The Wrestling Thread...I Thought You Were Dead

[bullets]

It would be perfect actually. Do you know how much hype WM would get if SCSA and Rock were coming back to to wrestle in matches again.

It would be cool for that to happen . However I'd like to see Austin's return match get top billing . Also Wrestlemania 29 wouldn't be able to top it or have anything comparable.

 

[epc11223]

You're welcome for the info, in the origins of Doom he is a scientist with Reed Richards and there is an accident during an experiment they are conducting, he is injured in the accident and wears the mask to cover his injuries and vows revenge on Reed, but later when the mask comes off it's discovered that he is not disfigured at all, he only has a tiny scratch on his right cheek, it's all in his warped mind and ego.

eh, than that does sound like a bit of a rip off. but the only difference i can tell is that the joker is a much more popular, well known character than dr. doom and sting is using heath ledger's portrayal to influence his character. if you ask the general audience who is sting portraying, they will probably say the joker. if you ask the same people who is cody rhodes trying to portray, i doubt they'll even know who dr. doom is. especially since the fantastic four movies weren't all that successful and they never touched on the subject of dr. doom in reality being not scarred at all.

 

[Hunter Rider]

eh, than that does sound like a bit of a rip off. but the only difference i can tell is that the joker is a much more popular, well known character than dr. doom and sting is using heath ledger's portrayal to influence his character. if you ask the general audience who is sting portraying, they will probably say the joker. if you ask the same people who is cody rhodes trying to portray, i doubt they'll even know who dr. doom is. especially since the fantastic four movies weren't all that successful and they never touched on the subject of dr. doom in reality being not scarred at all.

Oh I am not arguing the point one way or the other, I was just giving some background on how Cody has riffed on the Doom origin, there are enough differences to make him stand out as just being influenced by, rather than totally ripping off Doom. In the case of Sting's Joker it is a direct rip off of the Ledger Joker.

 

[epc11223]

Oh I am not arguing the point one way or the other, I was just giving some background on how Cody has riffed on the Doom origin, there are enough differences to make him stand out as just being influenced by, rather than totally ripping off Doom. In the case of Sting's Joker it is a direct rip off of the Ledger Joker.

i concur about sting and dont know about cody so just for the sake of it, i'll concur with that too lol

 

[Wheels]

Yeah most people wouldn't see the connection between Rhodes' character and Dr. Doom but a large chunk of comic fans will given Doom's history and the fact that Cody wears a mask and a hood.

 

[Metallo]

i'm not really up for this whole big debate over homage/rip offs. but i'm curious why you always make it out to be wwe vs tna when i didn't bring up wwe at all. i never even said "oh it was great when wwe did an homage to something". if wwe rips off something it usually comes off as corny because they make it into a parody.

i'm a huge comic book fan so for me it's blatant when a company uses a comic book source. again, i've never seen the shining so wwe using that would come off as original if i have no prior knowledge to it.

when a wrestler like rey mysterio dresses up like captain america/avatar it's because the wrestler enjoys the character and he even said himself it was an homage to his favorites. it's not like wwe started selling rey/captain america masks.

but again to the point. if someone isn't even mentioning wwe in the conversation, i don't feel it to be necessary to keep bringing it up. seems like you always make it into wwe vs tna when there really is no competition. why can't someone just dislike tna for what they do? you make it sound like you can't dislike anything about tna because wwe may have done something similar. i never once said that when wwe does it that it's a good thing. they just haven't really done something quite as blatant to me.

Your a big comic book fan? I'd think by my user name its obvious so am I. Whats your point? I'm a fan and spotted it. So what?

besides YOU were the one that brought up Rey's comic book inspired costumes as a comparison not me. Thats you bringing something in WWE into this right there.

The fact is stuff like this is done for promotion all the time be it in WWE TNA or anywhere else.

There have been plenty of gimmicks in WWE that were being pushed as Serious. Razor Ramon was taken RIGHT out of Scarface...that wasn't a parody. The whole act is a combo of Montana and his buddys personalities. The mannerisms, the speech patterns...right from Scarface. Even the razor blades on his tights are a sly reference.

But it was awesome.

Its not the first time its been done in wrestling.

