The Wrestling Thread Says, "Wait Just A Second There, Playa!"

[Metallo]

He doesn't need to do it at all. He went out in the right moment and against the right opponent.

I agree. Thats one thing that gives me pause. Austin coming back takes away a little bit from Rock vs Austin III and a lot of its underlying meaning and emotion.

Its the way most wrestlers should want to go out even if they are forced to

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

I love the fact that we have so many different options out there, nobody really knows what is going to happen at the end of WM, it has that old school anything could happen feel (like a WWE PPV should have).

 

[Metallo]

You're right. Looking at the overall card I haven't been this impressed with a Wrestlemania since WM20. Like you said this truly feels like a big event worth getting...instead of a glorified Raw episode.

 

[spidey-dude]

I read everything you said. You said the theatrics fundamentally WERE the core character then you said they were part of the core character and when I pointed out to you long runs where he HAD no powers and HAD no theatrics you tried everything you could to argue otherwise.

The character has evolved over the years to a point there is more beneath the theatricality. He's never been as complex as SOME characters but there is something there.

I point out instances where the man blended with the character and you ignore them.

I didnt ignore them I said those iterations were my favourite version! as it involved more of the actual man - once again I never said they were the core but a key part of the core, and once again I find myself saying go back and read what I said!

 

[spidey-dude]

I love the fact that we have so many different options out there, nobody really knows what is going to happen at the end of WM, it has that old school anything could happen feel (like a WWE PPV should have).

yeah the only match I fee certain on is the main event - think Sheamus will go over Bryan unfortunately

 

[Metallo]

I didnt ignore them I said those iterations were my favourite version! as it involved more of the actual man - once again I never said they were the core but a key part of the core, and once again I find myself saying go back and read what I said!

You ignored the points I was trying too make about those iterations and how they related to the overall character. You brushed off what I said saying I didn't know the difference between the man and the character when I was pointing out the worked shoot/ blended kayfabe aspect of the segments I used as examples.

 

[spidey-dude]

You ignored the points I was trying too make about those iterations and how they related to the overall character. You brushed off what I said saying I didn't know the difference between the man and the character when I was pointing out the worked shoot/ blended kayfabe aspect of the segments I used as examples.

no I didnt I said they were different iterations, sorry if I wasnt clearer but I was talking about the current and traditional version of the character, and I did point that out several times - I said early on that biker taker was fundamentally derived from the man, and that is why it was the only version of taker I actually liked, and I admit the fundamental aspects of those iterations werent the theatrics, but every other one the theatrics play a key defining role in who the character is - now I respect the hell out of Mark Calloway and what he has done for the business but (other than biker Taker) have never got into him at all

 

[Metallo]

no I didnt I said they were different iterations, sorry if I wasnt clearer but I was talking about the current and traditional version of the character, and I did point that out several times - I said early on that biker taker was fundamentally derived from the man, and that is why it was the only version of taker I actually liked, and I admit the fundamental aspects of those iterations werent the theatrics, but every other one the theatrics play a key defining role in who the character is - now I respect the hell out of Mark Calloway and what he has done for the business but (other than biker Taker) have never got into him at all

Except the problem is the Undertaker we see right now, the current deadman, is an evolution that includes elements and characteristics of all past incarnations--including the Biker Undertaker.

The Undertaker we see right now is also more than just the theatrics underneath it all.

 

[spidey-dude]

Except the problem is the Undertaker we see right now, the current deadman, is an evolution that includes elements and characteristics of all past incarnations--including the Biker Undertaker.

The Undertaker we see right now is also more than just the theatrics underneath it all.

mate for the billionth time I agree! My point was that the theatrics are a core part of his character, never that they were the only aspect of him

 

[Nightmare]

Is that security in the background?

I'd really like to know what was discussed considering how Punk feels.

Reminds me of the photo of Bret and HHH talking at Wrestlemania 26. You never thought it would happen.

Wow, do you know where to find that by any chance?

