The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[The Joker_1000]

great point you skin you knee in recess today?

Yep, and it really hurt.

 

[The Shape]

I'm just saying, he has no experience himself so he has no right to judge Heath Ledger so harshly in the role.

Damn! Forgot the ignore button again!

Why would you ignor me for questioning you? You're just as irrational as the Harmonica guy.

Anyway, your logic makes no sense. Wiht your logic, we couldn't praise him for his acting ability because we're not actors...

 

[The Battousai]

Thanks.

It's just one of those things that's subjective. But I think there's a difference between your comparison of an albino, and someone with facial scars. Imagine someone chalk white, all over. Like a living corpse. Albinos are pale, I'm imagining someone plain white.

A full-body deformity like that, in my opinion, it isn't equal, visually, to the scars on his cheeks. Which, you must admist, in some images, are barely visible. For example, here:

I'll put it this way. Permawhite, you would notice that from across a room, in a crowd, what have you. Can you really say the same for the cut smile? I think the fact that the cops don't even notice him right in front of them at the funeral says something about their noticeability.

And, again, thanks for being civil about all this. Sometimes it seems we're the only ones

I think you and Solidus just touched on something that I've been pondering for a while (forgive me for the length )


Personally, I don't think the issue is in the appearance of either "bleached" skin or disfiguring scars - that it lies within the resulting psychosis as a result of either state's birth.


The traditional origin

When he was bleached, his state of mind cracked after seeing himself in the mirror - what had become of him. He saw what any normal person would see: a freak. The only difference, however, is that something suddenly clicked. A light bulb went on inside of his head and he saw the world through new eyes. Not only did he see himself as beautiful, but the chaos of the world - the big Joke.

In this case, it was realizing the results of the disfiguring event that caused his mind to crack - or, from his p.o.v., caused his eyes to open.


"Unclear" TDK origin

From what we can gather, this new Joker has two disfiguring scars: a clean, upward-curling cut in his right cheek, and a messy, "bubbly-looking" scar on his left. Judging from this, we can assume that one of the scars was given to him by outside forces.

It is at this point that he may have changed; become twisted. Like the traditional origin, it seems to have taken a traumatic event to cause him to crack. But, unlike that origin, it may have been simply the event that did this and not seeing what he looks like in a reflection.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to start calling himself The Joker just yet, but that his mind has changed in a similar fashion. Though, upon seeing his reflection some time after this - as he most likely had done - rather than detest this freak looking back at him, he embraces it. In fact, he seems to have made it even better (in his eyes) by completing that permanent smile etched into the flesh on his face. He sees a clown smiling back at him, and he must have be laughing at the Joke at this point...

But it doesn't end there - he completes the image by not only enhancing his "perfect smile" by smearing red along its length, but by painting this "enhancement" upon a white canvas in order, of course, to make it as vibrant as possible.

And what's a clown without something around the eyes? What stands out better than anything else against white? Hwy, black, of course

- - - - - - - -

To me, the core of the character is in his descent (or ascent ) into insanity and his view of both himself and the world around him. Because of this, the Joker in TDK shares with his comic-book counterpart the most basic essence of the Joker.

And the essential aspect of a character, in my honest opinion, is the most important thing to get right.

 

[The Shape]

Amen.

 

[CaptainClown]

I think another deformity to add that is very subtle that many people might not consider is his limp walk. I don't know if that was meant to be intentional as a part of his back story or added for the sake of giving him a signature walk, but I would like to throw that in as a possibility of something tragic happening before

 

[The Joker_1000]

Why would you ignor me for questioning you? You're just as irrational as the Harmonica guy.

Anyway, your logic makes no sense. Wiht your logic, we couldn't praise him for his acting ability because we're not actors...

I'm not ignoring your for that, I'm just trying to avoid any type of argument with you.

I'm saying, he has no reason to judge him so harshly because he has no experience. That doesn't mean we can't praise him.

 

[CaptainClown]

Why would you ignor me for questioning you? You're just as irrational as the Harmonica guy.

Anyway, your logic makes no sense. Wiht your logic, we couldn't praise him for his acting ability because we're not actors...

