TIH vs. Ang Lee's Hulk

[soundofyousick]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm
I'm not a huge fan of either film, but I find Hulk 2003 to be the more memorable one. I don't remember much about TIH aside from bits of the final fight.

The 2003 Hulk was memorable to me for all the wrong reasons. The Hulk dogs, the hideous misuse of the Absorbing Man and Glen Talbot, the muddled attempt at a psychological examination of Banner's rage issues, Bana and Connolly's subpar acting, Nolte's overacting in the role of an ill-conceived character, a climactic battle that was anti-climactic, a villain who amounted to a pool of murky water, a plodding script....I could go on, but that's the gist of it.

I agree with much of what you say(although I had no probs with the acting), but I have to say, I thought the action sequence with the Hulk dogs was a hoot, a very atmospheric scene with the dark forest, and the poodle was not ridiculous looking, as some say, yes, it is a poodle, the types of dogs that normally look ridiculous, but to turn the silly into the truly horrorshow, that is a good trick, and worked here.

and i don't know if you could read into the scene where the poodle exclusively goes for Jennifer Connoley in the car, as if it is speaking for all the poodles in the world now it's had a gamma brain boost, 'stop blasting me with hairspray and giving me stupid ****ing haircuts and shaving my belly! I'm freezin' my nuts off here!' Yes, it is usually women who do that to poodles, so i am not sexist. Yes, I know some men do also, but, the practice was started by women back in caveman days, they'd bring poodles back to the cave and shave them with sharpened hedgehogs, sh** they could've brought in a Hulk hedgehog, that would have been frickin amazing.

 

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm
I'm not a huge fan of either film, but I find Hulk 2003 to be the more memorable one. I don't remember much about TIH aside from bits of the final fight.



I agree with much of what you say(although I had no probs with the acting), but I have to say, I thought the action sequence with the Hulk dogs was a hoot, a very atmospheric scene with the dark forest, and the poodle was not ridiculous looking, as some say, yes, it is a poodle, the types of dogs that normally look ridiculous, but to turn the silly into the truly horrorshow, that is a good trick, and worked here.

and i don't know if you could read into the scene where the poodle exclusively goes for Jennifer Connoley in the car, as if it is speaking for all the poodles in the world now it's had a gamma brain boost, 'stop blasting me with hairspray and giving me stupid ****ing haircuts and shaving my belly! I'm freezin' my nuts off here!' Yes, it is usually women who do that to poodles, so i am not sexist. Yes, I know some men do also, but, the practice was started by women back in caveman days, they'd bring poodles back to the cave and shave them with sharpened hedgehogs, sh** they could've brought in a Hulk hedgehog, that would have been frickin amazing.

You quoted my post and changed my username, then launched into a bizarre rant about women in caves shaving poodles with hedgehogs. Very surreal, but I have no idea where that came from.

 

[soundofyousick]

sorry about the name thing, I copy and pasted the quotes when my post went onto the next page, for context, and your name did not copy/paste obviously, just your quote. So I mis-remembered your name when I added it, I think I had just read a post with that other person in the x-men boards so it was in my mind still.
But yes, the Hulk dogs scene is a very good action scene imo, I never understood people's problems with it, and was hoping you'd say why you didn't like it.

 

[Slushy]

Even if William Hurt was more faithful to the General Ross character, I prefer Sam Elliot's take.

 

[soundofyousick]

Even if William Hurt was more faithful to the General Ross character, I prefer Sam Elliot's take.

I felt the same way at first, but on re-watching came to realise that Sam Eliot was on *intense* mode *all the time*, so I was thinking his performance may have seemed more impressive for that reason, and that is not much reason at all really. Whereas William Hurt's performance had more of an emotional spectrum, acting like a real person would in a situation where there was conflict between family concerns and military dogma.
So, WH's take feels more realistic, and is not so much about showboating, not that SE was deliberately showboating per se, he just didn't have much of a choice but to play *intense* all the time, due to the director's wishes, and those performances can stay with people for the reason of being drilled into your brain with their in your facenessness, lol.

See, the comic book Ross was mostly an intense barker, not that interesting, or realistic.
Similar to JJonahJameson in a way, and when they went with that portrayal in the films, he was used for comedic effect. If they are gonna do JJJ in the new, more natural/realistic Spider-Man films, they are gonna have to give him a more emotional range, like they did with WH in TIH, so he can feel like a real person.

