The Wrestling Thread Says, "Wait Just A Second There, Playa!"

[Hunter Rider]

^ But all that is pretty much my point.

The guy gets himself over with his talent, and earning his spot. THEN he can get his wins.

Winning and "going over" doesn't get the guy over. The guy gets himself over. Then he can "go over" as reward for getting himself over. Jericho, Angle, and Benoit all solidified themselves before they "went over". It wasn't going over The Rock, or Austin, or Triple H that made them big. They made themselves big, and then they got the win that they had earned for themselves.

No they didn't, Benoit and Jericho got over through winning matches as well as their talent, and then when the time came for Benoit he got put over in the main event to cement him, Jericho never did and that's why his first title run was a dud. Then to counter your argument again, whether you liked him as a top guy or not Christian was mega over and he did it through a mix of talent and his wins over Jericho, his merch was high selling and MSG lifted the roof for him, his thanks? jobbed out and released.

One goes hand in hand with the other, Santino is over but that doesn't make him a top guy, you need wins to be a top guy.

 

[Wheels]

Exactly Hunter. Guys like Austin, Rock, and Hogan would have never been as big as they were without being booked well. You think Hogan would be the biggest star ever if he wasn't booked like a star?

 

[Hotwire]

hey guys look here.

A friends showed me this. He swore there was a bright green car in the picture somewhere but, I could never find it. Must be one of those "Where's Waldo" type pics.

 

[Kaleb]

A friends showed me this. He swore there was a bright green car in the picture somewhere but, I could never find it. Must be one of those "Where's Waldo" type pics.

yeah its probably one of those images where you supposed to stare for a long time and a car suddenly appears.

 

[The Batman]

Exactly Hunter. Guys like Austin, Rock, and Hogan would have never been as big as they were without being booked well. You think Hogan would be the biggest star ever if he wasn't booked like a star?

To add to that, Undertaker's entire career is largely based off the fact that he's beaten or looked immensely strong against top guys across 4 different generations.

You think Taker would've been over just by being dark and gothic? Nope. Part of the reason he got over is because in addition to a cool gimmick, WWE backed that gimmick up by making Taker completely unbeatable.

 

[Kaleb]

WWE Once In A Lifetime: Rock vs. Cena 3/25/12 - Full Show



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpof2n_wwe-once-in-a-lifetime-rock-vs-cena-3-25-12-full-show_sport



Cena is just so classy, hard to hate on him.

 

[Van Petrol]

Me thinks they should get Wade Barrett on commentary while he's recovering from his injury, like what was done with Punk and Edge in the past. It may help in getting him over too, plus he was pretty awesome when he was on commentary back in FCW.

 

[Van Petrol]

If I'm being honest, I think it's a bit of both. In general, I love the idea of a never-ending heel world title reign. In a current environment of several TV shows a week where every storyline in the wrestling playbook is used and re-used and re-used at such a heightened pace, this is one classic story that WWE hasn't done so much with lately. I think since on Raw you have more of the company's top stars competing for focus, Smackdown is the best place to try a story like this, where it would work the best and where the champion fulfilling the role could flourish the most.

But where my bias comes in is that, while in theory you could have any top heel fulfil this role, I'd personally rather it be Daniel Bryan than, say, Alberto Del Rio or Wade Barrett. That's partly because, yes, he's my favourite wrestler. But it's also because I know he can do this well: his 15-month reign as ROH World Champion is one of the best-booked title reigns I've ever seen from any company.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and tend to agree with it. Though I also think Barrett could do it well too. At one point the Nexus were probably the most hated and heated entity in the WWE and Wade was basically the leader and spokesperson of that group. They got shafted towards the end of it though and were booked poorly, but that stint at least showed me that Wade has the potential to make it and potentially develop into one of the top heels in the business.

I've said it before, but if he's booked properly, I could see him being a heel in the vein of HHH's first title/heel run, and/or similar to what Booby Roode is doing over in TNA right now.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

hey guys look here.

Nice wheels.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think Wade Barrett was getting close to regaining that kind of momentum. So it's a shame he got that terribly-timed injury.

 

[Van Petrol]

^ I agree. I hope he comes back and regains it too. By all accounts the MitB was scrapped from Mania this year, as Wade was the one planned to win it. So I guess it at least possibly shows that the company see potential in him too, if they're wiling to move the MitB around to accomodate him.

 

[Metallo]

^ But all that is pretty much my point.

The guy gets himself over with his talent, and earning his spot. THEN he can get his wins.