 

[bullets]

I think it's great to see legends return on special occasions but not wrestler past their primes like Hogan and Flair. I think Stone Cold went out the right way but it wouldn't ruin it for me if he were to come back for one or two matches.

Is that security in the background?

I'd really like to know what was discussed considering how Punk feels.

Reminds me of the photo of Bret and HHH talking at Wrestlemania 26. You never thought it would happen.

I find those photos fascinating. There's the surreal element but you can only imagine what was said. I'm sure they've interacted before but you just never see it.

BTW, would anyone else love to see Cena vs. Punk at Wrestlemania 29 for the WWE Title? I've heard people say they should save that match until Wrestlemania 30/XXX but I think it would be awesome headliner for any 'Mania.

It depends on what everyone has on their plate for next year. I'm still hoping for a Stone Cold vs Punk and Cena vs Undertaker. If not Punk vs Cena is a great choice.



*****
Kevin Nash Says Triple H Ending Undertaker's Streak Is Bad For Business

Submitted by Michael Bluth on March 29, 2012 - 10:15am

During a recent interview with the UK Sun, former WWE & TNA star Kevin Nash spoke in-depth about Sunday's WrestleMania 28 pay-per-view. Nash, who has wrestled both men and is a longtime student of the business, says Triple H ending the streak is bad for business - and the Undertaker should retire with the streak in tact:
"End of an Era…I've been thinking about the "speaking in code" that Shawn Michaels alluded to last week…If the WWE did have HHH end the Streak, what's the bragging point since it took him three tries? There's no bragging point, and it doesn't do anything for business…It wouldn't be good for business at all. It'd be like, yeah HHH ended it, but it took him three tries...Big deal. How does that impact the business to the good side?
"Most people would automatically point to the fact that he's married to Stephanie, and didn't do it because he deserved it…They could see through the facade WWE [would] have to build for it. I could already hear the bull**** chants from the more seasoned fans if they did that.
"In all honesty, at this point in time, the only one that deserves to end the Streak, is Taker himself by hanging it up when he chooses…In other words, he retires undefeated at Mania."



*******

 

[Metallo]

mate for the billionth time I agree! My point was that the theatrics are a core part of his character, never that they were the only aspect of him

My point, that youve debated, was that the theatrics are very important but they aren't whats at the core. They were part of a package that sold his talent and his respected stature. They DID strip the theatrics away and we got the Biker Undertaker. A common thread among almost EVERY version of The Undertaker is his desire to compete at a high level and his attitudes about respect and a code. Thats something the character and the man share.

At this point the Undertaker we see right now has evolved into something thats more than just the Undertaker we saw 22 years ago. Even though hes the deadman again we STILL see a little bit of the crossover between the man and the character from time to time. That wasn't exlcusive to the biker we just saw more of it there because of the nature of the gimmick.

 

[Metallo]

Wow, do you know where to find that by any chance?

Ask and ye shall receive

Its a little disturbing if you ask me. The Randy Orton fashion sense is all the rage I guess

 

[Metallo]

I think it's great to see legends return on special occasions but not wrestler past their primes like Hogan and Flair. I think Stone Cold went out the right way but it wouldn't ruin it for me if he were to come back for one or two matches.

Ditto. If they can still go its not so bad but if its a old broken down shell of a man coming back its just sad to see and taints the legacy some.

I find those photos fascinating. There's the surreal element but you can only imagine what was said. I'm sure they've interacted before but you just never see it.

Well you know there had to be some tension there. At least Bret respected Shawn on a professional level and they were once friends. I never got the sense he had nearly as much respect for Triple H or that they were ever friends of any kind. Triple H never REALLY seemed like he could be just one of the guys. There was always a disconnect because of the way he played the game...so to speak.

Triple H has always been candid on his thoughts on the screwjob.

It depends on what everyone has on their plate for next year. I'm still hoping for a Stone Cold vs Punk and Cena vs Undertaker. If not Punk vs Cena is a great choice.

