The Tennis Thread - Part 3

[Sakuraba]

Brown's comment about his serve and volley being naturally effective against Nadal because it doesn't allow him to see a lot of balls so he can't get in a rhythm or hit his way into a match... I thought that was a dramatic oversimplification of things. Brown served well, but but it wasn't long ago that Nadal would have sent balls past him. Nadal doesn't have the mental makeup right now to hit consistent passing shots off either wing. And the fact that grass takes time away doesn't help his cause.

So brown was onto something today. His game was perfect for today and today's opponent, but some people elsewhere are acting like this was a revelation or something.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nadal built his career on being a physical freak. How he got there is up for debate, but doesn't change that he has lost a step and thus lost most, if not all his advantage. I have seen hundreds of times in different sports.

One thing that I hate about this whole situation is people will use the head to head with Fed to claim his superiority. No matter what Fed was doing, he make the later rounds and play Nadal, no matter the surface, no matter his physical state. When Nadal falls off, he is nowhere to be seen.

 

[regwec]

I do remember Nadal being the roided up caveman of the sport, always in that vest. It seems a long time ago now.

Edit: Rafa-Tarzan, circa 2007.

 

[Iceman]

Federer is easily the best of the recent champions and many of the match ups are when Federer was past his peak. Nadal was awesome on clay but noone's been as consistent on all surfaces year after year as Federer (that I've seen).

 

[Sakuraba]

Nadal built his career on being a physical freak. How he got there is up for debate, but doesn't change that he has lost a step and thus lost most, if not all his advantage. I have seen hundreds of times in different sports.

One thing that I hate about this whole situation is people will use the head to head with Fed to claim his superiority. No matter what Fed was doing, he make the later rounds and play Nadal, no matter the surface, no matter his physical state. When Nadal falls off, he is nowhere to be seen.

Nadal's magnificent foot speed and movement is an advantage, but he didn't win 14 Slams solely because he can chase balls down. I don't see Gael Monfils lifting any cups. The guy has one of the best forehands in history, his on-court intelligence is practically unmatched, he's got a soft touch at net, a crafty server, a backhand with real variety, and he has fortitude. There for sure are unsavory parts to Nadal: he whines, his frequent gamesmanship, the stalling, sometimes his style can be boring, but sometimes scintillating. I've jumped him numerous times in this thread for that stuff.

I'm sympathetic to Federer apologists' attempts to balance the scales in terms of head to head. Yes, he and Nadal have played a lopsided number of matches on clay because Federer was ultimately better on clay than Nadal was on hardcourts. Federer is older than Nadal, so Nadal has got to play a declining Federer in recent years, but Federer also got to play a teenage Nadal while he was in his true prime.

At the end of the day, the real reasons for Federer having lost so many to Nadal boils down to courts being slow across the board, and the simple math of Nadal having the all time greatest kicker forehand going cross court into Federer's one-handed backhand.

 

[Sakuraba]

Federer is easily the best of the recent champions and many of the match ups are when Federer was past his peak. Nadal was awesome on clay but noone's been as consistent on all surfaces year after year as Federer (that I've seen).

The funny thing about Federer is that he truly did benefit from the courts getting slower. Courts not changing dramatically from week to week makes dominance easier. He's more of a natural baseliner than someone that camps out at net. He's actually much better around the net since Annacone and now Edberg have helped him develop that part of his game to extend his career. Slower courts helped him then when he had a ridiculous and unmatched streak of dominance from 2004-2006, but started hurting him when the next gen baseliner came of age with Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. And now he truly is an all court player and a throwback.

 

[regwec]

Wanted to give Heather Watson a hug. Painful to so nearly stop the Serena juggernaut yet narrowly fall.

 

[kit1982]

There was a bit of vintage Murray possum play today! In terms of the mens Im not sure what to make of this first week, everyones had their moments of vulnerability. Muzza's concentration has been suspect in the past 2 matches, Federer really struggled in the longer rallies against Groth today and Novaks had some moments..... Stan seems to be the only one who has had no dramas.

 

[regwec]

I still think Djokovic is the least vulnerable of the three. I'd love Murray to win another, but he fights himself far too much.

 

[Dark Raven]

I wish Watson did manage to defeat Serena Williams. It would've been a great upset. But Serena always claws her way back even when she's on the brink of defeat.

That Murray match today was weird with the trainer. It's like Murray did the same thing back to Seppi with the injury time and reversed the momentum again after it was done to him. Seppi never won another game after that, whereas before, Murray lost 6 games in a row when Seppi took the injury break.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah was so strange with the Murray match. Seppi should have called the trainer back again after losing the first point after the restart!

Shame for Watson, can't believe she came so close against Serena.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm glad Maria Sharapova got through today, but I think this is as far as she'll go unfortunately. She's either facing Serena Williams or Victoria Azarenka, and Williams is likely to give it her all to get to the semis, and then it will become personal and she'll become unplayable against Maria, and Maria will win maybe a couple of games at most.

Even when Sharapova had match point against Williams in the Australia Open semis in 2005, Williams still clawed her way back and won in 3 sets. Then Sharapova never won a single match against her ever again.

 

[regwec]

Serena is probably unstoppable, unless she defeats herself.

 

[Dark Raven]

Once Serena had leg cramp and was hobbling in pain. Guess who still won the match?

I wonder how any of the men would fare against her, or would it be evenly matched?

 

[Iceman]

Serena down 4-2 in the first set against Azarenka.

 

[Dark Raven]

Serena down 4-2 in the first set against Azarenka.

That means nothing.

Only start getting hopeful when Azarenka has actually won a set and at least 4 games to love, and even then it's not over.

 

[Iceman]

That means nothing.

Women's tennis is only 5 minutes long so you never know.

 

[regwec]

Well, she's a set down. I predict a comeback, however.

 

[Iceman]

The champs always seem to be able to pull it back somehow. If I was 2 sets down like Djok yesterday I'd pretty much give up. t:

 

[regwec]

I think it's partly that the underdog begins to feel overwhelming pressure when the finishing line is in site. Kevin Anderson completely lost it in the third set, and couldn't take his chances afterwards.

 

[Dark Raven]

Bjorn Borg only used to be finally warmed up after 2 sets and match point down. Then he began his match campaign.

Didn't quite work for the US open though, which used to be only best of 3 sets.

 

[regwec]

And sure enough, Serena is a break up.

I feel I have to say this: her bottom is huge.

 

[regwec]

All square. Serena in steamroller mode now.

 

[Iceman]

Business as usual now.

 

[Iceman]

I think it's partly that the underdog begins to feel overwhelming pressure when the finishing line is in site. Kevin Anderson completely lost it in the third set, and couldn't take his chances afterwards.

Yeah that's probably the major factor. Much less pressure on the underdog until it comes to the matter of finishing the job at the death. And then when they lose their first opportunity their heads drop at their missed chance.