TIH vs. Ang Lee's Hulk

[Mrs. Sawyer]

He stuck in the comic book panel multi-screen stuff, but, in a way that could be construed as saying he was embaressed about the comic book origin of the material, like, 'Hey look, it's me Ang Lee adaptor of literature, but here I know it's only a comic-book, look, see, I'm making it *look* like the actual pages you used to read when you were a kid! How arty is that!'

I've been saying that about Hulk for a long time. I always felt that Ang Lee was embarrassed of the comic book origin and tried too hard to not make it feel like a comic book movie. To me, he failed at it.

The Incredible Hulk may not have been as deep or as psychological, but it achieves it's goals much better than Ang Lee's Hulk did as a summer superhero movie. I do wish they kept the deleted scenes in the movie because those scenes did really take away from the character development.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

However yeah Rami on his Spiderman films may have made statements on what he should have done but it was based on how he it could have improved his vision all artist do.
He wasn't saying I should have had another vision.

He pretty much was saying that he should have had another vision, and that would have been his improved vision. You're backtracking and you're making up excuses for Raimi while still condemming Lee. You're being very hypocritical.

 

[soundofyousick]

He pretty much was saying that he should have had another vision, and that would have been his improved vision. You're backtracking and you're making up excuses for Raimi while still condemming Lee. You're being very hypocritical.

The Raimi quote seemed like a very offhand statement that a lot of filmakers/artists make, about how they would change this and that shot, Raimi's vision was consistent for the trilogy.

See, the thing about 'hulk's drama was that it was in fact anti-fun, there was nothing exciting really about the drama, it was all very intense and foreboding. when he comes out as saying he should have made it 'more fun', he is talking about a diametrically opposed approach.
There is not one scene in that movie, drama-wise, that can be construed as fun.

@Hmarrs, what i meant by you being a bit harsh was that artists are only human, they can make mistakes and they can also kid themselves on abit , before coming to realise later on they were wrong. Ang Lee is a great artist, one mis-step, or even him not being so self-aware, back-tracking whatever...it is harsh to knock him off the roster roll of 'artists' for that. People learn, interviews are not what is set in stone in that person's mind, it is just a snapshot of a conversation they had that day, maybe he wasn't thinking things through as much as say, people on here who debate this movie a alot.

But, as i said, i know what you mean, although I would not have put it quite in those terms.

 

[Hmarrs]

He pretty much was saying that he should have had another vision, and that would have been his improved vision. You're backtracking and you're making up excuses for Raimi while still condemming Lee. You're being very hypocritical.

No I'm not hippocitical it's one thing to say i should have shot that clip at a different angle then to say I should have gone with a different mood for the film entirely.I should have gone from Dark and Phsyco Drama to Light and Fun is not like saying I wish I shot that scene from the Left instead of the Right.

 

[soundofyousick]

sorry if i jumped in there, it was just that i had said soemthing about that Raimi quote that PW's statement also tried to contradict.

 

[Hmarrs]

The Raimi quote seemed like a very offhand statement that a lot of filmakers/artists make, about how they would change this and that shot, Raimi's vision was consistent for the trilogy.

See, the thing about 'hulk's drama was that it was in fact anti-fun, there was nothing exciting really about the drama, it was all very intense and foreboding. when he comes out as saying he should have made it 'more fun', he is talking about a diametrically opposed approach.
There is not one scene in that movie, drama-wise, that can be construed as fun.

@Hmarrs, what i meant by you being a bit harsh was that artists are only human, they can make mistakes and they can also kid themselves on abit , before coming to realise later on they were wrong. Ang Lee is a great artist, one mis-step, or even him not being so self-aware, back-tracking whatever...it is harsh to knock him off the roster roll of 'artists' for that. People learn, interviews are not what is set in stone in that person's mind, it is just a snapshot of a conversation they had that day, maybe he wasn't thinking things through as much as say, people on here who debate this movie a alot.

But, as i said, i know what you mean, although I would not have put it quite in those terms.

Ok Sound I see where your comming from and ok I take your point.
I think what I'm saying is.
I personally do not believe he really feels that way.
I believe he is caving in the general consensus and not sticking to what he himself believes to be right.
This guy has been badgered and beaten down at every turn.No one cares what he did before or after Hulk.
He is known for the Hulk flop.
Every Comic Convention,everyFilm Convention,every Internet Blog.
He must just be done with it.
Honestly it must be tough.I just don't believe he made that statement and believed it.
That's what I'm trying to say.
It's not that I can't accept it because I'm a big fan of the movie because Im not.
I don't believe it becuase of what he himself put into the movie to make it sound like an oversight,hindsight or just matter of fact.
When you know he put his heart and soul into it.
Personally I think he caved under the pressure.