I'd enjoy all three of those if handled right. Cenas really the only full time guy in his prime right now that looks like a legit challenge to the streak. Punk vs Austin writes itself with that clash of attitudes.

*****
Kevin Nash Says Triple H Ending Undertaker's Streak Is Bad For Business

Submitted by Michael Bluth on March 29, 2012 - 10:15am
During a recent interview with the UK Sun, former WWE & TNA star Kevin Nash spoke in-depth about Sunday's WrestleMania 28 pay-per-view. Nash, who has wrestled both men and is a longtime student of the business, says Triple H endin[COLOR=red !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=red !important][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]g the streak is bad for business - and the Undertaker should retire with the streak in tact:
"End of an Era…I've been thinking about the "speaking in code" that Shawn Michaels alluded to last week…If the WWE did have HHH end the Streak, what's the bragging point since it took him three tries? There's no bragging point, and it doesn't do anything for business…It wouldn't be good for business at all. It'd be like, yeah HHH ended it, but it took him three tries...Big deal. How does that impact the business to the good side?
"Most people would automatically point to the fact that he's married to Stephanie, and didn't do it because he deserved it…They could see through the facade WWE [would] have to build for it. I could already hear the bull**** chants from the more seasoned fans if they did that.
"In all honesty, at this point in time, the only one that deserves to end the Streak, is Taker himself by hanging it up when he chooses…In other words, he retires undefeated at Mania."



*******

He makes some good points. Its certainly bad for business if Triple H does it. It doesn't serve any kind of purpose beyond seeing the internet explode

 

[bullets]

edit

 

[Dr. Evil]

*****
Kevin Nash Says Triple H Ending Undertaker's Streak Is Bad For Business

Submitted by Michael Bluth on March 29, 2012 - 10:15am

During a recent interview with the UK Sun, former WWE & TNA star Kevin Nash spoke in-depth about Sunday's WrestleMania 28 pay-per-view. Nash, who has wrestled both men and is a longtime student of the business, says Triple H ending the streak is bad for business - and the Undertaker should retire with the streak in tact:
"End of an Era…I've been thinking about the "speaking in code" that Shawn Michaels alluded to last week…If the WWE did have HHH end the Streak, what's the bragging point since it took him three tries? There's no bragging point, and it doesn't do anything for business…It wouldn't be good for business at all. It'd be like, yeah HHH ended it, but it took him three tries...Big deal. How does that impact the business to the good side?
"Most people would automatically point to the fact that he's married to Stephanie, and didn't do it because he deserved it…They could see through the facade WWE [would] have to build for it. I could already hear the bull**** chants from the more seasoned fans if they did that.
"In all honesty, at this point in time, the only one that deserves to end the Streak, is Taker himself by hanging it up when he chooses…In other words, he retires undefeated at Mania."



*******

Michael Bluth.....that name sounds familiar.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

-- MMA fighter King Mo Lawal, who was suspended nine months by the Nevada Commission and then fired from Strikeforce by Dana White, is interested in joining WWE. Lawal has been a long-time pro wrestling fan and has expressed interest in joining WWE in the past. Gerald Brisco recruited Lawal years ago but it never worked out as Lawal wanted to compete in the Olympics. When he didn't make the Olympic team, he started MMA instead.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[bullets]

Ditto. If they can still go its not so bad but if its a old broken down shell of a man coming back its just sad to see and taints the legacy some.

Exactly. I think Stone Cold still appears healthy enough. Another guy that returned gracefully for me was Ricky Steamboat.

Well you know there had to be some tension there. At least Bret respected Shawn on a professional level and they were once friends. I never got the sense he had nearly as much respect for Triple H or that they were ever friends of any kind. Triple H never REALLY seemed like he could be just one of the guys. There was always a disconnect because of the way he played the game...so to speak.

Triple H has always been candid on his thoughts on the screwjob.

