The Troy Davis Situation

[Marx]

I added a poll to the thread. Please be sure to vote.

 

[Marx]

I just read about his execution. I really do not understand how a man could be executed with so much doubt hanging over the case.

 

[bell110]

And that assesment is based on...?

What on earth makes you think the trial was fair?

Here is the information from the Amnesty International website:

June 2010: Evidentiary hearing

The hearing took place at the district court in Savannah on 23 June 2010. It was not the same as a trial: Troy was presumed guilty and the burden was on him to prove his innocence, beyond reasonable doubt, of a crime that happened over 20 years ago. During the hearing:

Four witnesses admitted in court that they lied at trial when they implicated Troy Davis
Four witnesses implicated another man as the one who killed Officer MacPhail
Three original state witnesses described police coercion during questioning, including one man who was 16 years old at the time of the murder
However, in August 2010, the federal district court judge ruled that although executing an innocent person would be unconstitutional, Troy had not met the extraordinarily high bar for proving his innocence.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=11458

Does any of that sound like he had a fair trial?

I'm talking about the original trial. Nothing at a time indicated people were lying. Sure, now with things coming to light, look into it further.

Pardoning Davis could have given him a lot of lost support from the liberal anti-death penalty voters, and some considerable support from anti-death conservatives too. Public opinion has long been aware of the injustices in the history of death rows, plus there's a huge chuck of America's electorate that opposes death penalties, including many die-hard pro-lifers.

Still, it was a major political risk and just plain looking for a fight... and I don't think the President is big on risk-taking.

Unfortunately, there's a large chunk that also favor the death penalty. Pardoning people for political reasons is just not a good idea. It would set a precedent where every death row inmate would seek the President's intervention. The Supreme Court looked in on this and for what ever reason denied his appeal. The President shouldn't be getting involved.

 

[The_Raganork]

I just read about his execution. I really do not understand how a man could be executed with so much doubt hanging over the case.

As far as I'm concerned his execution is illegal

 

[Matt]

In regards to the poll:

Do I believe that he was guilty? Probably. Though the media, Sharpton, and co. are now trying to make it seem like there was no evidence against Davis, there was. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence aside from just the witnesses who are recanting. Enough to imply guilt. That being said, do I think that he should've been executed? No. The witnesses alone were at least enough to delay it and investigate further. There was no harm in waiting. As I said earlier....probably is not good enough to execute someone based on.

 

[The_Raganork]

In regards to the poll:

Do I believe that he was guilty? Probably. Though the media, Sharpton, and co. are now trying to make it seem like there was no evidence against Davis, there was. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence aside from just the witnesses who are recanting. Enough to imply guilt. That being said, do I think that he should've been executed? No. The witnesses alone were at least enough to delay it and investigate further. There was no harm in waiting. As I said earlier....probably is not good enough to execute someone based on.

Yeah I was going to say this myself.

My beef is not that I think an innocent man was executed. It's the fact that they don't know he's guilty. The Death Penalty is a serious thing and it seems the Justice system got played with uncertainty and half truths.

 

[bullets]

Yeah I was going to say this myself.

My beef is not that I think an innocent man was executed. It's the fact that they don't know he's guilty. The Death Penalty is a serious thing and it seems the Justice system got played with uncertainty and half truths.

I should recant my statement from earlier. I do believe in the death penalty but only when it's beyond reasonable doubt that person is guilty.

Not sure I'll buy the t-shirt though.

 

[Schlosser85]

I am a staunch enough supporter of capital punishment that I wrote essays defending it in school, but this case is an embarrassment to the American justice system.

No, second thought, embarrassment is too light a word. This case is a disgrace.

Was Davis guilty? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted their testimony alone should be enough to step back and take a closer look at his case.

 

[Chewy]

I don't think the poll question is the right one. I have no idea if he was guilty.

It's an affront to humanity that he was executed despite reasonable doubt.

 

[Punisher Rising]

While I support the death penalty, I think there was too much doubt in this case to move along with it. I firmly believe if there's no hard evidence at all linking the accused to the crime then they can't be punished. In this case there was too much reasonable doubt to move along with such a decision.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'm talking about the original trial. Nothing at a time indicated people were lying. Sure, now with things coming to light, look into it further.

With witnesses admitting to police coercion and LYING during the initial trial, i'm going to say NO, he did not have a fair original trial either.

The whole thing was corrupted from the beginning. I have no idea why, but that much is obvious.

 

[bell110]

With witnesses admitting to police coercion and LYING during the initial trial, i'm going to say NO, he did not have a fair original trial either.

The whole thing was corrupted from the beginning. I have no idea why, but that much is obvious.

People lie on the stand all the time. It's the defense and prosecutors' job to poke holes in those lies. People lying doesn't make the trial unfair. Forensic evidence was omittied because the police ****ed up. If that evidence was brought up, that would be unfair. I don't believe the original trial was corrupted.

I agree that his execution should have been put off. I am not convinced that he was innocent.

