Apocalypse These Timelines Are So Confusing. Continuity Errors.

[dax]

1. Logan is recruited in Vietnam. I assumed it happened in 1969. He spent many years as a member of Team X. In 1973, He retired (Africa). 6 years later, as stated in the movie, he is then turned into weapon X.

2-There's evidence on-screen that X2 is placed in 2004. There's evidence on-screen TLS is placed in 2005 as well.

For no. 1, there are a few problems with those theories:
A) Logan wasn't in Africa in 1973. Days of Future Past showed us he was in New York during that year.
B)Gambit told Logan that noone has been to Three Mile Island nor would they dare to sneak around the island so that means the movie is set after the nuclear meltdown of 1979.
And
C) The presence of Old Xavier (Patrick Stewart) speaks volumes of the fact that Origins is set in the same timeline as the X3 flashback scene.

For no. 2, the timestamp on the Blackbird photo presented by Stryker says it was taken in 2002 so that tells us that both X1 and X2 are set in 2002, considering that Cyclops pointed out that 1 month had passed since the Liberty Island battle. You're right about X3 being set in 2005 since the timestamp on Beast's magazine says it was issued in October 2005.

Aside from a few goofs, the continuity of the X-films (excluding Deadpool) flow quite well if X-Men Origins: Wolverine is ignored. X-Men: First Class, The Wolverine, and X-Men: Days of Future Past already ignore the film. There's no sense in any of us trying to include it either.

None of those films ignored X-Men Origins: Wolverine at all. For starters:
- Wolverine's presence in First Class alone is an acknowledgement of Origins's existence since it coincides with the war montage that spans over 100 years.
- The atomic bomb scene in the Wolverine also coincides with the war montage since this was during World War 2.
- Kayla's voice can be heard in the Wolverine after he is taken down by ninjas.
-Some of the weapon X footage in Days of Future Past are from Origins.
-DOFP had Wolverine referenced the war montage when he said, "I've been through a lot of wars but never like this"
-DOFP showed a clip of Sabertooth breaking Wolverine's bone claws with his foot during the moment Xavier was reading Wolverine's mind.
And
-The woman laying in bed with Wolverine called him "Jimmy" which used to be his name in Origins before he lost his memories.

It's not that simple to ignore Origins when there are too many references of that film in the movies you've just listed and now, Wolverine's cameo and Cyclops's introduction scenes in Apocalypse have only assured that the events of X-Men Origins: Wolverine still happened, but in a different way now.

 

[Havok83]

None of those films ignored X-Men Origins: Wolverine at all. For starters:
- Wolverine's presence in First Class alone is an acknowledgement of Origins's existence since it coincides with the war montage that spans over 100 years.
- The atomic bomb scene in the Wolverine also coincides with the war montage since this was during World War 2.
- Kayla's voice can be heard in the Wolverine after he is taken down by ninjas.
-Some of the weapon X footage in Days of Future Past are from Origins.
-DOFP had Wolverine referenced the war montage when he said, "I've been through a lot of wars but never like this"
-DOFP showed a clip of Sabertooth breaking Wolverine's bone claws with his foot during the moment Xavier was reading Wolverine's mind.
And
-The woman laying in bed with Wolverine called him "Jimmy" which used to be his name in Origins before he lost his memories.

It's not that simple to ignore Origins when there are too many references of that film in the movies you've just listed and now, Wolverine's cameo and Cyclops's introduction scenes in Apocalypse have only assured that the events of X-Men Origins: Wolverine still happened, but in a different way now.

actually it is. Watching or having knowledge of the events of Origins is NOT required material to watch or understand any of the films. Most of the stuff you mentioned is pretty generic, minor and frankly inconsequential. Specific plot points and characters dont pop up. Its not like say ignoring X3, which would make DOFP very confusing. There are stuff in Origins that would make latter films confusing bc it is inconsistent but the actual major stuff is not referenced. Ignoring Origins has no impact on The Wolverine, FC or DOFP.

 

[Mutant 77]

For no. 1, there are a few problems with those theories:
A) Logan wasn't in Africa in 1973. Days of Future Past showed us he was in New York during that year.
B)Gambit told Logan that noone has been to Three Mile Island nor would they dare to sneak around the island so that means the movie is set after the nuclear meltdown of 1979.
And
C) The presence of Old Xavier (Patrick Stewart) speaks volumes of the fact that Origins is set in the same timeline as the X3 flashback scene.

