. Even in the DC universe, there are action figures made of him. He is known and loved by, literally, billions of people all over the world.
Do you actually think it's possible that in all this time not one person has looked at Clark Kent and not recognized his star status. No. Impossible. Someone would have seen through the disguise.
But this isn't reality, it's a myth, so it doesn't matter. Just like him being body builder huge doesn't matter in this sense.

In short, if you can buy him concealing his identity with a pair of glasses, change in stance, etc. there is no reason you can't buy him being bulky as well.

yea, but having him bulky is a stretch though, and remember to make films successful you have to make it a bit more believeable to the public eye

 

[sepharih]

^That's completely irrelevant.

The point is that we're talking about a guy who is literally the single most famous person on the planet. A man whose celebrity status would make any actor/musician/etc. that we have in the real world look like nothing.

It's flat out absurd to think that it's possible that in the years he's been operating no one walked past him in a diner or something and just said "hey...you look like...YOU'RE SUPERMAN!!!" How many journalists in that world would cut off their arm to find out the identity of Superman? Someone, at some point, would see through his disguise. Arguing otherwise would be absurd.

Luckily, the DC universe is an absurd world, and following the rules of the universe I can see no reason why a body builder physique is too much of a stretch.

and remember to make films successful you have to make it a bit more believeable to the public eye

They have thus far failed to make it believable why a pair of glasses can conceal someone's identity. It's completely unrealistic. No one, especially not the general public cares, as long as the movie is fun and works in the context of myth.

 

[manofsteel4life]

^That's completely irrelevant.

The point is that we're talking about a guy who is literally the single most famous person on the planet. A man whose celebrity status would make any actor/musician/etc. that we have in the real world look like nothing.

It's flat out absurd to think that it's possible that in the years he's been operating no one walked past him in a diner or something and just said "hey...you look like...YOU'RE SUPERMAN!!!" How many journalists in that world would cut off their arm to find out the identity of Superman? Someone, at some point, would see through his disguise. Arguing otherwise would be absurd.

Luckily, the DC universe is an absurd world, and following the rules of the universe I can see no reason why a body builder physique is too much of a stretch.

now body building meaning looking like Arnold in his prime, or Routh who also body builds?

 

[not_a_victim]

the original post was talking about the upcoming Action Comics run. No wanted a Micheal Clark Duncan looking Routh in the movies.

Again, wrong forum. I'm surprised the mods havent fixed it already.


One other thing, originally, Supes had the power/ability to make his image kinda fuzzy and blurry. I can't remember if he used it as Clark, or Supes, but it really doesn't matter. It was never really explained fully, it was used as a cop-out as to why folks didn't link Supes and Clark. It kinda fell by the wayside, but the tradition of having Clark just wear glasses has continued.

 

[sepharih]

^Leaning more towards Arnold...although in his absolute prime Arnold's physique was more grotesque than what I'm thinking of.

 

[manofsteel4life]

^Leaning more towards Arnold...although in his absolute prime Arnold's physique was more grotesque than what I'm thinking of.

so in other words, it would be ok, and normal if Clark was that size, cause it's just a movie?

 

[sepharih]

so in other words, it would be ok, and normal if Clark was that size, cause it's just a movie?

No, a movie told in the form of myth. Keyword. When you're doing a story presented as myth you can get a lot of leeway in things like this, because you're dealing with larger than life characters working in a universe which is not bound by the traditional logic of ours. It's ok and normal for a desert farm boy to gun down dozens of heavily armed and well trained stormtroopers because of this. It's ok for alien robots to come down from space and disguise themselves as cars because of this. It's ok for a guy to put on a pair of glasses and become unrecognizable because of this. The story says it works, so it works, whether it be movie, comic, or book.

If you were to do a story which was presented in a realistic form then no, it wouldn't work. For that matter, an alien who looks exactly like a human being who was sent to earth and then develops extraordinary abilities wouldn't work either. The issue of the body builder physique becomes the least of your worries at that point.

 

[manofsteel4life]

No, a movie told in the form of myth. Keyword. When you're doing a story presented as myth you can get a lot of leeway in things like this, because you're dealing with larger than life characters working in a universe which is not bound by the traditional logic of ours. It's ok and normal for a desert farm boy to gun down dozens of heavily armed and well trained stormtroopers because of this. It's ok for alien robots to come down from space and disguise themselves as cars because of this. It's ok for a guy to put on a pair of glasses and become unrecognizable because of this. The story says it works, so it works, whether it be movie, comic, or book.

If you were to do a story which was presented in a realistic form then no, it wouldn't work. For that matter, an alien who looks exactly like a human being who was sent to earth and then develops extraordinary abilities wouldn't work either. The issue of the body builder physique becomes the least of your worries at that point.

yea, but you are talking about an alien disgusied as a human....totally different from disguising robots as cars...just cause its a myth, doesnt mean the public can accept it...ive seen and heard many people complaining on the fact that, when even clark was not portrayed as a very muscular person....people were still trying to grip the fact that noone realizes that Clark is Supes

 

[sepharih]

yea, but you are talking about an alien disgusied as a human....totally different from disguising robots as cars...