Well Bret's had some nasty things to say about Triple H. I don't think thsoe two will ever see eye to eye but hopefully they remain on good terms because after Vince is gone the Hart legacy could rest in Triple H's hands.

He makes some good points. Its certainly bad for business if Triple H does it. It doesn't serve any kind of purpose beyond seeing the internet explode

I wouldn't mind so much if Triple H goes heel mode afterwords. It would be one hell of a backlash. I actually have a friend who think Triple H is the best ever and wants him to end the streak. The internet fans would hate it but I wonder how the general audience might perceive it.

 

[bullets]

Michael Bluth.....that name sounds familiar.

haha I always think of that.

That's how you do it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Good point. I think Rocky is probably fed up with Cena making candid statements and might want to get away from that. Punk would only be worse and has more crowd support. At least with Ziggler , Rock can coast through the feud and Ziggler will look like a bigger star for being involved.

Yeah I think Rock may want a more straight forward face/heel dynamic and he has always been fine with working talent from the upper mid to try and elevate them, plus him and Ziggler would be spectacular athletically.

Damn she's fine!

The true ''once in a lifetime'' moment.

Where did these come from? I can almost see how the convo started.

Rock "So I see Triple H leeched off your overness as well?"

Punk "Yes! guys a *****ebag isn't he?"

Thus commence a friendly trashing of the king of noses!

Maybe CM Punk can stop whining now.

Is that security in the background?

I'd really like to know what was discussed considering how Punk feels.

Reminds me of the photo of Bret and HHH talking at Wrestlemania 26. You never thought it would happen.

Probably how they've been working everyone for months and how much money they are gonna make off it.

This.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds Orton/Cena/Punk *****ing about The Rock completely stupid.

I don't see what's stupid about it, if you are Orton for instance how would you feel going into this Mania? you break your back all year long as one of the companies top stars and come game night you're relegated to filler. Punk's points were almost all about Rock's attitude backstage apart from him feeling there is disrespect when people give Rock the entire credit for last years buyrate. Cena's points about feeling Rock is a phony have merit, he's never complained about him coming back for the match.

Cornette's an ass but he makes a good point

HHH was always a great villain but not as great a top babyface. Even during his run at the top after Austin and Rock were semi gone he tried to play Ric Flair.

But indeed he was never in that upper echelon. Even if he was that good (he could have been probably) he never should have mixed business and pleasure if he really wanted to prove himself. The later part of his career will always be tainted with doubts about him and his spot.

Thats what happened when his sperm made a McMahon egg do the job.

I agree that the marriage to Steph will forever shadow his legacy no matter what, but I do think he was for a period of time the best heel and best worker in the WWE, but he's never been a good face.

Yeah people want to pretend that there aren't still a lot of people that LIKE Cena. Even some adults think he's ok.

The difference between people getting tired of Hogan and booing him and people booing Cena is that it took almost a decade for Hogans act to wear thin. People were booing Cena the first year he became the top guy. They didn't even give him much of a chance. Part of that was bad booking but it was also people just wanting to be trendy

I think what really killed Cena at the start was he was a year too early as a worker and the Angle feud which was badly put together, with Angle leading matches where he seemingly forgot he was no longer wrestling Shawn Michaels.

 

[Metallo]

Exactly. I think Stone Cold still appears healthy enough. Another guy that returned gracefully for me was Ricky Steamboat.

Yeah Steamboats a guy who didn't embarrass himself. He wasn't as good as he used to be but he was still surprisingly better than I expected given his age, injury, and the amount of time he'd been less than active as a full time wrestler.

Plus Ricky never got to go out on his own terms so it was nice that he could come back and have say a proper goodbye to end his career

Well Bret's had some nasty things to say about Triple H. I don't think thsoe two will ever see eye to eye but hopefully they remain on good terms because after Vince is gone the Hart legacy could rest in Triple H's hands.