 

[Hmarrs]

K

I felt the same way at first, but on re-watching came to realise that Sam Eliot was on *intense* mode *all the time*, so I was thinking his performance may have seemed more impressive for that reason, and that is not much reason at all really. Whereas William Hurt's performance had more of an emotional spectrum, acting like a real person would in a situation where there was conflict between family concerns and military dogma.
So, WH's take feels more realistic, and is not so much about showboating, not that SE was deliberately showboating per se, he just didn't have much of a choice but to play *intense* all the time, due to the director's wishes, and those performances can stay with people for the reason of being drilled into your brain with their in your facenessness, lol.

See, the comic book Ross was mostly an intense barker, not that interesting, or realistic.
Similar to JJonahJameson in a way, and when they went with that portrayal in the films, he was used for comedic effect. If they are gonna do JJJ in the new, more natural/realistic Spider-Man films, they are gonna have to give him a more emotional range, like they did with WH in TIH, so he can feel like a real person.

You know what's funny is that I felt the some way but in reverse.
I feel that WH was more in the emotion or heat of the moment to thepoint where it was overkill somtimes WH just looked stupid with his facial expressions.
SE to me seemed more in control and more believeable as a man on a mission.
He seemed more lije a General but WH seemed like kook.
If you were in the military who would feel more confident to serve under.
Plus as an Actor whos the better actor the one who has to Ham it up to get his point across or the one that delivers with less is more.
SE came of to me off as scary at times.While WH came off crazy at best.
Talking about behaving as to real life.
Then I have to say SE was more like a real General then WH.
WH just seemed like a man having a nervous breakdown.
He did not seem like the type of man the Goverment would put all thier trust in to handle such a mission.
SE portrayal seemed more mature.

 

[soundofyousick]

K
You know what's funny is that I felt the some way but in reverse.
I feel that WH was more in the emotion or heat of the moment to thepoint where it was overkill somtimes WH just looked stupid with his facial expressions.
SE to me seemed more in control and more believeable as a man on a mission.
He seemed more lije a General but WH seemed like kook.
If you were in the military who would feel more confident to serve under.
Plus as an Actor whos the better actor the one who has to Ham it up to get his point across or the one tgat delivers with less is more.
SE ca WH me off as scary at times.
While came off crazy at best.
Talking about behaving as to real life.
Then I have to say SE was more like a real General then.WH.
WH just seemed like a man having a nervous breakdown.

Sam Eliot seemed like a guy who would not listen to reason, and would not listen to anyone else, *that* is a dangerous general to have, someone who will see nothing but his own blinkered view and lead people into chaos, the angry chaos of his own mind.
As we saw at the end of TIH, William Hurt's Ross eventually came around to see sense, *by* listening to those who disagreed with him.

Hmmars , what is the deal with you posting all the time in that haphazard way from your phone? I imagine you bumming your way around like Bill Bixby in the Hulk tv show, posting every now and again once you get a sitdown in a car.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I cannot agree with people who say WH's Ross was more faithful that SE's, the latter was much more faithful, Ross never wanted to make a weapon out of the Hulk, he wanted to protect his daughter from the montor and if anything destroy it. I liked both performances, but SE's Ross was the much more faithful to the comics.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I agree, both Rosses were handled better in the first movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I agree, both Rosses were handled better in the first movie.

Definately, the acting in general was better in Ang's movie and the characters for the most part were closer to the comics as well.

 

[soundofyousick]

I'd rather have a more compelling character in the film, even if it means they are not as faithful to the comics version. I bet there are comics out there that have moments just like the ones Liv Tyler had in TIH, along those emotional lines anyway, she came off as a better (ex)girlfriend to Bruce than Jennifer Connoley's Betty, who seemed a bit aloof.

Same with WH's Ross, he seemed like a more well rounded character, yes, they added a subplot of the army wanting to use the Hulk experiment as a potential weapon, why? Because that is what they would do in real life, you want the movie to reflect a realistic attitude so you can take it more seriously, rather than old stories that were not so forward thinking in their approach, where they just wanted to destroy the Hulk without experimenting on him.

