The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[regwec]

The whole premise depends on Batman acting out of character, though, as the story spirals out of Batman's acceptance of the inevitability of his part in mortality and murder.

 

[itsthebatman]

I'll have to take a look at how he laughed, oddly enough.

I can see your explanation working if he gives one of those "heh, that was good one old chum!" type of laughs. But if it was one of those hysterical knee-slapping laughs...then no. Batman, I do not excuse that behavior.

Jeez, you'd better ring him and give out. He needs a stern talking to.

 

[itsthebatman]

The whole premise depends on Batman acting out of character, though, as the story spirals out of Batman's acceptance of the inevitability of his part in mortality and murder.

This acceptance is something he has to wrestle with by deciding not to kill Joker. But not killing is his 'one rule', no? Are you saying Batman is out-of-character in the whole story? I don't get it.

 

[regwec]

I don't think he suffers turmoil over his "one rule" during the story, which is more or less an invocation of moral frameworks in the face of adversity. But he does begin the story with the belief that he is destined to break his code and murder The Joker- or die at his enemy's hands. This means That Batman is not the uncomprimising figure we expect, for the duration of the story, and that he is seeking reconciliation and redress of some sort with his old adversary, and the final few frames are less jarring with that in mind.

 

[itsthebatman]

He then ends the story with Joker rejecting his attempt at reconciliation, which leaves him right where he started, locked in the path of kill or be killed. Or do you think he has now enough resolve that, if he will not kill Joker after a day like this, he is strong enough to never kill him?

 

[inflames]

I got an idea, why don't we actually watch the movie.

 

[capt. slaughter]

this may be off topic but i was looking to buy either the killing joke or the long halloween any suggestions????

 

[nickyg641]

I got an idea, why don't we actually watch the movie.

Wanna take bets on how long this post goes before it's deleted?

 

[inflames]

Wanna take bets on how long this post goes before it's deleted?

what the...what the heck is your problem?

 

[itsthebatman]

I got an idea, why don't we actually watch the movie.

We were discussing The Killing Joke, not TDK.

 

[inflames]

We were discussing The Killing Joke, not TDK.

So instead of just state that I get hated on? christ this just isnt my day

 

[itsthebatman]

this may be off topic but i was looking to buy either the killing joke or the long halloween any suggestions????

Buy both. And The Man Who Laughs. And Dark Victory. Read TMWL, TLH, and DV in that order, then TKJ.
Yes, yes, I know multi-quote is my friend.

 

[itsthebatman]

So instead of just state that I get hated on? christ this just isnt my day

I did just state that, that was my first reply to your post.

 

[Crook]

He then ends the story with Joker rejecting his attempt at reconciliation, which leaves him right where he started, locked in the path of kill or be killed. Or do you think he has now enough resolve that, if he will not kill Joker after a day like this, he is strong enough to never kill him?

Probably the latter.

Though you bring a point. Them laughing together does suggest a certain understanding between the two, but at the end of the day, Joker says he'll never trust anyone enough to rehabilitate him. But I guess....the understanding is there will be no understanding?

this may be off topic but i was looking to buy either the killing joke or the long halloween any suggestions????

I'd say get both, but TLH is better.

 

[capt. slaughter]

Buy both. And The Man Who Laughs. And Dark Victory. Read TMWL, TLH, and DV in that order, then TKJ.
Yes, yes, I know multi-quote is my friend.

k definetly will have to check those out. thanks

 

[nickyg641]

So instead of just state that I get hated on? christ this just isnt my day

You pop into a thread and post a sarcastic comment (one that we invariably have heard every few pages, too) without paying any attention whatsoever to what they were discussing.

 

[inflames]

I did just state that, that was my first reply to your post.

yea, sorry I didn't mean you...it's just been the worst day ever

 

[itsthebatman]

Probably the latter.

Though you bring a point. Them laughing together does suggest a certain understanding between the two, but at the end of the day, Joker says he'll never trust anyone enough to rehabilitate him. But I guess....the understanding is there will be no understanding?

That's always what I've got out of it.
This is what I love about the Hype - reasonable discussion with sensible fellows, that makes me think in new ways about comics I've read a hundred times. Cheers, Crook and Reg.

 

[Superhobo]

I'd say get both, but TLH is better.

 

[Superhobo]

yea, sorry I didn't mean you...it's just been the worst day ever

You're a poster of little substance - rarely do your messages add anything to a thread, besides constant complaining over the length of certain members' posts, and their use of polysyllabic words.

Or, posts like that.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Donald Rumsfeld? Is that you?

That's a known unknown.

That is a genuinely brilliant retort. So it's not Rumsfeld, then.

t:

I've had the chance to reread it, and I'm gonna have to agree with those that "hate" the ending. I mean, I totally get why Bats is laughing and it's significance, but it truly is so out-of-character that I really can't see it happening.