 

[Hmarrs]

sorry if i jumped in there, it was just that i had said soemthing about that Raimi quote that PW's statement also tried to contradict.

All Good.

 

[soundofyousick]

Ok Sound I see where your comming from and ok I take your point.
I think what I'm saying is.
I personally do not believe he really feels that way.
I believe he is caving in the general consensus and not sticking to what he himself to be right.
This guy has been badgered and beaten down at every turn.No one cares what he did beofre or after Hulk.
He is known for the Hulk flop.
Every Comic Convention,every film Convention,every Internet Blog.
He must just be done with it.
Honestly it must be tough.I just don't believe he made that statement and believed it.
That's what I'm trying to say.
It's not that I can't accept it because I'm a big fan of the movie because Im not.
I don't believe it becuase of what he himself put into the movie to make it sound like and oversight,hindsightor just matter of fact.
You know he put his heart and soul into it.
Personally I think he caved under the pressure.

You mean he caved after all that onslaught, yeah, as I was saying, I think you might be right, given the courage of his convictions *while* making the movie.

 

[Hmarrs]

I've been saying that about Hulk for a long time. I always felt that Ang Lee was embarrassed of the comic book origin and tried too hard to not make it feel like a comic book movie. To me, he failed at it.

The Incredible Hulk may not have been as deep or as psychological, but it achieves it's goals much better than Ang Lee's Hulk did as a summer superhero movie. I do wish they kept the deleted scenes in the movie because those scenes did really take away from the character development.

That's just it The Incredible Hulk had no Goals.

 

[Hmarrs]

you mean he caved after all that onslaught, yeah, as i was saying, i think you might be right, given the courage of his convictions *while* making the movie.

Yes.Exactly.

 

[Shazam]

hahahahahaha!!!
119 to 57 in favor of TIH???

Outstanding!!!

 

[Hmarrs]

Now you're just getting silly and speaking in hyperbole and overexaggeration. I question how old you are also.

An artist can change their vision because it is their vision. It's what came from their mind and their head, and as times change, their mindset can change as they mature (or demature) as a person and a human being. Basically, what you're saying is that a person can't and should not ever change anything about them as an extension of saying an artist can't change their opinion on something.

You're one of the several people on this site who have no idea what an artist is at all. Deep down, you are just bitter and angry that Ang Lee doesn't view his own movie as preciously as sad Hulk fanboys do.

I know exactly what being an Artist is.
It's a personel expression through a medium period.
If it was his decision then thats fine like I said only he knows.
However if your personel vision is altered by the opinion of others then its nothing more then commercialism.
I am not a Hulk fanboy because I didn't even like the film so thats not what this is about.

You have called into question how old I am.
Yet,you have gone to great extents to insult me everytime you want to make a point.
That's childish grow up and make your point intellgently without insults.

You have called me angry, bitter,silly,a hippocrete,not knowing what the word hindsight meant,
A sad Hulk fanboy,immature and yet I ignored it and have shown restraint.

Parker Wayne I have seen you on here before and had respect for you.
However at this point Im convinced your nothing more then a TROLL.

 

[Number 6]

Lee's Hulk is my favorite superhero movie, so that would be it for me. I understand why some don't like it, but I felt it pulled off all it's ambitions quite right. I'm also not sure I agree that Lee was embarrassed by the comic book origins, though, as I noticed someone saying in this argument above. I think, as he says on the special features, he just wanted to add another layer to it.

I actually sort of loved the paneling inspired shots.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I know exactly what being an Artist is.
It's a personel expression through a medium period.
If it was his decision then thats fine like I said only he knows.
However if your personel vision is altered by the opinion of others then its nothing more then commercialism.
I am not a Hulk fanboy because I didn't even like the film so thats not what this is about.

You have called into question how old I am.
Yet,you have gone to great extents to insult me everytime you want to make a point.
That's childish grow up and make your point intellgently without insults.

You have called me angry, bitter,silly,a hippocrete,not knowing what the word hindsight meant,
A sad Hulk fanboy,immature and yet I ignored it and have shown restraint.

Parker Wayne I have seen you on here before and had respect for you.
However at this point Im convinced your nothing more then a TROLL.

First, I'm not a fan of the movie Hulk, nor am I a Hulk fanboy. Next, you shouldn't call people a troll if you don't know what it means, which I've witness you have a tendency of using words in which don't know what it means. I'm not going to great lengths, just call them like I see them. And as you don't know what a troll is, you don't know what an artist is.