Triple H has had some nasty things to say about Bret I think thats why Bret was so harsh on him. Plus we got Triple H on camera lying to Bret's wife, then claiming he wouldn't have been stupid enough to let the screwjob happen to him if the roles were reversed, and finally his infamous "F*** [Bret]! If he won't do business we'll do business for him!" quote.

I think the two can be cordial now even if they aren't exactly friends. I think Bret was more disappointed in Shawn's part in the whole deal than Triple H's since there wasn't much of a relationship to go down the tubes with HHH to begin with.

Good point about HHH and the Hart legacy. At some point he's going to have a lot of sway over that in the eyes of younger fans. Something for Bret to consider.

I wouldn't mind so much if Triple H goes heel mode afterwords. It would be one hell of a backlash. I actually have a friend who think Triple H is the best ever and wants him to end the streak. The internet fans would hate it but I wonder how the general audience might perceive it.

If he does that he pretty much HAS to use that heel momentum to put Punk over big at a Wrestlemania wouldn't he? No pussyfooting around it then. what good is a story with a mega villain without a great hero winning in the end?

As far as the general audience...some would probably be very entertained but ending the streak isn't going to make Triple the guy that makes WWE super popular again. The excitement from that would fade pretty quick just like most other big stories in WWE.

 

[Anno_Domini]

The true ''once in a lifetime'' moment.

This makes me go....t:

Two of my favorite wrestlers talking to each other and with all of Punk's *****ing...there is still hope now.

 

[Metallo]

Where did these come from? I can almost see how the convo started.

Rock "So I see Triple H leeched off your overness as well?"

Punk "Yes! guys a *****ebag isn't he?"

Thus commence a friendly trashing of the king of noses!

Triple H's nose is the ultimate surveillance device. It NOSE whats going on.

Its also possibly some kind of detachable smark seeking missile. It sought out Punks smark love and terminated his momentum with extreme prejudice.

I don't see what's stupid about it, if you are Orton for instance how would you feel going into this Mania? you break your back all year long as one of the companies top stars and come game night you're relegated to filler. Punk's points were almost all about Rock's attitude backstage apart from him feeling there is disrespect when people give Rock the entire credit for last years buyrate. Cena's points about feeling Rock is a phony have merit, he's never complained about him coming back for the match.

My issue was never with Rock coming back but the amount of work he put into his comeback when there have been guys busting their a** everyday. Thats why the buildup to Rock vs Cena has been so uneven. How many times has Orton been hurt this year alone? These guys are still working hard and it seems like some people forget that. They're people not robots. All those bumps and all those miles are brutal so yeah I can totally understand their feelings.

I agree that the marriage to Steph will forever shadow his legacy no matter what, but I do think he was for a period of time the best heel and best worker in the WWE, but he's never been a good face.

He was a tremendous on screen talent and I think he deserves his big share of praise but he's never truly going to get it without an asterisk or question marks from some people.

Its the same reason some wrestlers and wrestling promoters warn their kids about getting into the business

I feel kind of bad for HHH in a sense but its his own fault. Luckily for him I doubt he cares what anyone else thinks so it doesn't bother him. But I do think HE cares about his place in the WWE pantheon.

Its got to burn him up that someone like Hogan was the man and he wasn't or that the Warrior might have made a bigger mainstream impact than he did.

I think what really killed Cena at the start was he was a year too early as a worker and the Angle feud which was badly put together, with Angle leading matches where he seemingly forgot he was no longer wrestling Shawn Michaels.

I agree. I've always said that for the longest time Angle wasn't a guy who could work men of different styles and sizes as well as others. He never changed gear. he always needed someone better to lead him. Thats why his matches with Hogan...weren't all that great. People joke about Michaels vs Hogan but Michaels knew how to work the big man a lot better than Kurt Angle did

And Cena did indeed get it a year too early. He was immediately thrust into the top spot without time to ease into it. He basically had to learn on the job as the star of the WWE.

 

[Kaleb]

Punk talks about whats Punk and whats not Punk