As for the Shining being in 1980 making it not so blatant? That right there shows me your bias by making an excuse for WWE. It was a popular movie that is parodied TO THIS DAY. Starring Jack Nicholson, based on a book by Stephen King, and directed by Stanley Kubrick...all three HIGH PROFILE people. The movie itself was high profile.

30 years later and we still have to suffer through the lame "Heeeeere's Johnny!" jokes. The Simpsons even spoofed that scene.

WWE wouldn't have based their poster work on the Shining poster unless they knew some people would find it familiar. Its JUST as blatant.

The Road Warriors, Razor, Crow Sting. JBL an arrogant Texas millionaire? Didn't he ADMIT that was taken right off JR Ewing among other things?

If Sting was a TRUE full fledged ripoff of The Joker from TDK why isn't he wearing a purple suit with green hair like Ledger? Even The Road Warriors took the pads and spikes from the movie.

TNA is not holding on for "deer" life. Do you have access to their financial records? Jesus there was JUST a report that said they do turn a profit. If they were hanging on for dear life that wouldn't be so.

 

[Metallo]

Yeah most people wouldn't see the connection between Rhodes' character and Dr. Doom but a large chunk of comic fans will given Doom's history and the fact that Cody wears a mask and a hood.

Considering what seems to be a large crossover between comic book fans or at least fans of these types of characters and wrestling fans I think there might be more people that make the connection than you think...especially given older generations who were around when Doom made his debut. Wrestling AND comics were pretty popular at that time. The comic books themselves were certainly read by far more people in 1962 than today where readership has dwindled.

Look how many wrestlers were/are comic book fans or at least superhero fans growing up. Bret Hart, Lex Luger, The Road Warriors, Helms. You can see the influence in a lot of guys. Even people like Sting. And its certainly there with some of the younger talent who were fans before they were wrestlers.

Plus Even though the comics themselves aren't as popular the characters have been showcased in different media that is much more mainstream like movies.

if anything Codys look reminds me more of movie Doom than comic book Doom with the mask/hooded jacket combo.

There are a lot of people familiar with these characters through movies/cartoons and video games these days instead of comics.

 

[Metallo]

Basically Rhodes had a match with Rey and took the 619, in the storyline the claim was it broke his nose and "disfigured" him because Rey's knee brace hit him directly. At the time Rhodes was "Dashing" Cody Rhodes, a guy obsessed with his good looks.

When he returned he wore a mask to hide his hideous disfigurement, only there isn't a mark on him, it's all in his head, so he's now this psychologically damaged bad guy.

You're welcome for the info, in the origins of Doom he is a scientist with Reed Richards and there is an accident during an experiment they are conducting, he is injured in the accident and wears the mask to cover his injuries and vows revenge on Reed, but later when the mask comes off it's discovered that he is not disfigured at all, he only has a tiny scratch on his right cheek, it's all in his warped mind and ego.

Its interesting but Stan Lee and Jack Kirby always split on what Doom REALLY looked like after the accident.


Lee was of the mind that Doom was immediately horribly disfigured. Kirby thought that Doom only had a scratch and he was so vain that he thought his perfect looks were ruined. Thats VERY similar to Cody, who inured his nose and thought he was now a hideous monster. The clear mask goes to show its all in his head...much like with Kirbys view of Doom.

Even more funny is that they've tried different takes on Doom over the years with some trying to merge the two versions by saying Doom put the mask on while it was still white hot and THAT ruined his face.

Its pretty obvious someone based it on Doom but its great. Codys execution has been perfect and thats why it works.

Crow Sting was in many ways visually more of a "rip off" than Joker Sting. Sting hasn't dyed his hair green for Joker Sting and his gear is the same. its the paint and persona thats changed. But Crow Sting worked because of the story behind and the execution of the gimmick not just the gimmick itself.

But I'm gonna add a funny ending to this and say that the Jokers look was taken right from a movie called "The Man Who Laughs"

So who ripped off who here?

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Shane Helmes was caught for DUI :/

 

[Dr. Evil]

It would be cool for that to happen . However I'd like to see Austin's return match get top billing . Also Wrestlemania 29 wouldn't be able to top it or have anything comparable.

Woud Stone Cold be healthy enough to return for one last match?

 

[Metallo]

Shane Helmes was caught for DUI :/

The guy just survived a near fatal vehicle crash AND he's been discussing the fact that Matt Hardy has problems and he goes and does this?