Ya. I don't like that argument
"lets see you make a better movie"
I almost hate that argument as much as
"NOLANS UNIVERSE IS ALL ABOUT REALISM! ITS OK NOLAN DID IT BECAUSE ITS REALISTIC!"

 

[The Shape]

I think another deformity to add that is very subtle that many people might not consider is his limp walk. I don't know if that was meant to be intentional as a part of his back story or added for the sake of giving him a signature walk, but I would like to throw that in as a possibility of something tragic happening before

I really think his limp walk in only truly evident after the truck flip, in which he was probably injured. He doesn't have it in the prologue, although he does have these Jokerish movements.

 

[Iridescent]

I'm not ignoring your for that, I'm just trying to avoid any type of argument with you.

I'm saying, he has no reason to judge him so harshly because he has no experience. That doesn't mean we can't praise him.

Bummer! I totally forgot about the bold font/logic making button...

What I'm saying, is that you have no reason to judge him so well because you have (presumably) no experience. At least not in a hollywood multimillion dollar comic book film. It doesn't mean you can't slate him.

That is all.

 

[CaptainClown]

I really think his limp walk in only truly evident after the truck flip, in which he was probably injured. He doesn't have it in the prologue, although he does have these Jokerish movements.

I don't know in the prologue I noticed it and it was the first thing that caught my attention.

The weird hop limp as he moved. The bootleg you can't see it, but if you saw the IMAX it is much more evident

 

[The Joker_1000]

Bummer! I totally forgot about the bold font/logic making button...

What I'm saying, is that you have no reason to judge him so well because you have (presumably) no experience. At least not in a hollywood multimillion dollar comic book film.

That is all.

Like I said, he shouldn't be judging him harshly, especially since he hasn't seen the movie.

 

[Mister J]

so says the mighty mister j

If you're not a hot chick, wearing a low cut top, there's really no need to bow.

mister J's kung fu is STRONG!t:

I'm more of a disciple of Aikido , but I'm appreciative nonetheless.

I suppose I could reason that, if Joker is indeed simply applying makeup, that Nolan did it to "make up" for the microwave emmitter. It sounds farfetched but hear me out: A lot of reviews criticized the logical fallacies surrounding the microwave emitter. Perhaps Nolan wanted to remind the critics that he's still into injecting his movies with a good dose of versimilitude.

I don't think Nolan would be that bothered by critical analysis as to alter his initial vision. He says the Joker card at the end of Begins was simply a nod to past continuity, but I believe the wheels were somewhat turning then. I'm willing to give him credit enough, as a professional, to see this use of creative license as a grand metaphor for character dynamics that have been expressed in other ways. I don't like it, but I certainly want to see how it unfolds.

 

[The Shape]

I don't know in the prologue I noticed it and it was the first thing that caught my attention.

The weird hop limp as he moved. The bootleg you can't see it, but if you saw the IMAX it is much more evident

I too saw it in IMAX, and only noticed something when he was humping into the bus. Other than that, walking up to the bak and inside the bank, he looked relatively normal.

 

[The Guard]

Okay, listen carefully: The dance scene was an advertisment for Prince!

No it wasn't...it was Joker dancing to a Prince song on the soundtrack.

The Joker in Batman 89 would nto dance to something like that.

Except for when he danced while he shot Grissom. Danced with Vicki's picture...etc, etc, etc...

Maybe in the 1960s, maybe when he was doing surf contests and hiding people in dustbins. But not when he was trying to be cultured and refined.

He wasn't actually cultured and refined. That was the joke. He was a twisted version of an artist. Cultured men don't destroy other art.

 

[NoName86]

I don't know in the prologue I noticed it and it was the first thing that caught my attention.

The weird hop limp as he moved. The bootleg you can't see it, but if you saw the IMAX it is much more evident

Yea I agree, it is really evident when he is walking back over to the bus after he shot the goon that drove that bus and walked over to grab the last bag of money.

 

[BatSpider]

I don't know in the prologue I noticed it and it was the first thing that caught my attention.