1- Different timelines. There are two timelines where Origins happened.

Timeline Prime A - X-Men Origins: Wolverine the exact way you see on screen.
Timeline Prime B - a REVISED version of Origins (no Frost, No Banshee, no Quicksilver, no Wade/Deadpool).

2- Not a proof.

3- Yeah. Both happened in Timeline Prima A.

There are 3 timelines.

I'm not sure about the "2002" picture. The picture was taken few years before?

 

[Mutant 77]

Summing up my continuity scenario.


The Original Timeline, which I call "Timeline Prime A" (Alpha):
X-Men Origins: Wolverine (1979)
X-Men (2004)
X2 (2004)
X-Men: The Last Stand (2005)

No "The Wolverine" or "DOFP" happening afterward. The "war" has been won. The X-Men has won.
Then, many years after the events of "The Last Stand", some crazy mutant comes back to the past. He travels to 1913 (or so) and alters the timeline in many ways. Some births "shift in time"; some people are born earlier (Moira, Angel), some people are born later (Wade).

"Timeline Prime B" (Beta) is thus born:
First Class (1962)
REVISED X-Men Origins (1981) - No Wade, no Frost, No Banshee, No Quicksilver.
REVISED X-Men (200?)
REVISED X2 (200?)
REVISED The Last Stand (200?) - No Angel.
The Wolverine (2013)
DOFP (2023)

Wolverine comes back to the past (1973) and thus create the third iteration of the timeline: "Timeline Sigma".
First Class (1962)
DOFP (1973)
Apocalypse (1983)
Deadpool (2016)
Positive future of DOFP (2023)
Wolverine 3 (202?)

For MORE, visit here:
http://x-continuity.blogspot.it/p/essential-timeline.html

 

[metaphysician]

Going with this theory, who says the unnamed time traveler is a mutant? Most of the changes in Timeline B seem to lead to things going worse for mutants. It could have been an anti-mutant bigot with a time machine.

 

[Batsfan1]

Going with this theory, who says the unnamed time traveler is a mutant? Most of the changes in Timeline B seem to lead to things going worse for mutants. It could have been an anti-mutant bigot with a time machine.

I suggest that it was Emma Frost. A difference in timeline 2 from 1 is the alteration of Emma's age at the earliest point than anyone elses. I think that she came to help Sebastian end humanity and prevent mutant human peace. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm not a huge stickler for sticking to continuity or anything when it comes to minor details, but this franchise is just ridiculous with how often things are just completely ignored from one film to the next. It is so bad that on TV Tropes, this is the only franchise in any medium that has its own separate page for continuity conflicts.

I think it is easily the main reason why there are so many calls for a reboot. Because if nothing else it at least wipes all these errors out and gives the franchise a clean slate to work with. I personally don't really want a reboot, but I can certainly understand why there are calls for one.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm not a huge stickler for sticking to continuity or anything when it comes to minor details, but this franchise is just ridiculous with how often things are just completely ignored from one film to the next. It is so bad that on TV Tropes, this is the only franchise in any medium that has its own separate page for continuity conflicts.

I think it is easily the main reason why there are so many calls for a reboot. Because if nothing else it at least wipes all these errors out and gives the franchise a clean slate to work with. I personally don't really want a reboot, but I can certainly understand why there are calls for one.

You'd need to reboot the creative/filmmaking team for any narrative reboot to stick.

The current filmmaking team are happy to ignore their own films when it suits them.

 

[Mutant 77]

Going with this theory, who says the unnamed time traveler is a mutant? Most of the changes in Timeline B seem to lead to things going worse for mutants. It could have been an anti-mutant bigot with a time machine.

Everything is possible. You may be right. One thing is for sure: the timeline has been altered before DOFP.

 

[ApophènX]

You'd need to reboot the creative/filmmaking team for any narrative reboot to stick.

The current filmmaking team are happy to ignore their own films when it suits them.

That is just you seeing that. When you look for differencies you find them, when you look for similitude you will find them. They are in no way ignoring their own films.

I mean Singer is there since day one, he surely knows more about his movie than everyone else, he said in a interview he saw XMA as the closing of six films and it is what he did. Give a proper conclusion and even a new start for the franchise. Cleansing

 

[marvelrobbins]

That is just you seeing that. When you look for differencies you find them, when you look for similitude you will find them. They are in no way ignoring their own films.

