Batman Begins Tim Burton thought Begins was really good and more to the root of the comics...

[Doctor Baywatch]

I still think that Batman, Batman Forever and in a certain way Batman Forever are darker movies than Batman Begins.

Batman Begins is probably "grittier" and "dirtier".

 

[ultimatefan]

I still think that Batman, Batman Forever and in a certain way Batman Forever are darker movies than Batman Begins.

Batman Begins is probably "grittier" and "dirtier".

Maybe they have more black in the photography and more of the goth/expressionist architecture, but that doesn´t make them darker IMO. BR comes off to me more like a quirky bizarre comedy than a dark movie. BF had a lot of goofy stuff and the most neat "happy ending" of the series prior to B&R. Actually, in spite of all its darkness, 89 ends very happy, Bruce even got the girl, which he didn´t in any of the other movies. But, like people said, Burton pioneered in the darker portrayal of Batman and now Nolan is carrying that torch ahead and taking it to the next level.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Of course he did, and Im glad to hear him say it!

 

[NotAShrimp]

Great that Burton likes Nolan's Batman movies.
I wonder how Schumacher feels about them.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Actually, in spite of all its darkness, 89 ends very happy, Bruce even got the girl, which he didn´t in any of the other movies.

I wouldn't say that, you can see in Vicki's face at the end of 89 that she isn't too happy with Batman being more imporant to Bruce than her.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I think it's the character himself that's "darker" in Burton's films, and Forever.

Bale's Batman is just a very driven and actually quite optimistic (in that he still believes what he's doing will actually save Gotham) Batman. He's got a mind for justice, but it's quite a clear mind.

Keaton's Batman, and to an extent Kilmer's, is a truly psychologically damaged man. I never got that from Bale's. Obviously he was deeply affected by his parents' deaths, but he never seems psychotic, which Keaton's had a tendency to.

 

[GlasgowBat]

thats probably more to do with bruce being at the start of his career. just as in year one, there is a sense that bruce feels he can win his war on crime.

i beleive bale adressed this at some point, and talked about how that view of bruces changes in TDK.

i'm hoping this is indeed the case.

 

[ultimatefan]

I wouldn't say that, you can see in Vicki's face at the end of 89 that she isn't too happy with Batman being more imporant to Bruce than her.

She seems more like resigned to me, she´s still smiling and stuff. They were no longer together in BR, but that cleralry wasn´t planned in advance, Bruce explains it with a throwaway line.

 

[Joker]

i sometimes think this is how people think of Joel shumacher. Just cuz he made a movie most people disliked, all his movies are crap now....

Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. Lost Boys, Phonebooth, Tigerland...all great Shumacher movies. He just doesnt get superheroes.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. Lost Boys, Phonebooth, Tigerland...all great Shumacher movies. He just doesnt get superheroes.

Yeah, some people just don't get it, and that's fine.

Take Clooney for example. He just didn't get Batman. Maybe it had to do with Schumacher whispering into his ear at every turn, "It's just a cartoon." He said something to the effect of "Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, and he's Batman. He should be having fun, not crying over his dead parents; get over it already."

Now, you can't get any wronger than that. But Clooney, in every other respect, is near brilliant. Great actor, talented writer, director, producer. Good guy, just didn't get Batman.

 

[Spider-Bat]

I used to be back and forth with the 2 visions. For a while I was a jerk about BB 'cause I loved Batman and BR so much, and I was tired some of the new kids talking about how much Nolan's was better when Burton did a nice job too.

That just added to my negative feelings that and the feeling that some were just jumping on the band wagon. But when I first saw BB I really loved it, and when it came out on DVD I couldn't stop watching it. But then I guess in some way I felt guilty about liking it, like I was turning my back on an old friend, I know that sounds like a bit much but Batman was and still is a big deal for me, when Batman came out when I was ten I went every chance I got to see it same with BR.

But then I knew I was being stupid, I could like both and I wasn't going to argue about it with those who's small minds could do nothing but be negative. I was a jerk too for a while, I admit it, but it was a dumb period in my life.
I'm just happy Batman's back on the big screen.

And I found myself lately watching BB more than Burton's Batman.

I still love the old movies, even Batman Forever once in a while.