The fact that it was completely out of character, and thrown in at the very end is what makes it so shocking and brilliant. It makes you think of what Batman must be going through mentally in order to just snap and for the first time think that something the Joker said was funny.

The laugh they share is always going to be this dirty little secret between them, which Batman will never admit to and Joker will never forget, it is the consummation of their absurd relationship.

The whole premise depends on Batman acting out of character, though, as the story spirals out of Batman's acceptance of the inevitability of his part in mortality and murder.

Remember the one and only time Batman laughed in BTAS? And how damn creepy it was that even HQ commented on the fact? Having such a singularly strange out of character action changes the entire nature of the story. In BTAS it helped make the "Mad Love" episode iconic and memorable, his laugh was not only the crux of the plot but a giant spotlight on the ridiculous nature of the HQ/Joker romance. It also showed how tragically HQ always ended up as a pawn in the hands of the stronger men around her, whether it was Joker slapping her around, or Batman laughing at her, no matter how truly brilliant and perfect her plans were the criticisms of others stopped her in her tracks.

 

[Banquet]

t:




The fact that it was completely out of character, and thrown in at the very end is what makes it so shocking and brilliant. It makes you think of what Batman must be going through mentally in order to just snap and for the first time think that something the Joker said was funny.

The laugh they share is always going to be this dirty little secret between them, which Batman will never admit to and Joker will never forget, it is the consummation of their absurd relationship.

I wouldn't call Batman laughing as "snapping" exactly. I mean when Batman snaps you know it, and he snapped a few times at the Joker's expense (like when he was exposed to scarecrow's fear toxin). Batman's laugh in TKJ was, to me, admitting that he would never bring the Joker to sanity.

In the beginning he was trying to talk sense to him. His attempt to help the Joker came from a sense of guilt over Joker's misplaced blame for his accident. The Joker tries to make him responsible for it and Batman seemed to take the bait at first.

At the end, after the Joker's little story, he realized the Joker's blame didn't matter, that he could do nothing for him; he refuses help. When Batman laughed at the end it was like he was releasing that guilt, and letting go of his responsiblity over the Joker's fate. It was uncharacteristic and amazing not just because Batman supposeably never laughs, but also because he never lets go of responsiblity. At least, that's how I saw it.

 

[magus]

t:


Remember the one and only time Batman laughed in BTAS? And how damn creepy it was that even HQ commented on the fact? Having such a singularly strange out of character action changes the entire nature of the story. In BTAS it helped make the "Mad Love" episode iconic and memorable, his laugh was not only the crux of the plot but a giant spotlight on the ridiculous nature of the HQ/Joker romance. It also showed how tragically HQ always ended up as a pawn in the hands of the stronger men around her, whether it was Joker slapping her around, or Batman laughing at her, no matter how truly brilliant and perfect her plans were the criticisms of others stopped her in her tracks.

That is one of my favorite episodes and was the first thing I thought of when Batman's laughing was brought up. His laugh and HQ's reaction were both perfect. Prior to that episode we only saw Batman let out an occasional one-breath "heh" in response to Alfred/Dick's jokes, so his laughing was pretty monumental in "Mad Love".

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I wouldn't call Batman laughing as "snapping" exactly. I mean when Batman snaps you know it, and he snapped a few times at the Joker's expense (like when he was exposed to scarecrow's fear toxin). Batman's laugh in TKJ was, to me, admitting that he would never bring the Joker to sanity.

In the beginning he was trying to talk sense to him. His attempt to help the Joker came from a sense of guilt over Joker's misplaced blame for his accident. The Joker tries to make him responsible for it and Batman seemed to take the bait at first.

At the end, after the Joker's little story, he realized the Joker's blame didn't matter, that he could do nothing for him; he refuses help. When Batman laughed at the end it was like he was releasing that guilt, and letting go of his responsiblity over the Joker's fate. It was uncharacteristic and amazing not just because Batman supposeably never laughs, but also because he never lets go of responsiblity. At least, that's how I saw it.

I like that interpretation. But I think Batman needs to "snap" in order to laugh. He's just wound up so tight. Not snap as in "go insane and kill everyone", just mentally loose it for a moment, you know when you get so stressed out that everything becomes funny, even if it isn't.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

That is one of my favorite episodes and was the first thing I thought of when Batman's laughing was brought up. His laugh and HQ's reaction were both perfect. Prior to that episode we only saw Batman let out an occasional one-breath "heh" in response to Alfred/Dick's jokes, so his laughing was pretty monumental in "Mad Love".

Yah. It was definitely a defining moment in the series. And Conroy is a God for how he played it.