 

[747]

I'm not particularly fond of either of the movies.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I'd rather have a more compelling character in the film, even if it means they are not as faithful to the comics version. I bet there are comics out there that have moments just like the ones Liv Tyler had in TIH, along those emotional lines anyway, she came off as a better (ex)girlfriend to Bruce than Jennifer Connoley's Betty, who seemed a bit aloof.

Same with WH's Ross, he seemed like a more well rounded character, yes, they added a subplot of the army wanting to use the Hulk experiment as a potential weapon, why? Because that is what they would do in real life, you want the movie to reflect a realistic attitude so you can take it more seriously, rather than old stories that were not so forward thinking in their approach, where they just wanted to destroy the Hulk without experimenting on him.

I agree. Jennifer Connelly was probably one of the better aspects of Hulk, but Liv Tyler and Ed Norton actually appeared to love one another. And being that the Bruce/Betty relationship is one of the few in Marvel comics that I care about, I enjoyed that far more.

 

[The Ironstar]

I have been slowing growing to liking Lee's Hulk over the years. But I love The Incredible Hulk. I enjoyed it more than both Iron Man movies, and I loved both of those. Marvel Studios really hasn't made a dud yet in my eyes.

I was furious when Norton wasn't returning as the Hulk in Avengers, but I settled down when I saw how great...no...how perfect Ruffalo was as the role of Bruce Banner/The Hulk. I got excited at the possibility of Tim Blake Nelson becoming The Leader and geeked out at the numerous references to Stark Industries throughout the film.

I'd love to see Liv return as Betty and Hurt return as Ross.

I love Ang Lee's Hulk and the approach he took and that it Nolan before Nolan.

Also like Nolan films,people were upset w/the lack of action (or kind of action).

What made y change your mind on Ang Lee's Hulk?

 

[Picard Sisko]

TIH was a poor reboot IMO.

 

[OcStat]

I don't even consider TIH a reboot. Besides the few tweaks they made to the "Sum Up the Origin" Opening Credits, it could almost play as a direct sequel. I like to watch it before Iron Man when I watch the MCU films.

And when looked at as a continuation instead of a competition...I think the films compliment each other well.

And that's enough unintentional alliteration for today.

 

[craigdbfan]

I also fit Ang Lee's Hulk within the MCU. I know it's completely unofficial but it works if you omit a few things here and there. I like to pretend that Banner changes his own origin in relation to his guilt.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'd rather have a more compelling character in the film, even if it means they are not as faithful to the comics version. I bet there are comics out there that have moments just like the ones Liv Tyler had in TIH, along those emotional lines anyway, she came off as a better (ex)girlfriend to Bruce than Jennifer Connoley's Betty, who seemed a bit aloof.

Same with WH's Ross, he seemed like a more well rounded character, yes, they added a subplot of the army wanting to use the Hulk experiment as a potential weapon, why? Because that is what they would do in real life, you want the movie to reflect a realistic attitude so you can take it more seriously, rather than old stories that were not so forward thinking in their approach, where they just wanted to destroy the Hulk without experimenting on him.

Erm, the government wanted to make Hulk a weapon in the Ang movie too, SE's Ross just disagreed with it and was more concerned about firstly, his daughter, and secondly, although just as important, protecting innocent people from this danger known as the Hulk. That sounds much more realistic of an army general to me.

 

[soundofyousick]

Erm, the government wanted to make Hulk a weapon in the Ang movie too, SE's Ross just disagreed with it and was more concerned about firstly, his daughter, and secondly, although just as important, protecting innocent people from this danger known as the Hulk. That sounds much more realistic of an army general to me.

Ok, I forgot that was a plot of the Ang movie as well. It's a pity that Ross didn't have more self-awareness though, or maybe he did and just didn't care, as of course someone as blinkered as that was the one who actually caused all the destruction by going after the Hulk like that, instead of trying to understand the hulk(or maybe he did and didn't care anyway)after all, the Hulk is depicted as only using violence in self defence.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ok, I forgot that was a plot of the Ang movie as well. It's a pity that Ross didn't have more self-awareness though, or maybe he did and just didn't care, as of course someone as blinkered as that was the one who actually caused all the destruction by going after the Hulk like that, instead of trying to understand the hulk(or maybe he did and didn't care anyway)after all, the Hulk is depicted as only using violence in self defence.