I mean Singer is there since day one, he surely knows more about his movie than everyone else, he said in a interview he saw XMA as the closing of six films and it is what he did. Give a proper conclusion and even a new start for the franchise. Cleansing

Apocalypse was 1:Concluding First class trilogy 2:Paying homage to X-men and x2 in some ways 3:Bringing to close some of his original vision for franchise and 4:Setting up for future films

 

[ApophènX]

Apocalypse was 1:Concluding First class trilogy 2:Paying homage to X-men and x2 in some ways 3:Bringing to close some of his original vision for franchise and 4:Setting up for future films

Yep he did all that and many are still compaining with nonsense and things they misunderstood, give the guy a break. He did a great job. Thank you Singer and everyone, i really enjoyed your X-Men movies.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Yep he did all that and many are still compaining with nonsense and things they misunderstood, give the guy a break. He did a great job. Thank you Singer and everyone, i really enjoyed your X-Men movies.

unfortully this board has become a let's bash Singer and his films.I look forward to getting Apocalypse on DVD so i can watch it with X-Men,X2,and DOFP.

who knows who will be doing the next X-men film.

 

[ApophènX]

I think the futur will be great for the X-Men, with each movie they make they have made mistakes. If a new director comes in with a frzsh vision and understand what singer has done, right and wrong. There could be way dor great improvement. Still following the basis and core, wich is for le the reason i would not prefer a reboot. Or a soft one.

And if it's bad maybe people will come worshipping Singer like Apocalypse. For now most have burried him.

 

[X-Maniac]

unfortully this board has become a let's bash Singer and his films.I look forward to getting Apocalypse on DVD so i can watch it with X-Men,X2,and DOFP.

who knows who will be doing the next X-men film.

Whatever this board might say or think, let's see the bigger picture: the box office. The general audience has spoken. And the critics.

Whatever we might think on here, it's clear the film has had a mixed reception and an underwhelming box office. Are you seriously trying to blame everything on the people on this board?

 

[marvelrobbins]

edit

 

[Batsfan1]

Yep he did all that and many are still compaining with nonsense and things they misunderstood, give the guy a break. He did a great job. Thank you Singer and everyone, i really enjoyed your X-Men movies.

There's nothing to misunderstand about bad continuity. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[ApophènX]

There's nothing to misunderstand about bad continuity. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

What kind of bad continuity? The character not having age as much as they should,Mystique taking Wolverine outa the water, i don't even have any other, i don't see the point of focusing on such thing.

 

[henzINNIT]

What kind of bad continuity? The character not having age as much as they should,Mystique taking Wolverine outa the water, i don't even have any other, i don't see the point of focusing on such thing.

Good continuity will help an audience invest in the world they are witnessing. Gaps and contradictions destroy the suspension of disbelief. It's cool if you can ignore them, but a series such as this shouldn't force you too.

I think everyone on this board will have pretty good plot-hole tolerance to be still around after so many years, and while inconsistancies are certainly nothing new, I don't see why it should be any more acceptable.

TLDR version: Fox's universe is a continuity disaster.

 

[ApophènX]

I think if people would look for the similitude as much they do for the miscontinuity they will find it. It's really a matter of what you are focusing on. We are used to rationallism and over-use of language, this is a big influence for how people relate to movie in my opinion. When i go see a movie i try to always stay open, when i close myself every time somthing does not goes my way i always end up disliking the movie and not really understanding it.

It is a fictional work i think it should not rely on the same rules as reality. It clearly look like it and feel like it, focusing on everything that is not like perfectly according to reality ruins the experience to me. In fact i want the opposite, to have fun and relax, let go. The movie are really coherent in terls of thematics and characters evolution or symbolic. I don't ask for more, it is just about changing your view of it.

Everybody complain about Mystique "resurecting" Logan. You will notice Moira "resurect" Apocalypse. Both have the same roles, alternatively, in the movie: revealing evil (FC and Apocalypse for Moira, DoFP for Mystique.). It was also a contrast with X3 where it was man discovering and resurecting woman, scott/jean. The movie being about man letting go of woman this makes sens to me.