Those OMEGA boys are certainly living up to that name aren't they?

Shannon Moore seems to be the only stable one.

Woud Stone Cold be healthy enough to return for one last match?

Yeah I think so. His neck has had years off with no serious wear on it and he seems to be in good health. When he was workign out in the ring on Tough Enough he seemed to be moving aroudn pretty well for an inactive wrestler.

Austins easily got one more match in him since he's been taking it relatively easy for years

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

The guy just survived a near fatal vehicle crash AND he's been discussing the fact that Matt Hardy has problems and he goes and does this?

Those OMEGA boys are certainly living up to that name aren't they?

Shannon Moore seems to be the only stable one.

Proberly because of the car accident his dad had.

 

[Slushy]

It would be cool for that to happen . However I'd like to see Austin's return match get top billing . Also Wrestlemania 29 wouldn't be able to top it or have anything comparable.

Agreed. Austin retired in 2003. His return match should go on last so it would be better used as the main event of Wrestlemania 29 or 30. As much as I'd love to see Austin Vs. Punk, I'd hate to see it get overshadowed by Rock Vs. Cena.

And if Austin doesn't headline Mania 29 or 30, his match should get the most promotion or at least the cover art like Hogan did for both of his comeback Mania matches.

Basically Rhodes had a match with Rey and took the 619, in the storyline the claim was it broke his nose and "disfigured" him because Rey's knee brace hit him directly. At the time Rhodes was "Dashing" Cody Rhodes, a guy obsessed with his good looks.

When he returned he wore a mask to hide his hideous disfigurement, only there isn't a mark on him, it's all in his head, so he's now this psychologically damaged bad guy.

I thought he had a (kayfabe) nose surgery that caused him to miss out on being in the Royal Rumble.

 

[epc11223]

Your a big comic book fan? I'd think by my user name its obvious so am I. Whats your point? I'm a fan and spotted it. So what?

besides YOU were the one that brought up Rey's comic book inspired costumes as a comparison not me. Thats you bringing something in WWE into this right there.

The fact is stuff like this is done for promotion all the time be it in WWE TNA or anywhere else.

There have been plenty of gimmicks in WWE that were being pushed as Serious. Razor Ramon was taken RIGHT out of Scarface...that wasn't a parody. The whole act is a combo of Montana and his buddys personalities. The mannerisms, the speech patterns...right from Scarface. Even the razor blades on his tights are a sly reference.

But it was awesome.

Its not the first time its been done in wrestling.

As for the Shining being in 1980 making it not so blatant? That right there shows me your bias by making an excuse for WWE. It was a popular movie that is parodied TO THIS DAY. Starring Jack Nicholson, based on a book by Stephen King, and directed by Stanley Kubrick...all three HIGH PROFILE people. The movie itself was high profile.

30 years later and we still have to suffer through the lame "Heeeeere's Johnny!" jokes. The Simpsons even spoofed that scene.

WWE wouldn't have based their poster work on the Shining poster unless they knew some people would find it familiar. Its JUST as blatant.

The Road Warriors, Razor, Crow Sting. JBL an arrogant Texas millionaire? Didn't he ADMIT that was taken right off JR Ewing among other things?

If Sting was a TRUE full fledged ripoff of The Joker from TDK why isn't he wearing a purple suit with green hair like Ledger? Even The Road Warriors took the pads and spikes from the movie.

TNA is not holding on for "deer" life. Do you have access to their financial records? Jesus there was JUST a report that said they do turn a profit. If they were hanging on for dear life that wouldn't be so.

actually you were the one who brought up wwe first by referencing edge and the shining. in my original post i said nothing about wwe. i had a feeling that you would bring up rey later in the discussion so i figured i'd bring it up first. i dont see how the road warriors are a copy of anything, maybe you can shed light on what you mean by that one. is that from the shining? captain america just came out and thats the big difference that i don't think you're really grasping. the joker was back in 2008. that's why it's much more of a rip off/trying to grasp onto the coat tails of something else thats popular. they still have captain america on soda bottles in super markets. i never said it was the first time, and it won't be the last time, but that doesn't make it any more/less right or original. sting does not have to be exactly like exactly like the joker to be a rip off of the character. he's still trying to portray heath's joker with no real reason for it. this isn't good story telling or real, especially when months ago hogan tried to make it sound like things in tna were about to get real. i think wwe has actually taken hogans idea of making things real and done a better job with them having "fights" on twitter and things of that nature.

http://www.tnasylum.com/2011/08/rumor-frustration-on-huntsville-ticket.html

http://www.ring-rap.com/2011/08/11/...-tapings-continue-to-draw-lousy-ticket-sales/

oh well, i'm sure i can talk more about this but im hungry for lunch lol.