Again though this isnt correct, Ross was perfectly happy with Bruce being on the base under close observation and with letting his daughter try and help Bruce control the Hulk by digging deeper into his emotions.

It was Talbot who messed that all up by wanting to make Hulk into a weapon, hence why he makes him Hulk out and also hence why Ross gets angry when he finds this out. Once he Hulks out Bruce heads for Betty so naturally Ross wants to protect his daughter and innocent people by taking out The Hulk.

What he doesnt realise is that Hulk will only attack when attacked and just wants to get to Betty to be with her, he realises this in San Fran hence why he orders the army to stop attacking the Hulk and lets Betty go to him.

 

[soundofyousick]

It was Talbot who messed that all up by wanting to make Hulk into a weapon, hence why he makes him Hulk out and also hence why Ross gets angry when he finds this out.

What? Ross is supervising Talbot's experiment on Bruce that causes him to Hulk out in the army base. From what you are saying, he had the authority to stop such experiments and chose not to.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What? Ross is supervising Talbot's experiment on Bruce that causes him to Hulk out in the army base. From what you are saying, he had the authority to stop such experiments and chose not to.

No he didnt have the authority to stop the experiment and he wasnt monitoring it, he only became aware of the experiment once Bruce had Hulked out and was on the loose.

As Ross himself said, "NSA has handed over custody of.....the threat, to Atheon."

Betty replies "But you're head of the base, I thought you were in charge.?"

To which Ross replies "Well I dont set policy, and I still take orders.......RRRRRAAAGGGGGHHHH! Cant belive Talbot would go around me like this."

Talbot was in charge, Ross was just responsible for the army staff on the base and had to leave Bruce to Talbot and Atheon. Again, also, he didnt know of the experiment to make Bruce Hulk out until one of the army officers alerted him to the Hulk roaming around the base.

 

[Hmarrs]

Sam Eliot seemed like a guy who would not listen to reason, and would not listen to anyone else, *that* is a dangerous general to have, someone who will see nothing but his own blinkered view and lead people into chaos, the angry chaos of his own mind.
As we saw at the end of TIH, William Hurt's Ross eventually came around to see sense, *by* listening to those who disagreed with him.

Hmmars , what is the deal with you posting all the time in that haphazard way from your phone? I imagine you bumming your way around like Bill Bixby in the Hulk tv show, posting every now and again once you get a sitdown in a car.

Wow I Don't know if I should be offeneded it sounds like you called me a bumm.
What do mean by haphazard?
Also on your post.
Exaclty my point SE did not listen to reason which makes him more like the comic book version.
WHich also makes him more like a real General.

 

[soundofyousick]

No he didnt have the authority to stop the experiment and he wasnt monitoring it, he only became aware of the experiment once Bruce had Hulked out and was on the loose.

As Ross himself said, "NSA has handed over custody of.....the threat, to Atheon."

Betty replies "But you're head of the base, I thought you were in charge.?"

To which Ross replies "Well I dont set policy, and I still take orders.......RRRRRAAAGGGGGHHHH! Cant belive Talbot would go around me like this."

Talbot was in charge, Ross was just responsible for the army staff on the base and had to leave Bruce to Talbot and Atheon. Again, also, he didnt know of the experiment to make Bruce Hulk out until one of the army officers alerted him to the Hulk roaming around the base.

Fair enough, haha, I doubt things would work like that in, let's say, a religious brainwashing cult, where you have a cult leader who everyone follows unquestioningly.

 

[soundofyousick]

Wow I Don't know if I should be offeneded it sounds like you called me a bumm.
What do mean by haphazard?
Also on your post.

I was referring to the convo where someone asked you why you were posting with such strange paragraphs, not much punctuation, and lots of mis-spelling, and you answered that you were posting from your phone.
So, I posed the question whether you could *only* post from your phone in the manner of a 'Hulk'-based joke. ie whether you were on the road all the time like Banner.

bum has one 'm' btw. unless of course, you have a big bumm.

Exaclty my point SE did not listen to reason which makes him more like the comic book version.
WHich also makes him more like a real General.

You do know what the word 'reason' means, don't you? A *real* leader needs to be reasonable, and realise they can be wrong sometimes, this is why they have advisors. You know, like a *real* person, and not someone who acts like a cold calculating robot.