Alien robots. And no, not really, both are equally implausible. They're supposed to be. That's the point of myth.

just cause its a myth, doesnt mean the public can accept it...

Not if the story is poorly told, no.

ive seen and heard many people complaining on the fact that, when even clark was not portrayed as a very muscular person....people were still trying to grip the fact that noone realizes that Clark is Supes

...this has to do with what exactly?

 

[manofsteel4life]

Alien robots. And no, not really, both are equally implausible. They're supposed to be. That's the point of myth.


Not if the story is poorly told, no.


...this has to do with what exactly?

i was trying to make you realize that even a normal Clark Kent, still drawed disbelief from the crowd on others in the movie not realizing that he was Superman....so just imagine an over bulky Clark kent, trying to pull that off

 

[sepharih]

i was trying to make you realize that even a normal Clark Kent, still drawed disbelief from the crowd on others in the movie not realizing that he was Superman....so just imagine an over bulky Clark kent, trying to pull that off

The idea of a flying man from Krypton still draws disbelief from certain parts of the crowd. So did the idea of giant alien robots who transform into cars. You're always going to get people who can't suspend their disbelief for whatever reason.
For people who are willing to accept that a pair of eyeglasses can conceal his identity, which in this case is the majority, I have yet to hear a valid argument for why him being bulky is going to suspend your disbelief anymore than it already is.
If you just don't like the bulky Superman look that's a valid opinion, but don't try to right it off as though people won't be able to buy it.

 

[Qwerty©]

If you are capable of suspending your disbelief to where you can accept that a pair of glasses, a change in demeanor, and (in some versions) a slight change in hair style will make you unrecognizable to everyone around you; then, and I'm asking this question sincerely, why is this too much of a stretch?

Because the imagery of Clark Kent walking around bursting out of the seams of his suit and everybody thinking he is a mild-mannered nerd with no relation to Superman, is too comical to be taken seriously.

Realism has nothing to do with it. It just looks stupid.

 

[sepharih]

Because the imagery of Clark Kent walking around bursting out of the seams of his suit and everybody thinking he is a mild-mannered nerd with no relation to Superman, is too comical to be taken seriously.

Realism has nothing to do with it. It just looks stupid.

And him just putting on a pair of glasses to conceal his identity isn't?

WHY?

Come up with a cognitive argument.

And of course realism has nothing to do with it. That's been my whole point for the past two pages.

 

[Qwerty©]

And him just putting on a pair of glasses to conceal his identity isn't?

WHY?

Because an actor can make it work. The eyes add a lot to acting, and nerdy glasses can significantly alter people's impression of a character.

A muscular guy can easily alter his appearance with glasses, posture and hair style, but a really big bodybuilder will just look like he is trying to be nerdy as possible. It just makes him look ridiculous, and there is absolutely no way he will be taken seriously and the film will suffer for it.

Come up with a cognitive argument.

I don't really need to. Just watch the Worlds Finest trailer by Sandy Collora to see why a bodybuilder Clark can't work.

And of course realism has nothing to do with it. That's been my whole point for the past two pages.

I'm saying realism has nothing to do with why I think a bodybuilder Clark wouldn't work. It's more about suspension of belief. A Clark Kent that is clearly as big as Superman is just going too far.

 

[sepharih]

Because an actor can make it work. The eyes add a lot to acting, and nerdy glasses can significantly alter people's impression of a character.

A muscular guy can easily alter his appearance with glasses, posture and hair style, but a really big bodybuilder will just look like he is trying to be nerdy as possible. It just makes him look ridiculous, and there is absolutely no way he will be taken seriously and the film will suffer for it.

Bull. Now you’re just reaching. I don’t care how good an actor you are. You don’t see chins like that every day.

I don't really need to. Just watch the Worlds Finest trailer by Sandy Collora to see why a bodybuilder Clark can't work.

I did a search and didn’t bother watching. You’re pointing me to a fanfilm to tell me why it can’t be taken seriously? Please. That’s like pointing me to a fanfilm to show me why Superman’s costume can’t be taken seriously. Give it a rest.

If you reply I'll catch you in a few hours. Got to head off to work.

 

[Qwerty©]

Bull. Now you’re just reaching. I don’t care how good an actor you are. You don’t see chins like that every day.

People with strong chins can still look nerdy.

I did a search and didn’t bother watching. You’re pointing me to a fanfilm to tell me why it can’t be taken seriously? Please. That’s like pointing me to a fanfilm to show me why Superman’s costume can’t be taken seriously. Give it a rest.

It was a fairly high profile fanfilm. The point is a bodybuilder was cast and he looked ridiculous as Clark Kent.

If you reply I'll catch you in a few hours. Got to head off to work.

Just try and imagine bodybuilder Clark walking around in your office, if you work in one.

 

[newmexneon]

See, I really love artists like this because they actually understand that Superman doesn't have to look like he's been conjoined to a canister of nandrolone and a weight bench for his entire life. That is why I think Routh's physique was perfect for SR. Solidly built, but not looking like he could compete in the Mr. Olympia contest. It also makes it more plausible when he's dressed as Clark. Clark isn't supposed to look stout...but rather inconspicuous and dorky.