Winning and "going over" doesn't get the guy over. The guy gets himself over. Then he can "go over" as reward for getting himself over. Jericho, Angle, and Benoit all solidified themselves before they "went over". It wasn't going over The Rock, or Austin, or Triple H that made them big. They made themselves big, and then they got the win that they had earned for themselves.

Winning AND talent gets the guy over. Jericho and Benoit and Angle ALL won matches at the same time they began to build popularity.

Talent alone doesn't always get someone over. Some of those people used to be called JOBBERS. Some were more talented than main event guys...but for whatever reason the jobbers never got that push.

Its a combination of talent and booking. You earn what you get too.

Triple H got big through his association with Michaels and the Cliq as well as his talent as well as his winning. How can you say what got him over when you didn't even see the early part of his career? By the time you started watching he was already over in the midcard.

By the time you even saw Benoit and Jericho they'd been around for ten to fifteen years.

If it was just about the talent to earn someone a shot at the top Triple H, Austin, Benoit, and Guerrero would have stayed in WCW and been stars.

They either got booked weakly or weren't taken seriously. Thus they never made it to the next level.

Guerrero and Benoit were never going to get what they deserved in WCW despite winning the people over with their talent.

Undertaker was booked strong as soon as he walked into WWF. Triple H and Austin were both given wins as they came in to establish them. I talked about jobbers earlier but you basically missed the era of the traditional jobber. Thats what they used to establish new talent they wanted to push immediately.

Somebody who loses for their entire career is always going to be under a glass ceiling.

 

[Hunter Rider]

When is the next episode of FCW on?

 

[Metallo]

No they didn't, Benoit and Jericho got over through winning matches as well as their talent, and then when the time came for Benoit he got put over in the main event to cement him, Jericho never did and that's why his first title run was a dud. Then to counter your argument again, whether you liked him as a top guy or not Christian was mega over and he did it through a mix of talent and his wins over Jericho, his merch was high selling and MSG lifted the roof for him, his thanks? jobbed out and released.

One goes hand in hand with the other, Santino is over but that doesn't make him a top guy, you need wins to be a top guy.

Jericho is a prime example of the point many of us are trying to make.

Right now Jericho is as talented as anybody in the business. Nobody can deny the fact that he's over. But he's never reached the absolute peak of his potential. Why? Because he's been booked like a loser so much.

The losses don't really HURT him at this point but they also don't HELP him ascend to a higher level of popularity

Who knows how being Triple H's whipping boy for the last ten years held him back. He wouldn't be the face of the company but he could have been closer to Triple H's level. He's just as good on the mic and in the ring and unlike Triple he's gotten better with age in the ring not worse.

When Jericho feuded with Michaels in 08 Jericho HAD to pick up some wins in the end. Beating Michaels in a ladder match of all matches was a HUGE deal as far as making him look good. Its no coincidence that THAT particular feud is considered to be one of the best of Jericho's career. It was competitive not once sided.

Triple H said it himself he's HAD to win (to stay relevant) Triple H is talented but not talented enough to the point that wins and losses are always meaningless. He knows they matter otherwise he wouldn't be so obsessed with it. The only guy more obsessed with looking strong and winning is Hogan.

 

[NDX]

When is the next episode of FCW on?

Dunno, but hope someone posts it when it's online.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the last remaining slot on Team Teddy at Wrestlemania could be taken up by The Miz? They've been running this, "Miz will do anything to get on the Mania card" story for ages now, so it could dovetail in nicely. It could either be the beginning of a face turn, or Miz could screw his team over to ensure victory for Johnny Ace, reinvigorating his heel persona.

 

[bullets]

hey guys look here.

Spoiler

WOWZERS!

Randy Orton believes his upcoming match against Kane at WrestleMania XXVIII is a bigger deal than the World Heavyweight Championship bout between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus.
"I think there might be a little more people out there who want to see Kane-Orton as opposed Sheamus-Daniel Bryan," Orton stated Friday morning on the Big Poppa In The Morning radio program promoting WrestleMania XXVIII.

Did this guy learn nothing from Triple H? You bury people behind their back into Vince's ear not on radio interviews...



Also to add to what most of you have already said. " To be the man , you gotta beat the man". Wrestlers can gain popularity and get support but for them to truly be over they need wins to solidify them as legitimate.

 

[louiebling$]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the last remaining slot on Team Teddy at Wrestlemania could be taken up by The Miz? They've been running this, "Miz will do anything to get on the Mania card" story for ages now, so it could dovetail in nicely. It could either be the beginning of a face turn, or Miz could screw his team over to ensure victory for Johnny Ace, reinvigorating his heel persona.

Now that would definitly be the best direction to take the Miz....I've always thought man....Miz could really get over as a Face

 

[LOBO3315a]

Wrestlers can gain popularity and get support but for them to truly be over they need wins to solidify them as legitimate.