Yes those are details but I think we build our experience. And focusing too much on miscontinuities isn't that much constructive imo. Just evrywhere you read about apocalypse it's bashing and looking for the bad and not the positiv. And often it come from a misunderstanding of the goal of the movie (the ex of mystique)

 

[GuestStar2004]

The Mystique fishing wolverine out of the water is not bad continuity, its set 10 years after that movie and the fact that people even questioned that scene means they promised us nothing with it in the first place.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Good continuity will help an audience invest in the world they are witnessing. Gaps and contradictions destroy the suspension of disbelief. It's cool if you can ignore them, but a series such as this shouldn't force you too.

I think everyone on this board will have pretty good plot-hole tolerance to be still around after so many years, and while inconsistancies are certainly nothing new, I don't see why it should be any more acceptable.

TLDR version: Fox's universe is a continuity disaster.

Disaster is a good way of putting it.

Some minor continuity errors aren't really a big deal. Ex. Xavier making a brief comment that he and Magneto first met at 17 and then several films later they meet around 30 when doing the prequel story isn't a major issue and I think most fans would let that go.

However, this series is more than just small inconsistencies like that. They all but completely ignore continuity from one film to the next. Moira is a Scottish scientist in one film and then an American CIA agent from the 60s in the next. Bolivar Trask is a large black military man in one film and then a white dwarf scientist in another. Emma Frost is an adult in the 60s, dead in the 70s, and then a teenage girl in the 80s. Mystique is nothing to Xavier in one set of films, and then suddenly his closest family in another set. Wolverine has no memory of his past in some films, but does in another with no explanation. Etc.

This franchise is littered with things like that.

 

[henzINNIT]

It is a fictional work i think it should not rely on the same rules as reality. It clearly look like it and feel like it, focusing on everything that is not like perfectly according to reality ruins the experience to me. In fact i want the opposite, to have fun and relax, let go. The movie are really coherent in terls of thematics and characters evolution or symbolic. I don't ask for more, it is just about changing your view of it.

It doesn't have to follow the rules of reality, but it should have a functioning internal logic of its own, espeically as a piece of a larger whole. There's only so much a fan can ignore before the house of cards collapses. Your mileage will vary, but the franchise is a laughing stock to some and has been for a while for others. It's a shame it continues to alienate people. As you said, its more coherent thematically, so it's a shame the series can't strive to be both.

The Mystique fishing wolverine out of the water is not bad continuity, its set 10 years after that movie and the fact that people even questioned that scene means they promised us nothing with it in the first place.

Maybe not bad continuity. Definitely bad story-telling. The scene promised a lot. It was the chosen symbol of a fresh start and a changed timeline.

If we could go back 2 years and ask, do you really think anyone would expect the next film to pick up on this thread with Logan in captivity as if nothing had happened?

Slightly OT: With the reports coming out about Wolverine 3, I'm beginning to wonder if this scene was a late addition to reaffirm Logan's origin in time for his last solo outing.

 

[ApophènX]

Not harming in any way, my way to look at it:

in X3 and XMA it is always Moira that is in charge of the body resurecting. Charles or Apocalypse. As i said in my earlier post Mystique and Moira have a commun relation, they are both the one discovering evil, also notice that when it is Moira who is doing so Mystique is hidding her blue form (FC and XMA).

Trask changes seriously? who cares, him being a dwarf is interesting on the psychological level, little guy building big robots, etc.

It really is because you focused on it and give it weight, non of these thing bother me. To me comic bood are supposed to do those kind of non sensical goofy stuff, why be so rigid about it?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It doesn't have to follow the rules of reality, but it should have a functioning internal logic of its own, espeically as a piece of a larger whole. There's only so much a fan can ignore before the house of cards collapses. Your mileage will vary, but the franchise is a laughing stock to some and has been for a while for others. It's a shame it continues to alienate people. As you said, its more coherent thematically, so it's a shame the series can't strive to be both.



Maybe not bad continuity. Definitely bad story-telling. The scene promised a lot. It was the chosen symbol of a fresh start and a changed timeline.

If we could go back 2 years and ask, do you really think anyone would expect the next film to pick up on this thread with Logan in captivity as if nothing had happened?

Agreed. Yes, this is a scene that isn't explicitly contradicted by Apocalypse. However, if Mystique fishing him out of the water wasn't going to have any relevance, it never should have been in the film. It being Stryker would have made for much better storytelling.

In that case we would have gone directly from A -> B. Instead we go from A -> ? -> B. That's bad.