Batman Begins The Time Has Come: ASSASSIN32'S BEEF WITH BATMAN BEGINS

[Assassin32]

Let me start off by saying I enjoyed this movie. Hell, I liked so much I went out and bought the 2-Disc SE DVD at Best Buy the first day it came out. It even came with a holographic slip cover and a bad-ass comic book, so I was more than happy.

But, all that doesn't mean that I don't feel this film has been GROSSLY overrated. By critics, fans, everybody. My problem with Batman Begins lies in the most important area of any movie: It's soul. Batman Begins sorely lacked a sense of wonder and fanaticism. I understand that the filmmakers were after a gritty, realistic Gotham City, and that sounds intruiging in theory, but in the end, it just didn't work. Simple as that. It all ended up evoking more boredom than shock and pleasure at its realism.

At the end of the day, you must understand that Batman is no more realistic than Superman or the Green Lantern. He's a comic-book, for Christ's sake. Stripping him of his wonderment and unrealistic daring is to rob the character of his soul. Tim Burton knew this, and that's why he has yet to be usurped by Chris Nolan for the crown of "Best Batman Director."

Batman is sweepingly operatic, completely fantastical, and preternaturally unrealistic. Chris Nolan and David Goyer coverged to create a solid, successful, soul-less film. Maybe, in the sequel, the introduction of the over-the-top Joker will provoke some outlandish elements. The source material desperately pines for it.

Other things that bothered me:
That suit was ass-ugly

Keaton's gravelly inflections ass-rape Bale's "growl like a bear" thing any day of the week, and twice on Sundays

Batman's justification for killing Ra's

The death of his parents - WEAK

Tom Wilkenson is a wonderful actor, but DAMN was he miscast or what?

Mr. Zsasz was wasted

The twist was pretty weak

Those terrible one-liners that littered the movie - painful

The choppy editing during the training sequence with Liam Neeson

But, I can live with those. It's was the whole soul thing that made me mad.

 

[The Kid]

Before you get blasted, I have to say I agree with much of what you say. There's plenty to improve on for the next film and if it has that feeling, that operatic fantasy soul you get from the burton batman or the BTAS batman even, I'll be in heaven.

I just watched Batman Mask of the Phantasm a few days ago and it completely owns begins in every way. I was shocked. Please watch that and aim for something like that with TDK, Nolan.

 

[XCharlieX]

Before you get blasted,

I'll leave that to someone else. Its too easy, and repetitive.

 

[JTIZZLEVILLE]

But, all that doesn't mean that I don't feel this film has been GROSSLY overrated. By critics, fans, everybody.

If critics, fans, and everyone loves BB and you don't, don't you think that is your problem? Instead you try to blame it on the film but your comments don't hold any merit.

At the end of the day, you must understand that Batman is no more realistic than Superman or the Green Lantern.

Actually, you are totally wrong here. Batman is a normal human being. Batman has no super powers. He chose the life of a crime fighter, instead of being thrown into it (a la Spider-Man or Superman). This alone makes him the most realistic superhero.

BB was excellent. No bones about it.

 

[El Payaso]

If critics, fans, and everyone loves BB and you don't, don't you think that is your problem?

"Assassin32, are you attempting to elaborate your own opinion here sir?"



C'mon, the opinion might be debatable, not the poster.

Actually, you are totally wrong here. Batman is a normal human being. Batman has no super powers. He chose the life of a crime fighter, instead of being thrown into it (a la Spider-Man or Superman). This alone makes him the most realistic superhero.

Superman was thrown to the superhero life? How? He had total freedom to not to fight crime. It's not like some criminal did something directly to him or a loved one that pushed him into the superhero mission. Batman, on the other hand, started his superhero career exclusively because of his parents death. He was thrown into that by Joe Chill's action, like Peter Parker was because of the thug that killed uncle Ben. At least, what I've seen.


Just in case, I agree that BB was hgood, but some of the things this guy said are also true.

 

[Assassin32]

If critics, fans, and everyone loves BB and you don't, don't you think that is your problem? Instead you try to blame it on the film but your comments don't hold any merit.

It's the films job to prove to me it's amazing, not word of mouth. And if you think what I said has NO merit, then you need to read my original post again.

Actually, you are totally wrong here. Batman is a normal human being. Batman has no super powers. He chose the life of a crime fighter, instead of being thrown into it (a la Spider-Man or Superman). This alone makes him the most realistic superhero.

BB was excellent. No bones about it.

Nope. Batman is complete fantasy. He may have no powers, but he dresses up like a bat and fights crime every night. . . AND SURVIVES. That's completely unrealistic. Even with all that training, in the real world, he would be killed or captured within a month. Just because Batman's more realistic than other heroes, that doesn't mean he himself is realistic at all. He's not.

