The "Wars of the Past" Thread

[Hobgoblin]

Mao is essentially a replacement leader for the authoritarians that the Chinese were used to for thousands of years before the Boxer Rebellion happened. The Chinese didn't know anything else except dynasties of monarchs for centuries and did not have much knowledge to adapt to a democratic system, nor is their culture so individualistic either. However I feel in the future the time is coming for the end of communism in China as it is more economically significant in the world, they two system's can't really operate together that well. China seems practically a capitalist nation anyway more and more as time goes on. Mao would not be happy.

Besides the Chinese Civil War technically didn't end, not until Taiwan is truly independent or the two governments reconcile will there be a true end to the strife. If Taiwan ever does declare independence officially, they will be shelled from the mainland before they know it. If the US gets involved that's a recipe for disaster in the Pacific.

I dont think they will ever formally declare independence, for just that reason. It serves no purpose. Taiwan and China are at peace and prospering. War would ruin all of that, and probably lead to WW3.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Which war has been least talked about in American History? World War I or The War of 1812? I think it's the War of 1812.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I dont think they will ever formally declare independence, for just that reason. It serves no purpose. Taiwan and China are at peace and prospering. War would ruin all of that, and probably lead to WW3.

Plus Taiwan's new president is said to be pro-China.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Between those two choices? Its hard to say, both are pretty neglected. However, there are other wars that are even more neglected than those two.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Plus Taiwan's new president is said to be pro-China.

I havent been keeping track of that potential flash-point lately, as its been pretty quiet. In the future, we may see a more aggressive Taiwanese president.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Between those two choices? Its hard to say, both are pretty neglected. However, there are other wars that are even more neglected than those two.

Of the two, World War I is the most neglected. Mainly because this year is the bicentennial of the War of 1812 so there is a lot going on for it. Things will likely be different in a couple of years.

Normally hard to say. World War I definitely has more exposure in terms of films and books, but the War of 1812 took place in North America and there are loads of historic sites that people can visit so it is closer to home. Here in the Sunshine State, the War of 1812 gets overshadowed by the Seminole Wars though.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Between those two choices? Its hard to say, both are pretty neglected. However, there are other wars that are even more neglected than those two.

Of course, such as the Mexican-American War, the Seminole Wars, the Indian Wars and probably the Spanish-American War.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Of the two, World War I is the most neglected. Mainly because this year is the bicentennial of the War of 1812 so there is a lot going on for it. Things will likely be different in a couple of years.

Normally hard to say. World War I definitely has more exposure in terms of films and books, but the War of 1812 took place in North America and there are loads of historic sites that people can visit so it is closer to home. Here in the Sunshine State, the War of 1812 gets overshadowed by the Seminole Wars though.

I havent heard that. Maybe on the east coast and south there will be some kind of observance but here in the midwest I havent heard anything. Everyone is more focused on the election.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There are two reason World War I is so underrepresented. One is rather obviously the much bigger sequel, World War II.

And the other reason is that America didn't really get to do much in World War I. Americans, like most people, are more interested in wars in which they are featured prominently.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I havent heard that. Maybe on the east coast and south there will be some kind of observance but here in the midwest I havent heard anything. Everyone is more focused on the election.

http://www.visit1812.com/

Most of the war was fought in and around Lake Erie, the Niagara Peninsula, Lake Ontario, and the St. Lawrence River, with additional theatres in the south and in Maryland, so that's where the emphasis is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I do find it funny when Canadians take credit for the razing of DC in 1814. Even though the attack was carried out by British regulars from Bermuda, led by an Irish general with an unfortunate surname (Cockburn).

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There are two reason World War I is so underrepresented. One is rather obviously the much bigger sequel, World War II.

And the other reason is that America didn't really get to do much in World War I. Americans, like most people, are more interested in wars in which they are featured prominently.

I wouldn't really say the Americans didn't get to do much in World War I. It is the third bloodiest war in American history after the Civil War and World War II. It also featured prominently in early Hollywood and still does occasionally.