 

[Dr. Evil]

TNA isn't going to die. It's just stuck.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Jeff Hardy return spoiler

Spoiler

TNA held a double television taping on Thursday night from Huntsville, Alabama - and one of the more newsworthy happenings was the return of Jeff Hardy.

Hardy came out and cut a promo saying that The Network gave him a chance to address the fans of TNA.

Hardy apologized for his conduct at Victory Road, when he showed up "in no condition to perform" and his main event match against Sting had to be cut to les than 30 seconds. Jeff said that his personali ssues "put the show in the toilet" and he knows he let everybody down.

Jeff asked everybody for one more chance - which got a huge "One More Chance" chant from the crowd.

Jeff placed the microphone down in the middle of the ring and exited to the back.

www.lordsofpain.net

 

[Slushy]

Great what if article on if Sting had joined WWE during the alliance storyline.I have to say it's sad we missed out on these matches especially the top two.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...ould-have-been

Sting Vs. HBK, Rock, HHH, and Undertaker would've been something. Definitely the matches I would pay good money for.

TNA isn't going to die. It's just stuck.

Exactly. Nothing will change until Vince Russo is fired.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Z! True Long Island Story Episode # 28

WOO, WOO, WOO
[YT]R2o2Z1pVA3o[/YT]

 

[Dr. Evil]

The WWE signs another ROH guy, although its not Colt Cabana or The Kings of Wrestling....it's Sterling James Keenan.

 

[Metallo]

actually you were the one who brought up wwe first by referencing edge and the shining. in my original post i said nothing about wwe. i had a feeling that you would bring up rey later in the discussion so i figured i'd bring it up first. i dont see how the road warriors are a copy of anything, maybe you can shed light on what you mean by that one. is that from the shining? captain america just came out and thats the big difference that i don't think you're really grasping. the joker was back in 2008. that's why it's much more of a rip off/trying to grasp onto the coat tails of something else thats popular. they still have captain america on soda bottles in super markets. i never said it was the first time, and it won't be the last time, but that doesn't make it any more/less right or original. sting does not have to be exactly like exactly like the joker to be a rip off of the character. he's still trying to portray heath's joker with no real reason for it. this isn't good story telling or real, especially when months ago hogan tried to make it sound like things in tna were about to get real. i think wwe has actually taken hogans idea of making things real and done a better job with them having "fights" on twitter and things of that nature.

http://www.tnasylum.com/2011/08/rumor-frustration-on-huntsville-ticket.html

http://www.ring-rap.com/2011/08/11/...-tapings-continue-to-draw-lousy-ticket-sales/

oh well, i'm sure i can talk more about this but im hungry for lunch lol.

I didn't say anything about Rey Mysterio first in comparison...YOU did. Just cause you THOUGHT I was goign to bring up Rey Mysterio is meaningless. I never got the chance cause you did first.

It doesn't matter if its 2008 or 1980. If you call one a ripoff the other is a ripoff. The Shining is a well known movie and even if it wasn't a ripoff its a ripoff by your logic.

Like I said you're making an excuse for WWE on the same issue that you are questioning TNA on.

The Road Warriors took their NAME, their look, and their characters from various elements of the movie The ROAD WARRIOR and the other Mad Max movies. How anybody can't see that is absurd.

They were a post apocalyptic biker gang right out of the movie.

Are you gonna tell me you've never heard of Mad Max?

Animal admitted thats where it came from. Animal has also admitted the name "Legion of Doom" came from the Challenge of The Superfriends cartoon when the stable that included them, Jake Roberts, and others first formed.

And Stings NOT an exact copy of Ledgers Joker. Wheres the hair? Wheres the suit? His face isn't scarred. Why's he not running around with knives and switchblades?