 

[Fenrir]

I don't think Batman Begins was "realistic" in any significant way. I believe the aim of the director was to make the character seem plausible in a universe that is somewhat but not entirely grounded in reality.

 

[Assassin32]

I thought he was trying to ground the character entirely in reality. Doesn't matter. Whatever he did, he took an important layer of luster off of the character for me.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Why didn't you post this in the thread I made?

Do you not like me, Assassin? I will interpret that as you not liking me. Okay?

 

[Fenrir]

I thought he was trying to ground the character entirely in reality. Doesn't matter. Whatever he did, he took an important layer of luster off of the character for me.

Personally, I thought Nolan's approach retained the quintessential spirit of what I always liked about Batman and then further building upon them. Batman's not as fantastical as other superheroes and even though he is called as one, ironically some of his best stories are heavily subdued in urban reality where he is a cunning vigilante rather than an admired hero.

 

[drunkhomer]

god did u really need to start another thread about bb bashing....

 

[The Kid]

Personally, I thought Nolan's approach retained the quintessential spirit of what I always liked about Batman and then further building upon them. Batman's not as fantastical as other superheroes and even though he is called as one, ironically some of his best stories are heavily subdued in urban reality where he is a cunning vigilante rather than an admired hero.

In some scenes I was just hoping Nolan would celebrate the fantastic comicbook nature of Batman with a badass pose or something that'd stick in my mind after seeing the movie. We do get that but it's so sparse throughout the film, it's not really lasting. There's hardly a moneyshot or a moment that lets you savor the pure coolness of batman. I'm not saying the movie has none but as we know it's kind of hard to follow batman due to the blink and you miss it editing. The best I can think of for badassery is SWEAR TO ME.

I think even when he does indulge in the more fantastic aspects they seem to be more diluted because most of the film plays it so straight forward like it's not a comicbook movie. Like the scarecrow scenes for instance... we get great iconic shots that don't really feel iconic because they recieve very point and shoot documentary style treatment. The flaming horse should have been in slow motion to really draw out the terror of the moment before the silly gag with rachael. I also felt more nasty shots of the scarecrow would have been great to see.

Slow motion...That's a great tool in cinema that was abused in the Matrix, but what I've read it can be used for is to elevate a moment beyond a normal humdrum moment to something special and significant that has more impact. I don't mean we need slow mo punching and crap like from the matrix at times, but for stuff like scarecrow on that flaming horse, some slow mo might have helped that scene really stick in our minds as somethign terrifying and iconic.

Batman's world is filled with abnormal, crazy fantasty stuff isn't it. Women controlling plants. A guy with an ice gun. Even a water vaporizer machine so there will be discordance with how real you can make this all seem vs how over the top and comicbooky you can get with some elements in the story. for me, I don't mind it getting over the top since that's what we're dealing with, an over the top comicbook character. Of course I don't want it to get campy and stupid like batman and robin, but It would have been cool if the character was revered and celebrated a little with some very flattering and iconic money shots and moments that really seem epic and legendary like what you'd get in a comic panel at times.

Like this:

but in the actual film. The music also plays a significant role in making shots like this so badass and iconic. Feel it. Relish the moment.

I think if my memory is correct when bruce goes down into his cave he stands around in it with bats flying everywhere while he's meditating or whatever. Now that was pretty good iconic moment that seems like it's a fantastical comicbook panel come to life. that's what I'm talking about doing.

 

[Fenrir]

In some scenes I was just hoping Nolan would celebrate the fantastic comicbook nature of Batman with a badass pose or something that'd stick in my mind after seeing the movie. We do get that but it's so sparse throughout the film, it's not really lasting. There's hardly a moneyshot or a moment that lets you savor the pure coolness of batman. I'm not saying the movie has none but as we know it's kind of hard to follow batman due to the blink and you miss it editing. The best I can think of for badassery is SWEAR TO ME.

I don't know, to me there were tons of those kinds of scenes in the film. First is the one when Batman "takes away" Falcone from the car - that was such an awesome shot. It captured the "supernatural/urban legend" aspect of the character perfectly, where it looks like he Batman can fly but we all know he doesn't, it's the grappling gun doing wonders there. Then there's the shot of Batman atop the scryscaper. Now there's an iconic moment for ya. Another similiar instance is Batman hanging on the ledge of a building in the Narrows. You want badass? How about Batman smashing the face of Crane's thug into a mirror? Batman bailing out of the monorail? The "where are you?!...here!" shot. All great moments and there are tons more, in my estimation.

I think even when he does indulge in the more fantastic aspects they seem to be more diluted because most of the film plays it so straight forward like it's not a comicbook movie. Like the scarecrow scenes for instance... we get great iconic shots that don't really feel iconic because they recieve very point and shoot documentary style treatment. The flaming horse should have been in slow motion to really draw out the terror of the moment before the silly gag with rachael. I also felt more nasty shots of the scarecrow would have been great to see.