And one last thing. You're the one who overreacted to Ang Lee's comment. He wishes he had more fun with the movie, but he never said that he regrets the movie. You went as far as to say he's not a true artist, as if you know what a true artist goes through day in and day out. An artist is allowed to have regrets, and be human.

 

[Hmarrs]

First, I'm not a fan of the movie Hulk, nor am I a Hulk fanboy. Next, you shouldn't call people a troll if you don't know what it means, which I've witness you have a tendency of using words in which don't know what it means. I'm not going to great lengths, just call them like I see them. And as you don't know what a troll is, you don't know what an artist is.

And one last thing. You're the one who overreacted to Ang Lee's comment. He wishes he had more fun with the movie, but he never said that he regrets the movie. You went as far as to say he's not a true artist, as if you know what a true artist goes through day in and day out. An artist is allowed to have regrets, and be human.

Look I'm not doing this with you.
I'm talking about the difference between true art and commercialism.
I said and I quote:
"I feel"
"In my opinion"
"I don't believe"
As far as Ang is concerned and if he caved.
Then he is not true to his art.
If he really and truly felt that way from his on personel convictions.
Then he is.
Me,I,Myself,not you or anyone else,me
I don't buy it.
Is that okay with you?
Are you not reading my post.
I never called you a Hulk fanboy.
Read it again you called me that.
I called you a Troll as in your just Trolling this thread with your insults for a response.
If it makes you feel grown to insult then by all means continue.
Try expressing without the insults.
That's maturity.

Notice I still haven't insulted you.
Why?
Because if I called it as I see it I don't think your ego could take it.t:

 

[Hmarrs]

Edit.

 

[Number 6]

I have to stay, as someone who just stumbled into this, it does come off kind of insulting. I'm the second artist person (I assume it was me, anyway), and I'm guessing this artist stuff is kind of a hot button for you, Wayne? You do seem like you're going off like a New Year's firework show about it.

That being said, the idea that an artist having regrets or ideas of altercations about his work makes him less of an artist is fairly ridiculous. Artists do that kind of stuff all the time, and it's only natural. You finish something, and almost always the next thoughts are: "Finally, it's done" followed prompted by "I wonder what I could've done different." It really is the nature of art, and to a degree, human nature I suppose. I also can't help but find your use of sentences all in these short break fairly bizarre and maybe even a little infuriating, Hmarrs, especially when you make them in a bunch of a paragraphs. This possibly had an effect on the harsh reply.

 

[Hmarrs]

I have to stay, as someone who just stumbled into this, it does come off kind of insulting. I'm the second artist person (I assume it was me, anyway), and I'm guessing this artist stuff is kind of a hot button for you, Wayne? You do seem like you're going off like a New Year's firework show about it.

That being said, the idea that an artist having regrets or ideas of altercations about his work makes him less of an artist is fairly ridiculous. Artists do that kind of stuff all the time, and it's only natural. You finish something, and almost always the next thoughts are: "Finally, it's done" followed prompted by "I wonder what I could've done different." It really is the nature of art, and to a degree, human nature I suppose. I also can't help but find your use of sentences all in these short break fairly bizarre and maybe even a little infuriating, Hmarrs, especially when you make them in a bunch of a paragraphs. This possibly had an effect on the harsh reply.

I'm posting from a phone if that may have somthing to do with it.
It's also causing me to mispell alot words as it assumes words and post them.
I can only see part of the screen.
However if this is not the case please eleborate on what you mean?
Also I never said an Artist can not have regrets or think back as to how to make things better.
I'm talking about his reasons.
If he is swayed from his beliefs based on popular opinions even though he believes otherwise.
Then I don't feel he is being true to himself or his art.
However if it is truly a matter on his own insight then of course.
The only point that I am trying to state is that.I myself personally believe his statement came from backlash not his own convictions.
No one has to agree with me.
This is just me.

 

[Number 6]

Ah, I see. After each finished sentence you have a break, but without the space in between. It may just be how you're phone formats your text. It actually does sort of make me thing of someone sending multiple text messages one right after another.

 

[Hmarrs]

I have to stay, as someone who just stumbled into this, it does come off kind of insulting. I'm the second artist person (I assume it was me, anyway), and I'm guessing this artist stuff is kind of a hot button for you, Wayne? You do seem like you're going off like a New Year's firework show about it.