The weird hop limp as he moved. The bootleg you can't see it, but if you saw the IMAX it is much more evident

Maybe its his style, like the poster of him writing the WSS wording

 

[Iridescent]

Like I said, he shouldn't be judging him harshly, especially since he hasn't seen the movie.

Well why can't he say that you shouldn't be judging him so well, especially since you haven't seen the movie?

 

[Closerframe]

Even though it's obvious the Joker isn't bleached I don't rule out the possibility that he will bleached before the movie concludes. Nolan has stated that this is the rise of the Joker, and through pics we can determine the Joker goes through some serious evolutions throughout the entire movie. While wearing the make up for to long could force the make up to fuss together with his skin thus making him bleached.

 

[ronny]

Oh, but why does he have to "crack" and suddenly become evil? It's just shallow to go nuts because suddenly you're ugly. Batman Black and White made it slightly more tolerable but I still cannot get over how stupid it is.
It's all an accident, everything he does is basically to compensate for the fact that he had a bad day and now dresses in purple and uses stupid gag weapons. With Batman I could understand it, he has the funds to learn how to exact his revenge and, more imporantly, he didn't suffer the trite "Big industrial accident creates superhero/villain". He choses to be Batman and over time Batman filled the void that was left when his parents got shot up.
But The Joker apparently had no choice, he goes from family man to crazed psycho in one day. And it stinks. It humanises him, makes him weak, makes him almost sympathetic (Or perhaps more worthy of contempt, I can never figure that one out) and basically tells the reader that he is only around because he took a tumble into some peculiar bubbling liquid. Whilst dressed in a costume that is utterly absurd. And running from a man who, later on, he will show no fear of whatsoever. It doesn't add up. Because it basically tries to convince you that evil on that level is pcked up suddenly and without warning. No, that's called "temporary insanity". There's a difference between being upset that you look like a bowl of cocaine and being so vile that most people in the world fear you. That level of sickness and violence does not just come to any old person when their wife dies or they're forced into a robbery or they have a sudden skin complaint.
Basically, the idea that The Joker is an absolute works fine. I believe we will be getting some bleached skin and (because of that) maybe even see him poison a few people.
Just keep that damn Red Hood nonsense out of it. If The Ledger Joker fell in, fine, I'd love that. The Joker builds himself up and then takes the ultimate step, fully becoming this monster. He lures Batman and the cops to this obvious robbery and then with a smile and a laugh jumps right into the chemicals.
If they were to portray the bleaching as part of an evolution that would be fine, it's not that whole thing I've got the problem with. It's the idea that he was upset by the results or that he suddenly snapped. Or maybe I just despise the ludicrous costume they had him wear.

 

[CaptainClown]

I too saw it in IMAX, and only noticed something when he was humping into the bus. Other than that, walking up to the bak and inside the bank, he looked relatively normal.

Well he was also in disguise. He probably was trying to not do it.

Yea I agree, it is really evident when he is walking back over to the bus after he shot the goon that drove that bus and walked over to grab the last bag of money.

Ya, So I have a feeling that something caused him to walk like that. I think that would be directly linked to his scars and probably his mental state.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Even though it's obvious the Joker isn't bleached I don't rule out the possibility that he will bleached before the movie concludes. Nolan has stated that this is the rise of the Joker, and through pics we can determine the Joker goes through some serious evolutions throughout the entire movie. While wearing the make up for to long could force the make up to fuss together with his skin thus making him bleached.

I hope you're right.

 

[Iridescent]

I too saw it in IMAX, and only noticed something when he was humping into the bus. Other than that, walking up to the bak and inside the bank, he looked relatively normal.

LOL...

Relative to what?!

 

[boroboro]

Is it just me that thinks that once we see the movie, somehow everyone will be pretty pleased with his appearance and how it came out to be?

 

[CaptainClown]

Is it just me that thinks that once we see the movie, somehow everyone will be pretty pleased with his appearance and how it came out to be?

Nah, the purists can't get over how he looks. Generally people seem to be very pleased.

 

[The Shape]

LOL...

Relative to what?!

I was speaking of his walk? Before he is unmasked?