I get what you're implying but I also see what Nolan tried to achieve with that. From my perspective, it seems that Nolan was aiming for subtlety in those scenes that captured both the essense and elements of the Batman universe without overdoing it.

Slow motion...That's a great tool in cinema that was abused in the Matrix, but what I've read it can be used for is to elevate a moment beyond a normal humdrum moment to something special and significant that has more impact. I don't mean we need slow mo punching and crap like from the matrix at times, but for stuff like scarecrow on that flaming horse, some slow mo might have helped that scene really stick in our minds as somethign terrifying and iconic.

Judging from Nolan's direction style, I don't think he'll ever use slow-motion in any of his Batman films, if any of his previous work is any indication of that.

Batman's world is filled with abnormal, crazy fantasty stuff isn't it. Women contsrolling plants. A guy with an ice gun. Even a water vaporizer machine so there will be discordance with how real you can make this all seem vs how over the top and comicbooky you can get with some elements in the story. for me, I don't mind it getting over the top since that's what we're dealing with, an over the top comicbook character. Of course I don't want it to get campy and stupid like batman and robin, but It would have been cool if the character was revered and celebrated a little with some very flattering and iconic money shots and moments that really seem epic and legendary like what you'd get in a comic panel at times.

Like I said earlier, there were plenty of those moments in the film, at least for me, so I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. Secondly, Batman Begins is not completely "realistic" - anyone who says so has lost his mind. Even in the couple of days I've been here at the Hype, I've seen far too many people complain of Nolan's focus on "realism" being misplaced in a comic book property like Batman. What they forget that a lot of the best Batman stories are also quite grounded in realism like Begins is. It's exaggerated within the context of the universe to make it seem a lot more plausible, yes, but the "realism" is there. Hyper-realism, if you will.

Like this:

but in the actual film. The music also plays a significant role in making shots like this so badass and iconic. Feel it. Relish the moment.

Again, not sure what you're missing really. The music did a kickass job of making Batman appear like a complete, uncompromising badass. Such as the moment before he ambushes Crane's thugs at Arkham, you hear these tribal drums beating while everyone's freaking out in the darkness.

And the scene where the Tumbler takes off from the parking lot and lands on the roof and the cop says "who is this guy?!", starts tearing through everything from antennas to pipes and the camera cuts to show the Tumbler powersliding on the roof - the music, the angles and the shots of dumbstruck cops was so unbelievably badass it almost made me jump and shout "**** YEAH!" in the theatre.

I think if my memory is correct when bruce goes down into his cave he stands around in it with bats flying everywhere while he's meditating or whatever. Now that was pretty good iconic moment that seems like it's a fantastical comicbook panel come to life. that's what I'm talking about doing.

I'm guessing there is something very specific you wanted to see in the film but didn't get it which is why you're disappointed.

 

[The Kid]

sure. amen.

Here are some more examples of great iconic batman imagery. The icing on the cake. The extra artistic touch. The emotional high peak. King Kong aint got nothin on batman moment.

If possible I'd like them to change the color scheme to more of of a dark night for the dark knight.

Close to this might work

Batman in the rain has always looked really good to me. So I hope there's more rain in The dark knight. It's like an outer expression of his own soul.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

If critics, fans, and everyone loves BB and you don't, don't you think that is your problem? Instead you try to blame it on the film but your comments don't hold any merit.



Actually, you are totally wrong here. Batman is a normal human being. Batman has no super powers. He chose the life of a crime fighter, instead of being thrown into it (a la Spider-Man or Superman). This alone makes him the most realistic superhero.

BB was excellent. No bones about it.

Have to agree whole heartedly with this.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I thought he was trying to ground the character entirely in reality. Doesn't matter. Whatever he did, he took an important layer of luster off of the character for me.

Sorry but i must disagree. The reason i liked Begins so much was because it gave Batman a realistic grounding. In Burton's movies, he pulled gadgets out from everywere but never knew how and were he got them from. Begins showed us were Batman got these things from and it just made more realistic and relatable to me.

the realism in BB is what makes it a great movie IMO.

 

[Assassin32]

Why didn't you post this in the thread I made?

Do you not like me, Assassin? I will interpret that as you not liking me. Okay?

god did u really need to start another thread about bb bashing....

The thing about it is, I'm not bashing. My thread is about something a lot more specific than whether or not you liked the movie.

 

[ShaneHelms]

Although i enjoy Batman Begins, I've actually considered making a thread like this for a while, But you beat me too it. While getting to know Batman's origin is terrfic and a great story, I dont feel we need the extent of details given; It takes away from the mystery and dazzling effect that Batman has, Which the first Batman film had. This is why Batman (1989) goes first over Batman Begins.