That being said, the idea that an artist having regrets or ideas of altercations about his work makes him less of an artist is fairly ridiculous. Artists do that kind of stuff all the time, and it's only natural. You finish something, and almost always the next thoughts are: "Finally, it's done" followed prompted by "I wonder what I could've done different." It really is the nature of art, and to a degree, human nature I suppose. I also can't help but find your use of sentences all in these short break fairly bizarre and maybe even a little infuriating, Hmarrs, especially when you make them in a bunch of a paragraphs. This possibly had an effect on the harsh reply.

I'm posting from a phone if that may have somthing to do with it.
It's also causing me to mispell alot words as it assumes words and post them.
However please eleborate on what you mean?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I have not read the interview, just what folk have said about about it here.
So, if it was that recent, it seems like he has taken in what folk liked about the Hulk in Avengers, that he was fun in the action scenes.
Funny thing is, I didn't think that the Hulk action in Avengers was *that* different from the outstanding desert sequence in Ang's film.
That sequence *was* fun personified, it was a blast, and there was some Hulk humour in there too... the way he walks up to the tank slapping the gun turret in his hand like a teacher with the birch, about to give a spanking...biting off the missile head and spitting it out at the helicopter...his growling stare out with Ross...

It's just that the Avengers had the advantage of Hulk going up against other superheroes and an alien army.

Ang did mess up the potential of the 'Absorbing man' though, he could have had a lot of fun with that character's powers going up against Hulk, rather than the murky, short clash they have at the end.

But, he'll probably also mean just having fun with the concept overall, instead of intensely dwelling on his father and what have you.
I really liked the movie when I first saw it, but it does get bogged down for me a lot in that regard, I still love the Hulk action though, which is as much fun to watch as in the Avengers.

edit: Maybe he means he'd stick to the same type of thing, but, mix up the drama a bit, instead of being *so* intense and ponderous all the way through.

Regarding the interview, yeah the question was regarding the Hulk in Avengers, how he had the funniest moments, etc. And to be fair to Ang he said his movie was a bit serious and he would have had more fun with it. He does go into more detail about what he would do differently but I cant really remember.

Regarding the bolded, yeah, the stuff in Avengers wasnt really anything new regarding the character, we got all the funny moments and Hulk goofyness in the desert scene. Which to this day is one of my favourite action sequences in a CBM.

I recently watched Hulk again and found that the CGI did not hold up well at all. Back when it first came out I thought that the Hulk looked out of place against the live background, and on re-watching the character looked even more cartoonish and obviously superimposed. The color used for his skin was rather hideous and he looked like he was made of clay instead of flesh and bone. Hulk never looked real or even vaguely realistic in Ang Lee's film. He was always a putty-like cartoon figure that stood out harshly against every setting they put him in.

Thats funny, because I still think the CGI in the movie in general, and especially The Hulk himself, still hold up today. Not one bit of the movie looks fake to me and a lot of the effects are better than in some movies today. Not having a go at you I just it funny how vastly opinions can differ sometimes.

 

[riderishot]

@ PARKER WAYNE
is it Nessasary to attack ones opinion as you're doing to HAMRRS???? are we not ENTITLE to a opinion??
here's mine ANG LEE hulk sucks!!!!! now thats my opinion. not a rat-arse you can do about it. far as im concern ang lee hulk look like a green GIANT character from the commercial green giant. the INCREDIBLE HULK was improvement. AVENGERS hulk nailed it. until MARVEL re-design HULK facial features lets go with the flow.
personally i would chosen the 1960 Frankenstein flat top gray hulk.............
oh' by the way I AM!!! a fan.

 

[riderishot]

@ PARKER WAYNE
Troll : anyone who talk nonsense without researching, lack of knowledge of certain issues.
example gamers on N4G.COM no one knows the spec's on ps4 nor the 720 but gamers everyday TROLL on the site.


in layman trem : a troll is someone talking crap out of their you know what.
dont think Hamrrs doing such things.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm not a huge fan of either film, but I find Hulk 2003 to be the more memorable one. I don't remember much about TIH aside from bits of the final fight.

 

[Xeno]

I'm not a huge fan of either film, but I find Hulk 2003 to be the more memorable one. I don't remember much about TIH aside from bits of the final fight.

The 2003 Hulk was memorable to me for all the wrong reasons. The Hulk dogs, the hideous misuse of the Absorbing Man and Glen Talbot, the muddled attempt at a psychological examination of Banner's rage issues, Bana and Connolly's subpar acting, Nolte's overacting in the role of an ill-conceived character, a climactic battle that was anti-climactic, a villain who amounted to a pool of murky water, a plodding script....I could go on, but that's the gist of it.