I see just as much of CESAR ROMERO and JACK NICHOLSON's Jokers in Sting as I do Ledgers. The biggest thing he's taking from Ledger is the facepaint. Sting's acting goofy not sociopathic. If you were the DC fan you claim you'd see that. Instead you've gone with the immediate knee jerk reaction

Sting can take his persona from the movie Joker but like I said Razor took his persona from Scarface and you ignore what I said? Even though you said WWE has NEVER done a non parody character like that when Razor was a serious character?

Stings paying tribute to the guy not ripping him off. Its the same way he was inspired by the Crow. The ONLY difference is the Crow had better execution.

If you're gonna start tearing Sting down then you better start tearing down half the characters in pro wrestling.

A lot of elements of Ledgers Joker was inspired by OTHER works. The Joker himself was copied right off a silent movie. Like i said what your complaining about is as old as time itself so you got a lot o f catching up to do.

If you're gonna rip on Sting be fair and rip on the execution not the inspiration.

BESIDES the facepaint what is Joker Sting doing that every other version of the Joker DIDN'T do? His act is far more in the vein of silly than disturbing like Ledgers Joker was. That was what Romero did as The Joker.

Look at Stings suit in this picture. He only wore it once. How can you say that's a ripoff of Ledger when he LOOKS more like Ceasar Romero?

Does he look more like Romero there or Ledger?

This idea that he's "cheaply disrespecting Heath" stuff is nonsense. Or that he's portraying "Heath's Joker." He might not be doing it very well but its clear he's taking elements from ALL Jokers. Its not a straight rehash of Ledger. If Sting was doing that he wouldn't have cut his hair. Its shorter now than its been in years...which is more like the classic Joker than the Ledger Joker. And Sting would be playing it far more twisted. He's not.

The biggest grab from Ledger is the facepaint...with the makeup mimicking scars and looking smudged on.

A scar grin? That was already done in one if not TWO Crow movies. I'm pretty sure that in Crow Salvation the black lipstick smile was replaced with...you guessed it...scars.

 

[Metallo]

Jeff Hardy return spoiler

Spoiler

TNA held a double television taping on Thursday night from Huntsville, Alabama - and one of the more newsworthy happenings was the return of Jeff Hardy.

Hardy came out and cut a promo saying that The Network gave him a chance to address the fans of TNA.

Hardy apologized for his conduct at Victory Road, when he showed up "in no condition to perform" and his main event match against Sting had to be cut to les than 30 seconds. Jeff said that his personali ssues "put the show in the toilet" and he knows he let everybody down.

Jeff asked everybody for one more chance - which got a huge "One More Chance" chant from the crowd.

Jeff placed the microphone down in the middle of the ring and exited to the back.

www.lordsofpain.net

I respect the fact that [BLACKOUT]he admitted he screwed up and it was his fault. I wish more wrestlers could do that.[/BLACKOUT]

But now if he wants a lot of people to take him seriously he has to prove to people that he's cleaned himself up and can perform without getting impaired.

 

[BlackLantern]

Great what if article on if Sting had joined WWE during the alliance storyline.I have to say it's sad we missed out on these matches especially the top two.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-wwe-the-10-best-matches-that-could-have-been

And if wishes were horses, we'd all be knee deep in s***....not much you can do when guys have guaranteed contracts through Time Warner and are basically being paid to sit home....Ric Flair walked away from the last million on his contract to go to the WWE

 

[Metallo]

And if wishes were horses, we'd all be knee deep in s***....not much you can do when guys have guaranteed contracts through Time Warner and are basically being paid to sit home....Ric Flair walked away from the last million on his contract to go to the WWE

Flair was smart. He got most of his TW money but coming in early was a move that looked a bit more like he was eager to be in WWE instead of just coming JUST for the money. Lets be honest he DID come for the money but it makes him look slightly less money hungry beause he could have collected every last cent of that Time Warner contract THEN jumped to WWE. But he didn't do that. Vince would have taken Flair either way because he loves the act, he was always impressed with the performer, and Flair had people in the company that could put in a good word.

It certainly looked better than guys like The NWO and Goldberg who tried to get every cent they could instead of leaving any of it on the table.

