The Wrestling Thread Won't Beg, But it will Ask Nicely

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The Sage said:
John Cena's been doing it with grace for years now and he's always getting heckled. And really, it was probably hard for the NYC crowd to care about the match since the two guys wrestling were leaving the next day anyway.
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Plus the crowd didn't start getting all over Goldberg and Lesnar until it became obvious that they were phoning it in, you can see the look of disgust on Austin's face.

sweetre15 said:
Here you go:
http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/community/entry.php?45822-6-ways-TNA-can-be-better-than-WWE

I don't think it's an 100% perfect solution but would go a long way to help them stand out more.
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I think some of the stuff like bringing in talent from Japan and Mexico and adding more gimmick matches wont help. To me the X Division getting back to being what it was will give TNA something WWE will never have as Vince doesn't like that type of wrestling, and they need to keep their Knockout's focused on wrestling and leave the model stuff to WWE, that would give them two things that would actually make them an alternative as opposed to WWE lite.

The only thing with the X Division is every guy in it will be wondering if they can be the next Aries, instead of their focus being solely on the division.

I'd also say he's right about them needing to up the production values of their PPV's with distinctive sets so it doesn't feel like a 3 hour Impact. I also think giving the other 3 PPV's outside of BFG a theme will help them sell ass well.

Last but not least they need to get away from faction warfare and start booking individually strong characters that don't require a group as a crutch.
 
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A pretty cool Razor Ramon Tribute I found
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I've been marking out for him(and many others)being in WWE2K14 all day,I've been wanting years for Scott Hall and especially as Razor to be in a new WWE game.

That character invented'swag"!
 

Source: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2013/08/13/21044381.html


Dolph Ziggler was asked to break down the SummerSlam matches that were announced at the time of this interview. Below are his answers:


Kane vs. Bray Wyatt


"As much as I see Kane as, and he is this awesome utility player who's been here for 15, 20 years and still moves the same as he did when he first got here, which is great — that guy is a leader and a star player and he's going to be in the hall of fame one day and he's awesome — I feel like Bray Wyatt, with his crew behind him, even though though this is an inferno match, which in this day and age I don't even know the rules to ... I'm just assuming it's flames around the rings like there were when Kane used to do those. I feel like they're up and coming, hungry guys who don't care about anything, and they'll injure people and they don't even care, as much as I like Kane and don't really care for these backwoods guys, I feel like even though this is Kane's kind of match, those guys are going to find a way to come out on top."


Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow

"First and foremost, watching that Money In The Bank pay-per-view, and watching that match, I go 'wow.' That was probably the moment of Cody's career, I think.  He's been in title matches, he's been in programs with Randy (Orton), he's been in Legacy, all that stuff, and I went, 'wow, he made himself; well him and everyone else in that match made him a star that night.' And then you had Sandow win that briefcase. Great. Two guys with more potential to be put into a bigger spot, that's fantastic. So now, looking ahead those two guys going head to head, it's great, it's win-win for everybody. It's two young up and comers trying to make a name for themselves and those two are going to go out there and try to outdo each other, which is the best. When you have two young guys trying to prove to the world and fans that, 'we're the next guys,' 'I should have his briefcase,' or what it represents. That's really cool. I'm going to have to say, I think Cody wins the match and Sandow has the briefcase for a later date."


Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk
[SIZE=+0]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]"In the world of WWE where anything can happen, I've gotta say, me being one of the, I guess when Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio isn't around, being the smallest guy in the sometimes main-event picture, I've got to go with the smaller guy, who has that love for this sport, this love for this business in him. And he still has that chip on his shoulder no matter what. He's become champion several times, he's made the big bucks, he's been in the premiere matches and he still has that anger to him, which I appreciate because that's what fuels me to keep going. Man, Lesnar ... I remember my freshman year at college was his senior year at the national tournament and I was on deck on a mat to wrestle and I saw him and I went, 'man, this guy is tough.' Little did I know years later we'd be working together. He is a beast. He is the most credible beast that I can ever imagine being in our company and beating people up for real. I feel like that is going to be a fun, very real, possibly bloody, busted-open match and through the match against WWE, I hope Punk pulls it off."[/SIZE]


John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan for the WWE Championship

"Once again, I'm going to go with the guy who has a chip on his shoulder, something to prove. He's a smaller guy, he's not just a wrestler. Cena, personally I'm sick of him. Ten years, doing the same thing, same five moves, the crowd loves him, the crowd hates him, either way, he does the same thing ... I'm sick of it. I understand the awesome charity work he does, I understand what he represents, he makes a great face for our company ... I'd rather see his face on a WWE dollar bill than Daniel Bryan's. But I feel like we need a change, and as much as I feel like I'm that change, Daniel Bryan is in the position to actually beat John Cena. Not to go out there and go, 'oh, hey, he had a really good match, great, let's move on.' I don't know what's going to happen. I hope he wins."