But I love how the new movies are closer to Batman's comic book roots.
And even though I love Keaton as Batman, it's so nice to see someone a bit younger and more in shape, someone more like the Bruce of the Comics.

I know what Burton was going for, using someone who wouldn't be suspected as Batman, but I like it much better to just go with what's in the comics. when I was a kid it didn't bug me, it was Batman and it was cool, I did kind of want someone more like the comics and that got to me more as I grew older.

Now I almost feel funny saying it but, I like the new movies better. As I said they're closer to the comics, more faithful.

Even though it's not 100% faithful, like how Ra's wasn't one of his teachers but it's not that big of a deal. Just a cool part of the story, and it's better than having the Joker be the Wayne's killer.
That always bugged me.

And I like the epic feel to BB aswell.

I still love the old movies but I've grown as a fan and so have the movies. They're better and I hope they keep going and keep their great quality.

Even if they get a new director hopefully they keep it a rule at WB to make sure the Batman movies stay serious, and faithful.

Little tweaks to the story like having Ra's being one of Bruce's teachers is fine. It's not that big of a change.

It seemed like in the old movies they always had to tie things up together, like having the villian be the one who killed the Wayne's or Two-Face killing the Graysons, and the bad guy always had to get killed at the end.

I'm glad they've grown beyond that and can have a good story and plot developement, not just a 2 hour toy commercial where the bad guy gets killed every time and so on.

Now there's more of a story and all.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

http://www.batman-on-film.com/burton-talks-batman-in-amsterdam_4-13-08.html

If any evidence is needed of how pointless the whole thing with Burtonites and Nolanites biting each others´heads off is, there it is. Nolan also said a couple times he likes Burton´s first Batman movies. Yes, it´s just fine to prefer one or another, but don´t think you´re standing for your favorite director´s POV when you viciously attack everything one did in favor of the other.

I love both versions....

 

[ultimatefan]

I think it's the character himself that's "darker" in Burton's films, and Forever.

Bale's Batman is just a very driven and actually quite optimistic (in that he still believes what he's doing will actually save Gotham) Batman. He's got a mind for justice, but it's quite a clear mind.

Keaton's Batman, and to an extent Kilmer's, is a truly psychologically damaged man. I never got that from Bale's. Obviously he was deeply affected by his parents' deaths, but he never seems psychotic, which Keaton's had a tendency to.

I don´t feel Batman has to seem psychotic to be pretty dark. The conflict between someone with truly noble and heroic aspiration and his inner demons is very dark IMO. It´s a good man that could at some point fall into the abyss. It´s a scarier notion and in many ways, darker than someone who seems just dead inside already or kinda psychotic.

 

[theMan-Bat]

thats probably more to do with bruce being at the start of his career. just as in year one, there is a sense that bruce feels he can win his war on crime.

That's how I view Batman Begins as well, just like Batman in Frank Miller's Batman Year One. "The 25 year old Batman is very different from the Batman were accustom it. He's very young, very enthusiastic. He may be Batman at his most joyful. He's a young man who's waited 18 years to get to work, and now he's getting to work. He's also a Batman who makes a lot of mistakes. He's learning how to make it work. It's a story about a man who charges out thinking he can change the world on his own and learns that he can't." - Frank Miller.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Maybe they have more black in the photography and more of the goth/expressionist architecture, but that doesn´t make them darker IMO. BR comes off to me more like a quirky bizarre comedy than a dark movie. BF had a lot of goofy stuff and the most neat "happy ending" of the series prior to B&R. Actually, in spite of all its darkness, 89 ends very happy, Bruce even got the girl, which he didn´t in any of the other movies. But, like people said, Burton pioneered in the darker portrayal of Batman and now Nolan is carrying that torch ahead and taking it to the next level.

It was quirky and bizarre but I still see Returns as the darkest of the Batman films and far more than just in the gothic look. The Penguin is a deformed individual who uses that deformity to seek acceptance as a sheep in wolf's clothing. At the last act of Returns his plan is to kill every child in Gotham. In the end his plan fails as he falls over dead and is dragged to the bottom of the ocean. Selina Kyle realizes she cannot live a fairy tale life with Bruce Wayne, thus she electrocutes herself and her boss. Just scratching the surface here and that's not a very happy ending.

