The Wrestling Thread Lured You In And Brought You Down! - Part 243

[TX85]

Cool phone cover

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

2K18 should have a great roster this year.

 

[Samurai_Adam]

I have stopped watching 205 Live. I love some of the guys on it, but the show is pretty terrible imo. I feel like they should just like the CW guys work all three shows. Raw, SD and NXT.

I'd actually prefer it if they stayed on 205 exclusively. The cruiserweights put on some good matches, but their storylines just bore me.

 

[Wheels]

205 Live is going to get canned. I'm not going to get on WWE too much for this, because this time I feel like they tired, but it's just not working.

 

[Mani-Man]

205 biggest problem is simply the timeslot.
You cant expect the people to sit around after 2 great hours of smackdown...that doesnt work.
People are tired after smackdown.

205 and the cruiserweights have the potential to be a good little show that people can enjoy for what it is...but not when you do it live after smackdown.

Imo, they should do taped shows like NXT, they should let them loose fully on the mic and in the ring too...they have the talent but often feel a bit like they have to hold back.

Im torn on if i would like to see the cruiserweights on the "Main shows", on one hand it would make them seem more "important" if you dont cut them off from the rest(with the purple ropes and all that) and treat them as the full main part of the show too...on the other hand you can have them be unique.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

205 Live is going to get canned. I'm not going to get on WWE too much for this, because this time I feel like they tired, but it's just not working.

Nah, I don't count this as trying. They should have filmed it like the CWC and NXT. That they decided to film it the way they have has given it no heat and no consequence.

 

[Wheels]

Nah, I don't count this as trying. They should have filmed it like the CWC and NXT. That they decided to film it the way they have has given it no heat and no consequence.

I do simply because this is the most investment WWE has ever put into this type of division. This Towzawa/Kendrick angle is strong, no one gives a damn though. When they have good matches on RAW no one gives a damn. Why should WWE have automatically known this wouldn't get over outside of Full Sail? There's an argument to be made that a lot of guys outside the division on RAW, work the same style, but the same could be said of wrestlers in NXT. To me outside of the taping time slot I do think they are doing a solid job all things considered. Of course most people will reject that because it's not going after the WWE or the fans either. It's just not working. This type of division hasn't been hot in years for one reason or another.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The shows beating 205 Live include replays of the CWC and older episodes of Table for 3 and Ride Along as well as Halloween Havoc 1998

The lack of success of 205 Live could spell hesitation on the WWE's part for a WWE UK Brand, but we'll see.

 

[Wheels]

Well, if they are planning on doing the UK brand tapings in the U,S. then they had better kill it. Just sign a streaming deal with Progress and ICW, and let them worry about selling tickets, while you have some products on your Network to get fans of European wrestling. You can have WWE guys go work the shows from time to time as well.

 

[Dr. Evil]

As for people bashing Randy Orton for bashing the Indies? Who cares? Orton probably said all of that stuff due to the voices in his head.

If Progress and ICW sign a streaming service on WWE Network, I can see the WWE UK Championship defended on there. If not, rebrand the WWE UK Championship and make it a permanent secondary title on NXT, especially if NXT adds Crazzy Steve, Lio Rush, Adam Cole, reDRagon and Donovan Dijak.

Speaking of which there is news on Crazzy Steve: he has not officially signed with WWE yet because his medical paperwork has yet to be examined.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I do simply because this is the most investment WWE has ever put into this type of division. This Towzawa/Kendrick angle is strong, no one gives a damn though. When they have good matches on RAW no one gives a damn. Why should WWE have automatically known this wouldn't get over outside of Full Sail? There's an argument to be made that a lot of guys outside the division on RAW, work the same style, but the same could be said of wrestlers in NXT. To me outside of the taping time slot I do think they are doing a solid job all things considered. Of course most people will reject that because it's not going after the WWE or the fans either. It's just not working. This type of division hasn't been hot in years for one reason or another.

They film it post SD. So not only do they not have the RAW crowd that sees the other matches, it done when a lot of people have already left. How do they expect the crowd to get invested? Especially with programs that air other places.

All that being said, there was no need for a CW division. These guys aren't smaller then other guys working with the normal roster.

 

[Dr. Evil]

They film it post SD. So not only do they not have the RAW crowd that sees the other matches, it done when a lot of people have already left. How do they expect the crowd to get invested? Especially with programs that air other places.

All that being said, there was no need for a CW division. These guys aren't smaller then other guys working with the normal roster.

The WWE tries to convince that crowd to stay by announcing main event dark matches like Nakamura vs. Ziggler.

 

[Wheels]

They film it post SD. So not only do they not have the RAW crowd that sees the other matches, it done when a lot of people have already left. How do they expect the crowd to get invested? Especially with programs that air other places.

All that being said, there was no need for a CW division. These guys aren't smaller then other guys working with the normal roster.

Can't argue with that. I'll say I think I and many others were misguided in thinking this could work. I'm never going to pine for another CW division again, unless the weight limits and style of wrestling works in the promotion, and each division has the opportunity to main event a show like in UFC.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Can't argue with that. I'll say I think I and many others were misguided in thinking this could work. I'm never going to pine for another CW division again, unless the weight limits and style of wrestling works in the promotion, and each division has the opportunity to main event a show like in UFC.

I think you are right in general. I am thinking it could have worked, but the approach would have had to be rather special to go over with the causal fans. This situation is a lot like how hot the tag division can be in NXT.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So if 205 Live goes, what happens to the CW Championship?

 

[Wheels]

So if 205 Live goes, what happens to the CW Championship?

It dies.

 

[Pink Ranger]

So if 205 Live goes, what happens to the CW Championship?

Merged with the Raw Women's title.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The release of the Cruiserweights though would be good for Indy Wrestling.

 

[Wheels]

The release of the Cruiserweights though would be good for Indy Wrestling.

Not all would get released, but it would be an influx of talent.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Watching Naomi as a Funkadactyl on the WWE Network got me to thinking:

"Cameron is the Marty Janetty of the Funkadactyls."

Especially with how Naomi has rapidly risen in the WWE since the Brand Split. She now has a gimmick that has worked for her. When she was in the hunt for the title back in February and she was going to face Alexa for the Smackdown Women's Championship at Elimination Chamber, I didn't think they would give Naomi the win due to past history with Naomi in title matches, as whenever she was in the hunt, she would always fall short. Lo and behold, they give her the title.

She's been up on the main roster since 2010, when NXT was a game show.

Alicia Fox and Natalya are former Divas Champions, but that was back when the division sucked. I don't expect either of them to get another title reign ever again.

Tamina is now the longest tenured woman in the WWE without a championship reign to her name.

 

[Wheels]

I think Nattie might be a transitional champion from Naomi to Charlotte.

 

[Dr. Evil]

To quote Gold Ole Jr.....Good god almighty....

From the Wiki page of the Fabulous Moolah:

However, Wendi Richter stated that Ellison did not actually train the wrestlers at her wrestling school. Instead, Richter stated that Ellison accepted payment of the training fee (which at the time of Richter's training was five hundred dollars) and had other female wrestlers within her camp (including Leilani Kai, Judy Martin, Winona Littleheart, and Joyce Grable) train the new recruits, and that these women did not get paid for their additional work as trainers. Richter also stated that Ellison required all women that received training at her camp to each sign a contract that allowed Ellison to function as their booker and receive twenty five percent of their booking fee. Trainees were also required to rent duplex apartments on Ellison's property and they were responsible for paying her for rent and utilities. The training lasted six months and took place up to five hours per day inside a wrestling ring in a barn that lacked heating and air conditioning or fans. Debbie Johnson, another former trainee of Ellison's, stated that she was required to give Ellison thirty percent of her booking fee, and her paycheck was further reduced as Ellison deducted travel expenses, food, rent, and utilities before paying her. As a result, Johnson worked for Ellison for two years before she received any money. Johnson stated that Ellison would refuse to book certain women in her training camp if they angered her, and that Ellison monitored her and refused to let her leave the physical constraints of the training camp unless she was accompanied by someone else.

Over the years, various female wrestlers have come forward with stories accusing Ellison of being a pimp that often provided various wrestling promoters with unsuspecting female wrestlers that would be used as sex objects. One of the most notorious accusations is from the family of Sweet Georgia Brown (Susie Mae McCoy). McCoy, who was trained and booked by Ellison and her then-husband Buddy Lee, told her daughter that she was often raped, given drugs, and made an addict in an intentional attempt by Ellison and Lee to control her. Ida Martinez, who wrestled during the 1960s, also recalls that many of the regional promoters "demanded personal services" before they would pay the female wrestlers. In a 2002 interview, Luna Vachon claimed that when she was sixteen years old and training at Ellison's camp, Ellison sent her out of state to be photographed by an older man. Although she remained clothed during the photo shoot, Vachon stated she felt taken advantage of by Ellison and the older man. Vachon also stated that her aunt, Vivian Vachon, witnessed Ellison abusing alcohol and having sex with her female trainees. Sandy Parker, a lesbian former pupil of Ellison's, also claims that Ellison forbade her from going to any gay bars and tried to press her to date men. Parker says this enranged her, because "(Moolah) was two faced because she had her own little dalliances that we all knew about."