But in American history it doesn't have as much importance as the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and World War II so it doesn't get as much play. Vietnam is different in that it occurred in the lifetimes of millions of still living Americans. World War I isn't nearly as forgotten as the Korean War.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I do find it funny when Canadians take credit for the razing of DC in 1814. Even though the attack was carried out by British regulars from Bermuda, led by an Irish general with an unfortunate surname (Cockburn).

That's because in 1814 Canadians (especially Ontarians) considered themselves as being a part of Britain. There was no difference as far as they were concerned.

 

[Thundercrack85]

World War II is the War though. It overshadows everything.

I should clarify my statement, in World War I, America played a limited supporting role. And it's debatable how much they contributed to the ultimate outcome. It would have been prolonged though.

In World War II, America basically showed up on a white horse and liberated half the world. Unless you're a Soviet, in which case they kind of rained on your parade (assuming the Soviets could have taken Germany without direct and indirect aid of the United States).

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't disagree with you on that. But there is a big difference between being ignored and not being as big as World War II.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The appeal is limited for an American audience.

 

[8wid]

What does everyone think would have happened in a war between the German Empire and the United States between the time of World War I and the Spanish-American War. If you know the fear of Germany's expanding role in the Pacific and fear of invasion of the Philippines and other territories acquired by the United States. Before the Japanese were considered a threat the reason a naval base was installed at Pearl Harbor was because of fears Germany was expansive.

What would have happened during such a war? I think the German invading from their colony in Papa New Guinea and marching on Minilia, destroying the primitive US Pacific Fleet, using U-boats to destroy the US Atlantic fleet in open warfare and using naval destroyers to shell major port cities on the eastern coast of the United States. They might even have been able to blockade the eastern coast of America until it gave in. America would not have been able to fight back and would have surrendered all the territories it acquired in the war against Spain. This would have made them more bitter when World War I began. No invasion of the continental United States would ever have been able for Germany.

Now imagine if the Japanese had seized the Pacific territories of Germany after their defeat in World War I as they did, they would have been part of that Empire and the without the Philippines being in the way of the much needed Dutch East Indies and no reason for the Japanese to attack the United States in World War II. It also probably limited the ability of America to fight back if war did break out in the Pacific any way.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The Germans got in the colonial business too late for that. There's a reason their possessions in the Pacific fell so quickly. They were undermanned, underdeveloped, etc. The Dutch, British and French had been carving out territories there for centuries. The Germans didn't get on the imperialist scene until the late 19th century.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I have a book called 1901 by Robert Conroy. It deals with a war in which Imperial Germany invaded New England in that year. It is based on real, historical tensions between Germany and America in the time between 1889 (when the two countries nearly fought over Samoa) and shortly after the U.S. took the Philippines from Spain. There were some plans drawn up by the Germans for limited attacks on American trade and industry in New England but von Schlieffen said such operations would be too much of a drain on the German army.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Such plans just weren't realistic. Germany's limited sea access has always been detrimental to such plans. And the Americans had a powerful Atlantic fleet at the time.

It's like the Zimmermann telegram. German pipe dreams.

 

[Scourge2099]

I do find it funny when Canadians take credit for the razing of DC in 1814. Even though the attack was carried out by British regulars from Bermuda, led by an Irish general with an unfortunate surname (Cockburn).

The funny thing is that American troops attacked York and burnt down their Parliament buildings. York is present day Toronto btw. Canadians never bring that up for some reason.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Not technically on topic, but if the world were at total war again, how would people see it progressing?

 

[Thundercrack85]

What, World War III?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Essentially, yeah. I know it's near impossible, but I've being doing Cold War work and playing some CoD and now I've got WWIII stuck in my head.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, there are a few plausible scenarios. But the 60-year old Russia vs America scenario has run its course.

I can't see World War III breaking out in the next ten years. But we will likely see a second Cold War, some would say it's already started. With China and the US facing off. So, there's that. Which should get interesting with India now also becoming a world power.

That's not to say we won't have any major wars. All it takes is a rogue state with nuclear weapons.