Yeah, if Vince doesn't let them win, the fans will get bored with them.

 

[bullets]

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the last remaining slot on Team Teddy at Wrestlemania could be taken up by The Miz? They've been running this, "Miz will do anything to get on the Mania card" story for ages now, so it could dovetail in nicely. It could either be the beginning of a face turn, or Miz could screw his team over to ensure victory for Johnny Ace, reinvigorating his heel persona.

That's not a bad idea. The only other option for Miz is to call out the Rock and get squashed ( I think). I assume Matt Bloom will be the last guy on Team Laurenitis . The other possibility for Team Long is Funkasaurus Brodus Clay.

 

[Slushy]

Randy Orton believes his upcoming match against Kane at WrestleMania XXVIII is a bigger deal than the World Heavyweight Championship bout between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus.

Sorry, I had to.

Did this guy learn nothing from Triple H? You bury people behind their back into Vince's ear not on radio interviews...

Orton's just mad he couldn't be in the title match this year.

Punk is over and i haven't seen HHH put him over like he did for Cena or Batista. Punk deserves to be put over by HHH.

Agreed. It still upsets me that Punk was the biggest thing going last year and was upstaged so Hunter could continue his boring ass feud with Nash. Neither of which did the job for Mr. Straight Edge. Hopefully at next year's Wrestlemania if Austin decides to keep his ball at home.


Re: Winning

Winning is important, but its not the end all, be all. Look at Santino.

To quote Promixo from the movie Gladiator:

I was not the best because I killed quickly. I was the best because the crowd loved me. Win the crowd and you will win your freedom.

You can be funny. You can be intense. Or you can be both to get over.

 

[Wheels]

When is the next episode of FCW on?

On Sunday, but they hit the net on Mondays.

 

[The Sage]

To add to that, Undertaker's entire career is largely based off the fact that he's beaten or looked immensely strong against top guys across 4 different generations.

You think Taker would've been over just by being dark and gothic? Nope. Part of the reason he got over is because in addition to a cool gimmick, WWE backed that gimmick up by making Taker completely unbeatable.

The Undertaker's is the perfect example of getting yourself over and solid booking. Both are what made him the icon that he is. That's why the Streak is such a big deal.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Sheamus seems like the third wheel in his program with Daniel Bryan, where Daniel Bryan is the more interesting and entertaining character. But that match is still more interesting than the Kane/Orton "we got two stars we need to put on the card but we don't have a good idea for them, so let's put them in a half-assed program with each other" match.

 

[The Sage]

Yeah, I get what you're saying and tend to agree with it. Though I also think Barrett could do it well too. At one point the Nexus were probably the most hated and heated entity in the WWE and Wade was basically the leader and spokesperson of that group. They got shafted towards the end of it though and were booked poorly, but that stint at least showed me that Wade has the potential to make it and potentially develop into one of the top heels in the business.

I've said it before, but if he's booked properly, I could see him being a heel in the vein of HHH's first title/heel run, and/or similar to what Booby Roode is doing over in TNA right now.

That would be interesting. Personally, I don't have a problem with Barrett except for the fact that in the ring he doesn't stand out me. When he's on the mic, he's good. I think getting a new finisher would go a long way in helping him. That Wasteland slam just isn't cutting it. He should do the Angle Slam. Is Orton still using it?

Has anyone else considered the possibility that the last remaining slot on Team Teddy at Wrestlemania could be taken up by The Miz? They've been running this, "Miz will do anything to get on the Mania card" story for ages now, so it could dovetail in nicely. It could either be the beginning of a face turn, or Miz could screw his team over to ensure victory for Johnny Ace, reinvigorating his heel persona.

Wow, I never thought about that. I do wonder if turning Miz heel is a good idea though.

Re: Winning

Winning is important, but its not the end all, be all. Look at Santino.

To quote Promixo from the movie Gladiator:

You can be funny. You can be intense. Or you can be both to get over.

Yeah but Santino isn't someone anyone really takes seriously.

Now, a better example would be Mick Foley. He took a lot of losses. But Foley had his fair share of wins. Rock put him over a couple of times. He beat the Undertaker twice I think. But Foley was never THE MAN.

Sheamus seems like the third wheel in his program with Daniel Bryan, where Daniel Bryan is the more interesting and entertaining character. But that match is still more interesting than the Kane/Orton "we got two stars we need to put on the card but we don't have a good idea for them, so let's put them in a half-assed program with each other" match.

Kinda reminds me of Angle/Kane from Wrestlemania 18, even though that turned out to be a solid match.