As well as allegedly exploiting female wrestlers sexually, Ellison has been accused of using her financial influence to control the women's wrestling scene and ensure that other women did not gain greater recognition. In addition to being a key participant in the original screwjob on Wendi Richter, Ellison used her influence to take over the spot originally held by her protégé Mad Maxine on the animated series Hulk Hogan's Rock 'n' Wrestling. Maxine was about to receive a big push by Vince McMahon but left the WWF shortly afterwards, as Ellison was unwilling to provide her with additional bookings. Numerous other former trainees defected from Ellison after growing tired of sharing their paychecks with Ellison. Women wrestlers including Vivian and Luna Vachon, Ann Casey, and Darling Dagmar moved into other regions where Ellison had less control and negotiated their own payouts with promoters.

Both Judy Martin and Leilani Kai told in later interviews that Moolah would collect the women wrestler's pay from promoters, and after taking out her own pay, would only give the girls half of the money they were owed (keeping half of their pay for herself, plus her own pay) and telling them that was all the promoter gave her to give them. Martin stated that shortly before Ellison left the WWF in 1988 (shortly after falling out with Martin and Kai due to Ellison no longer receiving their booking fees), she sabotaged the duo while they were touring Japan. Martin stated that Ellison contacted Japanese promoters and informed them that the Jumping Bomb Angels were supposed to drop the WWF Women's Tag Team Championship to The Glamour Girls before Martin and Kai returned to the United States. This was contrary to the booking decision made by Pat Patterson before the Japanese tour began. Unable to reach Patterson by telephone, Kai and Martin agreed to win the titles from the Angels since Ellison had already misinformed the Japanese promoters. Martin stated that upon returning to the United States, Patterson was angry with them and confirmed that nobody within the WWF made the decision for the title change and that due to her long-standing relationship with the company, the WWF refused to listen to their explanation of Ellison's deceit. Shortly thereafter, the WWF phased out the WWF Women's Tag Team Championship. In a later shoot interview, Leilani Kai told that had things gone as the WWF originally planned, The Glamour Girls would have had a title match against the Jumping Bomb Angels at Wrestlemania IV and that Ellison's actions had cost the four girls what would have been ultimately their biggest ever payday.

Women that chose to continue allowing Ellison to work as their booker were kept under tight control. Velvet McIntyre was forced to compete against Ellison (whom McIntyre stated she didn't care for) at WrestleMania 2 instead of competing during an all-women tour of Kuwait with a group of Ellison's other female wrestlers. Their Wrestlemania 2 match lasted less than two minutes with the referee ignoring McIntyre's leg being on the ropes while she was being pinned. Women that did not agree to Ellison's booking fees faced limited options. Rhonda Sing stated that Ellison contacted her and offered to let her wrestle Richter in a couple of pay-per-view matches for the WWF in 1985, but demanded she receive half of Sing's pay check; a stipulation Sing was unwilling to accept. Penny Banner stated that her retirement was due in large part to Ellison refusing to allow any of her female wrestlers to accept bookings against Banner, which severely limited the number of bookings that Banner was offered by promoters

Yeah, the WWE made the right call not naming the Women's Tournament after her.

 

[Warhammer]

Wow, that is disappointing to see that Moolah was a POS.

I think Nattie might be a transitional champion from Naomi to Charlotte.

At this point, I'd take it. Nattie has deserved her title run for far too long. One month and a lengthy feud with Charlotte is better than nothing.

I just hope that Becky gets the title at Mania because damn. She's been in booking hell since dropping the title.

 

[TheFuture]

The truth is that Nattie and Charlotte would be the better title feud.

That's nothing against Naomi, I just don't think she's found her adversary yet. Based purely on gimmicks and what each woman's strengths are, a feud with a heel Banks or face Charlotte (with Naomi as heel) could be the makings of her.

 

[TheFuture]

And yeah, Moolah....wow.