Titans (New Series) Official Thread

[Assassin]

but he stopped using the weapons get over it.

 

[Aristotle]

That's not the point. Making him "Red Arrow" flushes years of character development and independence down the toilet. He was always the guy we wished Dick Grayson would be. He stepped out of the shadow, he left Ollie completely behind, except for the familial bond, he rejected the idea of becoming Ollie's successor, he became his own man.

He actually SPECIFICALLY rejected the idea of ever becoming "Red Arrow" in Devin Grayson's Arsenal miniseries, one of the only decent pieces of writing she's ever done.

But no, Brad Meltzer wanted Green Arrow on the team, without having to be faithful to characterization, so he just took Roy, a lesser known character, scrapped his character, and made him a caricature of what Ollie was BEFORE Hard-Traveling Heroes.

 

[Assassin]

yeaaa its brad's fault.

 

[Aristotle]

Um...didn't he write that series?

Please, please, please, don't be that guy who randomly blames DiDio for it.

 

[Assassin]

um, have you ever read kingdom come?

 

[Assassin]

And BTW i'd rather have a roster of new faces like Brads than this NWACP approved one we have now. Seriously, are there any black superheros not on the team? Superman go die again so steel can join ohh Dwayne

 

[Aristotle]

um, have you ever read kingdom come?

Yes, I have. Kingdom Come didn't mandate that Roy Harper become Red Arrow. Brad Meltzer did that all by himself, flying directly in the face of what Roy's previous character development had set down.

 

[Aristotle]

And BTW i'd rather have a roster of new faces like Brads than this NWACP approved one we have now. Seriously, are there any black superheros not on the team? Superman go die again so steel can join ohh Dwayne

NWACP? That's not a thing. It doesn't even...exist.

What are you gonna whine about next, miscegenation?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

um, have you ever read kingdom come?

Yes, I have. Kingdom Come didn't mandate that Roy Harper become Red Arrow. Brad Meltzer did that all by himself, flying directly in the face of what Roy's previous character development had set down.

Kingdom Come's an Elseworld anyway. Nothing in there has to happen, or even should happen. If it did, we would all be looking forward to Batman being an old cripple and Magog terrorizing humanity at the vanguard of a bunch of reckless new heroes. JSA's current arc is hammering in our heads how not like the Kingdom Come reality New Earth is, in fact.

But you are Ass and obliviousness is your game.

 

[Stealth_Prime]

I have to agree with The Corpulent, Elseword's is just a DC version of Marvels What if series...

Its not considered part of the cannon (real) DC universe; just a sneak peak in another universe (so to speak) of the same characters but a different take on their usage.

Besides, didn't DC undergo another revamp after Infinite Crisis?

 

[Assassin]

I ment NAACP.

And Corp, I was pointing out that Brad didnt invent him. He didnt create Red Arrow.

 

[WompuM]

No he didnt. I DID.

 

[Assassin]

Mark? is that you? Loved your Flash run

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wouldn't it technically be Ross? I thought Waid was just his errand-boy on Kingdom Come.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I read Titans #15, a.k.a. "the Tempest issue." Right off the bat, three major points that were in no way addressed:

1) How is Garth normal again when, last we saw him, he was unable to breathe underwater and his hair was graying?

2) How the f*** is Slizzath just randomly out and about? Tempest was supposed to have sealed him away for all eternity when he gained all his spiffy post-Aqualad powers, so it's kind of a big deal that he's, y'know, not sealed away anymore.

3) Why is Letifos--who never met the Aquanewb, as far as I recall--explaining stuff about him to Garth--who did meet and interact with the Aquanewb for several issues of Williams' run on Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis?

These three things are huge oversights that annoyed me in the issue. Other than those, though, it was a pretty decent issue. I liked that Slizzath, a necromancer, killed himself to embrace the Black Lanterns' call. That's such a perfect superhero-comic plot point. I like that Garth ultimately embraces his new role as king of Atlantis. It makes sense that he would feel a duty to fulfill Aquaman's role in his absence, and it makes even more sense that he'd do so with great trepidation--even Aquaman himself took forever to really accept the fact that the Atlanteans looked to him for leadership, whether he was king in title or not.

Sucks about Dolphin and Cerdian but, eh, who didn't see that coming? I swear, the Aquaman family has been touched by death more than any other superhero family ever--the human Arthur Curry, Arthur Jr. (actually Arthur III), Atlanna, Tula, Porm, Kako, Vulko, Koryak, and now Dolphin and Cerdian. It's pretty ludicrous, really.

 

[hippie_hunter]

1) How is Garth normal again when, last we saw him, he was unable to breathe underwater and his hair was graying?

It's consistent with Garth's appearance in Final Crisis in which he was normal. Grant Morrison undid what happened to him in Sword of Atlantis with no reason whatsoever.