As for the Invasion...Vince was stupid. Sure some good matches came out of it but he could have matched some of the bigger money contracts because if he had he would have MORE than made his money back over the next year if the Invasion angle took off.

It was somewhat impotent without the big names and I'd bet money if WWF had more of those big names people would have been a lot more interested than seeing WWF stars dominate the B list WCW guys.

It was just poorly handled and even though we all knew it would end as a McMahon ego stroke he could have at least TRIED to hide the fact that it would be a little better.

Stuff like putting Stephanie in charge of ECW cut that groups nuts off immediately.

Taking a gamble and matching those Time Warner contracts would been a far safer gamble than the XFL...which he took a f***in bath on financially.

 

[Metallo]

Update On Sin Cara Character - Original Wrestler Reportedly Loses Role
By Daniel Pena
Aug 26, 2011 - 2:26:59 PM

WWE sources indicate that Luis Ignascio Urive Alvirde, the original Sin Cara, was sent home from Tuesday's SmackDown taping in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. He left the venue before the event's conclusion.

Companu sources state that developmental talent Jorge Arias (a/k/a Hunico) will exclusively portray the Sin Cara character going forward. WWE wants to maintain the character since its been very popular among kids and in merchandise sales.

Many employees expect Alvirde to part ways with the organization, but it is not 100% confirmed.

source: PWInsider.com

I had a feeling the ball was going to be dropped on this.

Update On Shane Helms' DWI Arrest From This Week
By Michael Bluth
Aug 26, 2011 - 12:49:03 PM

To follow up on the news of Shane Helms being arrested this week for DWI, the arrest was related to Helms' terrible motorcycle accident that took place back on May 6th.

According to the police report, a witness told police Helms was riding on a motorcycle with his girlfriend after leaving restaurant in Smithfield, North Carolina around 9:15 PM. He allegedly drove through a stop sign, lost control of the bike and “drove straight through the metal chain link fence.”

A witness who was at the bar where Helms had been right before the accident said that he saw Helms drinking alcohol there.

Helms suffered a broken leg, ankle and nose – and received over 200 stitches. His girlfriend also suffered some pretty bad injuries.

So...his DWI arrest was for his motorcycle accident four months ago instead of a new incident? That makes more sense

Former TNA Knockout Recently Arrested For DUI
By Daniel Pena
Aug 26, 2011 - 1:29:29 PM

Public records indicate that former TNA Wrestling performer Shannon Claire Spruill (a/k/a Daffney) was arrested for Driving under the influence last month in Florida.

The former TNA Knockout was arrested on Tuesday, July 19 at 8:51 p.m. in Hillsborough. She was officially charged with Driving under the influence with property damage. She was released at 1:00 a.m. on $500 bond.

Spruill, who last performed for TNA, parted ways with the organization on March 15 as her contract expired and was not renewed. She subsequently announced that she had filed a workers' compensation claim against TNA for injuries suffered while wrestling for the promotion.

The whole state of Florida must be wet with more than just water. One hell of a party state. I swear I've heard of more wrestlers getting DUI's down there than anywhere else.


Speaking of knockoff characters in wrestling...

Former WCW Star Glacier Discusses Chris Kanyon's Death, TNA Paying Low Wages
By Daniel Pena
Aug 26, 2011 - 1:04:59 PM

World Wrestling Insanity is proud to welcome the new ClubWWI.com audio show that's so cool, it's frozen. James Guttman joins former WCW Star Ray "Glacier" Lloyd to bring you the 52 minute debut of "Breaking The Ice". From backstage work in TNA to acting to his academic achievements in the fitness world, Lloyd has a perspective that's unique to all others. In the first BTI episode, JG and Ray discuss drugs in wrestling, details on WCW contracts, young wrestlers with a sense of entitlement, his run with UWFI, the Japanese mind games they played, memories of Gary Albright, advice for rookie hopefuls, learning from Lou Thesz, the Blood Runs Cold gimmick, wrestlers gaining weight after retirement, Eric Bischoff, Billy Robinson, Team 3D, Marc Mero, Ricky Steamboat, and tons more.