Dolph Ziggler/Kaitlyn vs. Big E. Langston/AJ Lee


"One way or another, I've actually got to be in the ring with him. Here's the part that kills me. For about five months, on the road, whether I was in singles matches with him outside my corner, or in tag matches, tagging with him, I was literally taking him under my wing. And how great it is to have me as the guy helping out on the road, going, 'hey, no, you've got to think about this, you've got to do this.' Someone who loves it and is good at it actually passing knowledge down to a younger guy instead of giving him the wrong advice or trying to screw him over or whatever. Of course, it comes back to bite me. Now he's the strongest guy in the WWE I think, literally pound for pound. And now he's got some my knowledge in his and head and I have to go out there and face him. Although if you check his win-loss record and mine, it might be a laughable 150-2 to 2-150, but I would have to say at the end of the day, I would think that in my position, and being in my position in the WWE and what I've done here, it would be my time to overcome, beat him. It's not going to end his career, it's not going to end his run ... he's just getting going and he's going to be great. Right now, I feel like I'm the much better performer, he's still the young up and comer.
 
Sooo... watching Smackdown, and I just gotta say it...

I don't think the Wyatts are appealing to me in the least bit. I'm just... not interested.

Also - that's nice that Sandow has a new briefcase... but isn't the contract still at the bottom of the gulf?

And while I love Christian, I'm really disappointed that it's not Ziggler in the WHC match.
 
The Wyatt Family are awesome characters, but they have yet to do anything really interesting. But I'm sure after SS we'll see them develop even more and hopefully, build to a Wyatt Family/Shield match at WM30.
 
Yea, I'm not ready to say they suck.

But right now, I'm getting SES vibes.

And SES was one of the most god awful things I've ever hated in wrestling.
 
So Nell, do you dislike cult leader villains in general?
 
AntMan said:
So Nell, do you dislike cult leader villains in general?
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I'm thinking I do. And thinking about it, I think this is why:

I've said a bazillion times that I look at wrestling like I look at a TV show, or a movie. Due to the fact that it's a scripted sport, for me, it needs the storyline and the character for me to get invested.

However, it is live theatre / TV who's entire premise is that of trying to pass itself off as a real sport and real competition, even if we all know that it's not.

And these cult type leaders... their motivations are usually trying to impact the world or society in some form... why are they in a wrestling ring?

I guess the way I see it, I don't see the motives of these guys having anything to do with a wrestling ring, and so it's hard for me to buy into.

That, and the fact that preachy stuff typically turns me off in the first place. At least like Right To Censor was a spoof of that sort of thing, so it worked on a different level. But things like SES or The Wyatt Family, I'm just like "okay... I'm supposed to care why?"

That being said, while Bray Wyatt has done nothing that's really caught my interest, I'll acknowledge this much - he's good at it. It's just that what he does isn't particularly interesting to me at the moment. But his theatricality is well executed. And the one thing about him I think I do like is his finisher, and the kiss he does to his victim before he performs it. I like that much of his character.

I'll say this, if the Wyatt Family gets involved in an angle that actually serves a purpose after SummerSlam rather than just cutting out and cutting monologues that have nothing to do with anything, I'll probably start buying into it. But right now, my jury is still out. I don't like it. I don't actively dislike it. It's just... there right now.

It hasn't earned the fast forward treatment that SES had, or that Real Americans currently has.
 
I always find those characters interesting, Nell. In the context of WWE it works because perhaps Bray Wyatt is a con artist using weak minded people to move himself up the ladder.

Undertaker and Kane make zero sense in the context of wrestling and yet they work.
 
You're right, Undertaker and Kane don't make sense in the context of wrestling, but I think anyone who's ever watched wrestling would agree that both of these guys have jumped the shark on more than one occasion.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
You're right, Undertaker and Kane don't make sense in the context of wrestling, but I think anyone who's ever watched wrestling would agree that both of these guys have jumped the shark on more than one occasion.
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And yet people are still drawn to those characters.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
I'm thinking I do. And thinking about it, I think this is why:

I've said a bazillion times that I look at wrestling like I look at a TV show, or a movie. Due to the fact that it's a scripted sport, for me, it needs the storyline and the character for me to get invested.

However, it is live theatre / TV who's entire premise is that of trying to pass itself off as a real sport and real competition, even if we all know that it's not.

And these cult type leaders... their motivations are usually trying to impact the world or society in some form... why are they in a wrestling ring?

I guess the way I see it, I don't see the motives of these guys having anything to do with a wrestling ring, and so it's hard for me to buy into.

That, and the fact that preachy stuff typically turns me off in the first place. At least like Right To Censor was a spoof of that sort of thing, so it worked on a different level. But things like SES or The Wyatt Family, I'm just like "okay... I'm supposed to care why?"

That being said, while Bray Wyatt has done nothing that's really caught my interest, I'll acknowledge this much - he's good at it. It's just that what he does isn't particularly interesting to me at the moment. But his theatricality is well executed. And the one thing about him I think I do like is his finisher, and the kiss he does to his victim before he performs it. I like that much of his character.

I'll say this, if the Wyatt Family gets involved in an angle that actually serves a purpose after SummerSlam rather than just cutting out and cutting monologues that have nothing to do with anything, I'll probably start buying into it. But right now, my jury is still out. I don't like it. I don't actively dislike it. It's just... there right now.

It hasn't earned the fast forward treatment that SES had, or that Real Americans currently has.
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I know you've only been watching wrestling since 99 but here are some names that I hope are familiar to you:

Undertaker

Kane

Big Boss Man

Raven (his ECW character)

Mankind

Gangrel (whom had the vampire faction that got over The Hardys and Edge/Christian)

The Ministry of Darkness with Viscera, Mideon, Bradshaw and Farooq

Goldust


What do all these guys have in common? They are all full fledged gimmick characters that don't realistically make sense in wrestling due to either being supernatural demons, supernatural cult members/ regular cult leaders and members, A supposed cop or a weirdo wannabe actor that paints himself gold etc etc. While wrestling is theatre, it also has a bit of carnival aspect to it with colorful character and gimmick types. This is also necessary to keep wrestling products from getting stale. Different types of looks, and gimmicks is essential regardless of how outrageous and unrealistic they can get.

I'd bring up older examples like Papa Shango and UltimateWarrior but you weren't watching during that time.
 
sweetre15 said:
I know you've only been watching wrestling since 99 but here are some names that I hope are familiar to you:

Undertaker

Kane

Big Boss Man

Raven (his ECW character)

Gangrel (whom had the vampire faction that got over The Hardys and Edge/Christian)

The Ministry of Darkness with Viscera, Mideon, Bradshaw and Farooq

Goldust


What do all these guys have in common? They are all full fledged gimmick characters that don't realistically make sense in wrestling due to either being supernatural demons, supernatural cult members/ regular cult leaders and members, A supposed cop or a weirdo wannabe actor that paints himself gold. While wrestling is theatre etc, it also has a bit of carnival aspect to it with colorful character and gimmick types. This is also necessary to keep wrestling products from getting stale. Different types of looks, and gimmicks is essential regardless of how outrageous and unrealistic they can get.

I'd bring up older examples like Papa Shango and UltimateWarrior but you weren't watching during that time.
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All of those guys I know on some level, but I didn't see all of them.

Undertaker - One of my top favorites
Kane - He's hit or miss. Good enough I have a respect for him, but I'm not always invested in him.
Big Boss Man - Was alright. Didn't love him, but certainly didn't hate him
Raven - Never cared for Raven (don't know the ECW version tho)
Gangrel - Never cared for Gangrel
Ministry Of Darkness - Wasn't around for this really
Goldust - Never cared for Goldust
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
Yea, they generally work.

For me, SES never did, and Wyatt Family currently isn't. Just... no appeal.
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I totally understand that. I'm sure you can at least see why others would like SES and the Wyatts though.
 
Nell2ThaIzzay said:
All of those guys I know on some level, but I didn't see all of them.

Undertaker - One of my top favorites
Kane - He's hit or miss. Good enough I have a respect for him, but I'm not always invested in him.
Big Boss Man - Was alright. Didn't love him, but certainly didn't hate him
Raven - Never cared for Raven (don't know the ECW version tho)
Gangrel - Never cared for Gangrel
Ministry Of Darkness - Wasn't around for this really
Goldust - Never cared for Goldust
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You didn't see the stuff where The Undertaker and the Ministry of Darkness were working with The Mcmahons against Stone Cold? When they crucified Stone Cold for instance?

Either way, you get my point right?

Wrestling(atleast WWF/WWE) also has a "freak show" element to it with the outrageous characters and gimmicks.
 
Sure.

Like I said, Wyatt is doing good at what he's doing. What he's doing just isn't particularly what I'm interested in.
 
sweetre15 said:
You didn't see the stuff where The Undertaker and the Ministry of Darkness were working with The Mcmahons against Stone Cold? When they crucified Stone Cold for instance?
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No. Deadman / Phenom Undertaker was all but gone by the time I started watching. I think I saw only a couple matches with him before he left for however long he was gone until he came back as American Badass.

I never saw them crucify Stone Cold, no. I saw a clip like on YouTube or something of crucifying Stephanie McMahon. One of those shark jumping moments.
 
You don't watch wrestling DVDs and go through old matches?
 
Only wrestling DVD's I have are Wrestlemania 27 and Summerslam 2001 (both events I attended), and The Rock's Most Electrifying Man In Sports Entertainment DVD.

I watch older stuff occasionally, but I don't consider myself a student of wrestling, no.
 
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