2) How the f*** is Slizzath just randomly out and about? Tempest was supposed to have sealed him away for all eternity when he gained all his spiffy post-Aqualad powers, so it's kind of a big deal that he's, y'know, not sealed away anymore.

Not explained.

3) Why is Letifos--who never met the Aquanewb, as far as I recall--explaining stuff about him to Garth--who did meet and interact with the Aquanewb for several issues of Williams' run on Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis?

To probably explain for the reader why Aquanewb never took up his predecessor's role is my guess.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Okay, so the f***-up on #1 is shifted from Krul to Morrison. #3's understandable but could've been structured a lot better so it didn't seem like Garth had amnesia or something.

It occurred to me that Garth could potentially be faced by both Tula and Dolphin in Blackest Night. That'd be seriously f***ed up. Which would probably make it a pretty interesting story.

I hope whenever Aquaman gets started again, they deal with some of the repercussions for Atlantis. After the Spectre and Sub Diego's restoration, there should be Sub Diegoans and Atlanteans both rebuilding Atlantis and resettling there. There's some good drama there if they're not forgotten about or treated as solely Atlanteans.

 

[BrianWilly]

My theory/hope when I read it was that the person we saw during Sword of Atlantis was not actually Tempest, but just an imposter.

Think about it. What if Garth is just now returning from wherever he was looking for Dolphin and Cerdian all this time, ever since the Spectre attacked in Infinite Crisis? Sure, he would've had to have been gone for almost two years comic-time, but it makes sense with him appearing in Scotland during Final Crisis instead of on an alien ship, it's consistent with all his dialogue here, and it explains why Letifos would be telling Garth about AJ despite the fact that she hasn't actually met AJ before, while he "supposedly" has. And the white-haired, non-magical guy who "returned" back in SoA and couldn't even breathe water? Not actually Garth. Merely some crazy surface hobo -- possibly Alan Moore -- who thought he was Garth and ended up being abducted by aliens for his trouble.

Guys it makes perfect sense.

Anyway...Aquanewb couldn't ever become King of Atlantis, could he? He's not in the royal line. I have to ask, because it's not like Atlantis hasn't come up with some pretty dumbtarded political dickery before.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Aside from Slizzath appearing out of no where, what bothered me most was how fast his appearance was. It was like "Hey guess what nephew...I'm BACK! Now...KILL ME!!!" and then boom, he dies.

The Letifos thing doesn't bother me because in all this time she could've met Aquanewb off-panel and such. I really hope it is explained how Garth got his powers back since apparently in Final Crisis he was back to normal.

Man there is so much explaining needed for the crap DC has put the Aqua-family through these past few years...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

My theory/hope when I read it was that the person we saw during Sword of Atlantis was not actually Tempest, but just an imposter.

Think about it. What if Garth is just now returning from wherever he was looking for Dolphin and Cerdian all this time, ever since the Spectre attacked in Infinite Crisis? Sure, he would've had to have been gone for almost two years comic-time, but it makes sense with him appearing in Scotland during Final Crisis instead of on an alien ship, it's consistent with all his dialogue here, and it explains why Letifos would be telling Garth about AJ despite the fact that she hasn't actually met AJ before, while he "supposedly" has. And the white-haired, non-magical guy who "returned" back in SoA and couldn't even breathe water? Not actually Garth. Merely some crazy surface hobo -- possibly Alan Moore -- who thought he was Garth and ended up being abducted by aliens for his trouble.

Guys it makes perfect sense.

Anyway...Aquanewb couldn't ever become King of Atlantis, could he? He's not in the royal line. I have to ask, because it's not like Atlantis hasn't come up with some pretty dumbtarded political dickery before.

I'm personally going with the idea that SoA Garth's encounter with the Viathans involved some magical/sci fi f***wittery that screwed up his memory while restoring his body, then spat him out into the ocean with no memory of them and his overriding desire to find Dolphin and Cerdian took over from there. We never got to see any of it after he got into the Viathan ship, after all, and it wouldn't be the first time a hero was whisked away to an alternate dimension and returned a little loopy.

The Letifos telling him of Joseph thing actually makes sense too, since he left Joe out in the ocean and Joe went to Atlantis at the end of the series, after Garth had already left on the Viathan ship. The fact that she refers to Joe as just a "stranger" calling himself Aquaman shows more that she didn't know much about him rather than Garth's knowledge of him.

Of course, rereading those last few SoA issues makes me wonder about the Narwhal/Koryak connection again, which we'll probably never find out about.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Of course, rereading those last few SoA issues makes me wonder about the Narwhal/Koryak connection again, which we'll probably never find out about.

Man, I was looking forward to so much Tad was setting up. Ok, the Babe Squad was a bad thing...but I'm sure some redemption would've been found with them later on. But everything else to me was solid. I think too many fanboys couldn't adjust to McManus' art style so they easily dismissed Tad's story since Orin was killed off (even though it was to bring him back in an awesome way ).