Ray Lloyd and James Guttman kick things off by talking about his new venture - www.Glacier90daychallenge.com. Partnering with Visalus - the same company Hulk Hogan is currently working with - Ray, is bringing his academic and real world experience to helping others get fit. A former health teacher, Lloyd has a history of leading people in a healthier direction. He speaks with James Guttman about keeping positive and fit even though his full time of being on television is over. JG then asks about the negative stigma wrestling has. After all, the business sometimes gets labeled more by those who fall rather than those who succeed outside of it. As Glacier explains to ClubWWI.com members, he and others like DDP and Marc Mero work hard to change the minds of doubters through example.

"We know that this is a stereotype and a stigma. We're here to say, "Hey. We didn't all end up like Mickey Rourke's character in The Wrestler." There a lot of us that are doing good out there and I think as long as we stay the course and keep on doing what we're doing, they'll see because of you being able to allow me to have a forum like this, so people get to hear our story and know there's a different side to wrestling. I think it's starting to make a shift now because you're starting to hear more and more of those stories."

Ray's aware that not everything is roses in wrestling. Through his ClubWWI.com debut show, he talks about others he has come in contact with from his days in UWFI to WCW to TNA and everywhere in between. Not everything ends well, as he explains to James Guttman.

"One of my best friends in the whole wrestling business was Chris Kanyon and Chris had a very tragic end to his life. I wish - trust me, you have no idea - one of the worst things I have to deal with is that we tried. Me, Jim Mitchell, and everyone close him - we all tried. You do all you can do and sometimes it's not enough. And it hurts me to no end because, the hardest part for me of losing Chris was - I was married once before, I'm not married now. But I certainly hope to get married again and have one child before I get too old. But one of the things I took for granted that I'd be able to do is introduce my kid to the guy I had some of the best matches of my career against. Now I can't do that."

His matches with Chris were part of the memorable Blood Runs Cold storyline in World Championship Wrestling. Glacier first debuted in WCW in a huge way. Fans still remember his vignettes and spectacular entrance. But Lloyd keeps it all in perspective. His opportunities were based on talent, but also on timing and the belief of another former ClubWWI.com guest…

"I was so fortunate. I was there for the greatest period of wrestling. I was a solid member of one of the greatest rosters in wrestling history. It was a great time to be in the business and I was strictly a victim of good timing. I was there in the right time at the right place. Somebody, who was luckily president of the company, (Eric) Bischoff believed in me and gave me a run. He said, "Here. Take the ball and run with it." Of course, being up against the N.W.O., which was one of the biggest things to hit wrestling, and hold our own - me, Kanyon, Bryan Clarke, Jim Mitchell, Ernest Miller - that was a huge mountain to climb. We did a heck of a job. We over delivered in everything that was asked of us. But I had a run at the level for five years. Man. I thank God every day. Because I knew guys who were just as deserving as I was and ertainly just as good as I was that never ever saw one day on TV."

Ray's career may be most well known for his high profile run in WCW - which he speaks about throughout the show. But he's worked in other companies too. Most recently, he was with TNA. One thing that struck him was pay. Fans assume young wrestlers make tons of money. Many young wrestlers assume they should be making tons of money too. But, at the end of the day, it's not about being handed anything. Much like his days in WCW, it's about timing and intangibles that you might not control. Above all, he tells ClubWWI.com members, it's not about money…

"Even in TNA, so many guys were on a per-match deal, most people don't realize that. I know from when I was there and worked behind the scenes. It's amazing how little some of these guys make that are on TV."

James says that TNA is a good place for stars to get exposure and learn to work to TV cameras, but not to get rich. He and Ray discuss how more need to see it that way.

"I think one of the things about younger wrestlers now is that they're so impatient. They think (they deserve success) just because they got trained by so-and-so. The level of commitment - and I always promised myself I'd never be that guy that says, "Yeah, back when I was wrestling." (laughs) And no one wants to hear that. Including me… Guys now, they get trained, they're in the business a year, some of them, and they start to become bitter because somehow they haven't gotten this break that they felt they deserve…I was in the business three months shy of nine years when I got my deal with WCW."

The 52 minute debut edition of Ray "Glacier" Lloyd's "Breaking The Ice" on ClubWWI.com doesn't end there. Ray joins Paul Roma's Glorious, Bull Buchanan's Bullpen, Fifi The Maid's "Club For The Gold" and many other star-hosted audios, not to mention hundreds of interviews with top stars available to members the moment they log in!