 

[Spider-Nerd]

I added a poll to the thread. Please be sure to vote.

Marx, I think the poll is focused on the wrong issue here. The focus of us "thinking" or "believing" him to be innocent or guilty misses the point as I see it.


I myself am not entirely sure Troy Davis was innocent. He very well may have committed the murder of that poor policeman, but I think the major issue is whether or not he should have been executed given the information, specifically regarding police corruption and the witness' recanting testimony that had come up after his conviction.

I guess what I'm saying is the question of his culpability for the crime is independent of the question of whether the execution should have been carried out. I believe the later to be the important issue here.

 

[The Question]

Troy Davis' innocence was largely irrelevent to me because I am ataunchly ooposed to the death penalty. It is dangerous and serves no practical purpose, the only thing we get out of it is catharsis for grieving families, which is an irrational and dangerous thing to base legislation on and is not worth risking innocent lives for.

That being said, wether or not you support the death penalty, I echo the statements of previous posters in that there was far too much doubt about it.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

I'm not completely against the death penalty, but I think it should be reserved for the ones they are completely certain of, the ones who they find with the pile of bodies and the furniture made of human skin. Yeah, I know that sounds grim, but the worst ones are the ones who don't need to be among the populace anymore. do I believe this man was guilty? I'm not sure. With as hard as he and people fought for him, I'd be willing to say there was reasonable doubt to him having committed the murder, but I really have no idea, nor do I really think anyone else does. I can't really say 20 years passing would have had a positive effect on anyone involved in the case and hving it continually brought up over that time period, but again, I can't really be sure.

 

[Faramir]

People lie on the stand all the time. It's the defense and prosecutors' job to poke holes in those lies.

When people lie in their testimony, they get charged with perjury and their testimony strictly removed as evidence. That didn't happen this time. No justice system can run on the assumption that witnesses lie on the stand. If so, more than 70% of criminal case sentences would have to be repealed.

 

[mrvlknight21]

Imma be blunt. He died because he was black.

 

[Spider-Nerd]

While I agree the previous poster could have most certainly put it more eloquently, perhaps we can agree that race played a part in this. Whether or not it was THE part I'm not sure, but I have a hard time believing that race didn't play any part in this.

 

[mrvlknight21]

While I agree the previous poster could have most certainly put it more eloquently, perhaps we can agree that race played a part in this. Whether or not it was THE part I'm not sure, but I have a hard time believing that race didn't play any part in this.

Let me start by saying that he (IncredibleSK)and I have had a few "debates" and the basis for nearly ALL of his arguments that enter into this sort of topic are that 1) Cops are dirty and 2) Blacks are victims. A little simplified, but I doubt that he truly read about the trial, evidence, testimony, circumstances, all of the appeals, what the judges said who heard the appeals, etc etc. that led to Troy Davis' conviction and eventual execution.

I am not ignorant enough to think that racism doesn't exist, but again, I do not think it played a role in this.

 

[Bat-Mite]

I think economic background plays a bigger part than race. When is the last time you heard of a wealthy person being executed? It's not like the wealthy don't commit murder.

Cameron Todd Willingham's case was very similar to this one and he was still executed. And yes, he was a white man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Not everyone is getting the Troy Davis treatment....

Judges rule Asheville men convicted of murder are innocent
http://www.citizen-times.com/articl...nnocent?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Frontpage|s

The panel ordered both men set free — almost 11 years after being jailed for a killing in which they had no part. Their decision marked only the second case in North Carolina in which convictions were overturned under a law that created the N.C. Innocence Inquiry Commission in 2006.

Kagonyera and Wilcoxson pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in Bowman’s slaying but later said they were under intense pressure from prosecutors, investigators, family members and their own attorneys for fear they could spend life in prison or be sentenced to death.

I was for the death penalty at one time but have changed my mind over the years as more and more cases have been overturned. To think if these guys stood strong on their innocence and lost that case they could have possibly been sitting on death row right now...innocent. All because of law enforcement holding back evidence that could have exonerated them from the start.

 

[bell110]

When people lie in their testimony, they get charged with perjury and their testimony strictly removed as evidence. That didn't happen this time. No justice system can run on the assumption that witnesses lie on the stand. If so, more than 70% of criminal case sentences would have to be repealed.

Again, it's the defense and prosecution that have poke holes in the story of the witnesses. The justice system doesn't run on the assumption of anything except that the defendent is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Faramir]

Yeah, but unfortunately nobody is safe from a bad defense. And even with a good defense, the accused can be subject to bad judges. Which is what seems to have happened with Davis.

 

[bell110]

That's what appeals are for. For what ever reason, his appeals were denied.

 

[Faramir]

And that's it? For whatever reason... that's it? No possibility of mistake?

Death penalty sentences happen to have a no so short history of people proven innocent after they were executed. Judges are not infallible. And in front of an increasing amount of uncertainty (like the testimonial changes) they didn't budge. There are lots of reasons for people to be infuriated.