Perfect post about how Superman should look. Routh has the perfect look for Superman.

 

[sepharih]

People with strong chins can still look nerdy.

That’s not the issue. The point is that Supes has an incredibly distinctive look. No matter how thick his glasses are, Clark Kent is still a dark haired, blue eyed, Adonis of a man with a chin that would give Bruce Campbell’s a run for its money. I don’t give a crap how good his acting is. He’s not fooling anybody. He’s about as convincing as Rachel Leigh Cook was in “She’s All That”.
I propose that, by your logic, it’s too much to have an obviously good looking guy in the role. We should have Supes look more average and ordinary so that we can actually believe that he could blend in.

It was a fairly high profile fanfilm. The point is a bodybuilder was cast and he looked ridiculous as Clark Kent.

High profile fanfilm is an oxymoron. I respect fanfilms and am glad that people do them, but to act like you can take anything that was shot there, with a shoestring budget and limited creative input, and try to say that it’s somehow relevant to what you can't do in a Hollywood film is ludicrous.

Just try and imagine bodybuilder Clark walking around in your office, if you work in one.

Let’s turn this on its head. Just try and imagine your favorite celebrity walking around your office, with nothing but a pair of glasses to conceal his identity. The very idea that you won’t recognize him is completely absurd already, and whether or not he’s muscle bound is hardly an issue. The logic of the real world does not apply here.

Ultimately, all this boils down to is whether or not you like the look of a bulky Superman. If you don’t, that’s fine, since we all have our own personal preference for how these characters should look. Don’t try to tell me my bulky Supes is any more ridiculous than yours though.

 

[manofsteel4life]

That’s not the issue. The point is that Supes has an incredibly distinctive look. No matter how thick his glasses are, Clark Kent is still a dark haired, blue eyed, Adonis of a man with a chin that would give Bruce Campbell’s a run for its money. I don’t give a crap how good his acting is. He’s not fooling anybody. He’s about as convincing as Rachel Leigh Cook was in “She’s All That”.
I propose that, by your logic, it’s too much to have an obviously good looking guy in the role. We should have Supes look more average and ordinary so that we can actually believe that he could blend in.


High profile fanfilm is an oxymoron. I respect fanfilms and am glad that people do them, but to act like you can take anything that was shot there, with a shoestring budget and limited creative input, and try to say that it’s somehow relevant to what you can't do in a Hollywood film is ludicrous.


Let’s turn this on its head. Just try and imagine your favorite celebrity walking around your office, with nothing but a pair of glasses to conceal his identity. The very idea that you won’t recognize him is completely absurd already, and whether or not he’s muscle bound is hardly an issue. The logic of the real world does not apply here.

Ultimately, all this boils down to is whether or not you like the look of a bulky Superman. If you don’t, that’s fine, since we all have our own personal preference for how these characters should look. Don’t try to tell me my bulky Supes is any more ridiculous than yours though.

forget the whole problem of what can be considered suitable for Clarks size....i guess it all balls down to whether once perception of Clark's size can translate to his disguise....all im saying is that i understand this is not real life and it shouldnt matter, what size he is. But this is not a cartoon, and i think you have a better chance of pulling it off in a cartoon rather than, having a real life film. But everyone has their own preference i guess

 

[Mr. Socko]

It was a fairly high profile fanfilm. The point is a bodybuilder was cast and he looked ridiculous as Clark Kent.

Agree. Superman looked terrible in that film and even worse in a suit as Kent. But I gotta admit, I really liked Batman in those fanfilms! I thought he had a perfect build and he looked good in the spandex unlike Supes.

 

[superbaby]

superman should be well built. i just think routh is in his normal size in SR.

 

[Optimus Prime.]

I like Bizarro's look

same he looks wicked

 

[Mr. Socko]

superman should be well built. i just think routh is in his normal size in SR.

What are you saying? You like his normal size or should he get bigger?

 

[superbaby]

What are you saying? You like his normal size or should he get bigger?

oops. refer to my 2 posts before pls. he should get bigger i mean.
i just don't believe he was 220 pounds in SR. though that was what been reported. i think he was just 200 pounds or slightly below.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I explain it away with a book I once read on spys during the cold war. They always maintained that an elaborate disguise drew attention to the disguise. A good cover usually entailed little things like changing the way you walk, how you hold your body up (posture), how you gesture, how you comb your hair and one or two things that draw attention such as a pair of glasses or an ever present outlandishly colored bit of clothing. Also keep in mind that Clark's had a whole lifetime of practice at this. Superman speaks, carries himself, and generally gives off an aura not unlike that of a god or royalty at least. Clark's the slighty odd, clutz from the country, humans are very superficial, it's not hard to think in many cases that people would not connect the two.

Hell, I remember reading whole section on wearing what everyone else wears to avoid detection. Spies often dressed from head to toe in shades of blues and grays to seamlessly blend into the general populous even after being spotted.