I always wondered if the whole Glacier/Wrath/Mortis/Blood Runs Cold angle was somehow connected to the fact that the company that owns Mortal Kombat did that MK tv show that aired right after Nitro on TNT?

Or was that just a huge coincidence?

 

[epc11223]

I didn't say anything about Rey Mysterio first in comparison...YOU did. Just cause you THOUGHT I was goign to bring up Rey Mysterio is meaningless. I never got the chance cause you did first.

It doesn't matter if its 2008 or 1980. If you call one a ripoff the other is a ripoff. The Shining is a well known movie and even if it wasn't a ripoff its a ripoff by your logic.

Like I said you're making an excuse for WWE on the same issue that you are questioning TNA on.

The Road Warriors took their NAME, their look, and their characters from various elements of the movie The ROAD WARRIOR and the other Mad Max movies. How anybody can't see that is absurd.

They were a post apocalyptic biker gang right out of the movie.

Are you gonna tell me you've never heard of Mad Max?

Animal admitted thats where it came from. Animal has also admitted the name "Legion of Doom" came from the Challenge of The Superfriends cartoon when the stable that included them, Jake Roberts, and others first formed.

And Stings NOT an exact copy of Ledgers Joker. Wheres the hair? Wheres the suit? His face isn't scarred. Why's he not running around with knives and switchblades?

I see just as move of CESAR ROMERO and JACK NICHOLSON's Jokers in Sting as I do Ledgers. The biggest thing he's taking from Ledger is the facepaint. Sting's acting goofy not sociopathic. If you were the DC fan you claim you'd see that. Instead you've gone with the immediate knee jerk reaction

Sting can take his persona from the movie Joker but like I said Razor took his persona from Scarface and you ignore what I said? Even though you said WWE has NEVER done a non parody character like that when Razor was a serious character?

Stings paying tribute to the guy not ripping him off. Its the same way he was inspired by the Crow. The ONLY difference is the Crow had better execution.

If you're gonna start tearing Sting down then you better start tearing down half the characters in pro wrestling.

A lot of elements of Ledgers Joker was inspired by OTHER works. The Joker himself was copied right off a silent movie. Like i said what your complaining about is as old as time itself so you got a lot o f catching up to do.

If you're gonna rip on Sting be fair and rip on the execution not the inspiration.

BESIDES the facepaint what is Joker Sting doing that every other version of the Joker DIDN'T do? His act is far more in the vein of silly than disturbing like Ledgers Joker was. That was what Romero did as The Joker.

Look at Stings suit in this picture. He only wore it once. How can you say that's a ripoff of Ledger when he LOOKS more like Ceasar Romero?

Does he look more like Romero there or Ledger?

This idea that he's "cheaply disrespecting Heath" stuff is nonsense. Or that he's portraying "Heath's Joker." He might not be doing it very well but its clear he's taking elements from ALL Jokers. Its not a straight rehash of Ledger. If Sting was doing that he wouldn't have cut his hair. Its shorter now than its been in years...which is more like the classic Joker than the Ledger Joker. And Sting would be playing it far more twisted. He's not.

The biggest grab from Ledger is the facepaint...with the makeup mimicking scars and looking smudged on.

A scar grin? That was already done in one if not TWO Crow movies. I'm pretty sure that in Crow Salvation the black lipstick smile was replaced with...you guessed it...scars.

you sure like grasping at straws. first off this is a ridiculous conversation and i am not the one who originally brought up the wwe. in my original post i never said anything about wwe because i was referencing the captain america shield that tna was using. it's also pretty obvious that sting is using joker for his persona. whether it's nicholson or ledger is pretty irrelevant. the look may not be totally ledger, but he's acting a lot like ledger's joker. as for stings crow persona, i didn't really care for that character either, but at least it was believable and made sense and fit the story line. what i don't understand is why you brought up wwe to begin with. i was using rey as an example of an homage rather than character copy. with the road warriors, i dont know too much about mad maxx and at the time when i liked razor ramon, i didn't know too much about scarface. i was about 12 at the time and scarface was pretty much a non issue so it felt new. with stings joker, tna is targeting a mature audience who aren't kids. the range if anywhere between 15-35 so the joker bit is still fresh in people's minds which comes off as a rip off.