In Begins, it ends with Bruce saving the day(something he did not even manage to do in BR) and kissing the girl, a far lighter note. Bruce's deepest struggle in Begins was in a flashback, dealing with whether or not he should kill Chill. But I'd like to know how you view Begins as darker, please explain.

 

[Bat Attack]

No, please dont make this a Nolan vs. Burton thing!!

 

[vincenizzle]

i still think tim burton's batman is a farce, and nicholson was overrated. Cheers to nolan for making BB as it is leagues ahead of its predecesors

 

[El Payaso]

i still think tim burton's batman is a farce, and nicholson was overrated. Cheers to nolan for making BB as it is leagues ahead of its predecesors

Burton movies were both successful and opened the way for the rest, Nolan amongst them. Cheers to an effort from you to elaborate your arguments and try to have a perspective in order to appreciate previous movies and honest opinions.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Oh god... another thread goes down the 'Burton vs. Nolan' debate alley

Tim Burton (my favorite director) loves Nolan's movies (as do i) and so really... thats good enough for me!!

 

[ultimatefan]

It was quirky and bizarre but I still see Returns as the darkest of the Batman films and far more than just in the gothic look. The Penguin is a deformed individual who uses that deformity to seek acceptance as a sheep in wolf's clothing. At the last act of Returns his plan is to kill every child in Gotham. In the end his plan fails as he falls over dead and is dragged to the bottom of the ocean. Selina Kyle realizes she cannot live a fairy tale life with Bruce Wayne, thus she electrocutes herself and her boss. Just scratching the surface here and that's not a very happy ending.

In Begins, it ends with Bruce saving the day(something he did not even manage to do in BR) and kissing the girl, a far lighter note. Bruce's deepest struggle in Begins was in a flashback, dealing with whether or not he should kill Chill. But I'd like to know how you view Begins as darker, please explain.

a) Selina Kyle wasn´t dead in the end of BR. We clearly see Catwoman in the last frame of the movie.
b) Bruce kissed the girl in BB, but she left him because she couldn´t deal with his Batman identity. It wasn´t a happy ending for him.
c) Batman saved the day by stopping Penguin in BR.
d) Bruce´s struggle was much more than that, it was about dealing with his feelings of guilt over the death of his parents and especially his fear of his own anger getting outta hand, which is still not something fully resolved.
e) Please, I don´t want this to turn into yet another Nolan vs. Burton argument. Burton´s approach has his qualities, and I´ll always have a soft spot for his first Batman movie.

 

[ultimatefan]

i still think tim burton's batman is a farce, and nicholson was overrated. Cheers to nolan for making BB as it is leagues ahead of its predecesors

Even if I prefer Nolan´s take, I´ll always acknowledge Burton opened the way for the darker treatment of Batman.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

Thank God. An intelligent discussion about 89 v. BB. I personally favor BB over 89, but 89 has some elements to it that BB just can't quite reach. I can't quite place my finger on it... but there is just something so much more dark about the Burton films. I think it's the fantasy element. The things used in BB are almost all possible, maybe even plausible. Whereas 89 is more of a comic book film, in the strictest sense of the word. Burton sort of did away with reality. Even Schumacher deserves credit here, if not for anything else, than at least for allowing BB to become a reality. Just imagine if he was allowed to continue with the Batman franchise. *shudder*

 

[vincenizzle]

Burton movies were both successful and opened the way for the rest, Nolan amongst them. Cheers to an effort from you to elaborate your arguments and try to have a perspective in order to appreciate previous movies and honest opinions.

haha, i knew some fanboy with delicate sensibilities would react this way. hahah. thanks buddy! of course, i could care less about what B89 did for the franchise or who it opened doors for. It's still completely ridiculous, i mean, cmon, batman was running AWAY from the villians. thats just weak.
and besides i was only talking about B89, Batman Returns is far better but still has it cheesy moments. and i do agree that Burton's films were "darker" but it's more in that romantic sense that burton is known for, and once you've seen a few of burton's movies they mostly have that dark romanticism about them and for me it takes away from b89 and returns. BB feels more original in that sense.

 

[El Payaso]

haha, i knew some fanboy with delicate sensibilities would react this way.

haha as if we didn't know some troll would be unable to resist and try to put some cheap flame on a civil discussion.

 

[Cain]

eh, there's one at every party t: