The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[????]

I think it's honestly Alfred in a long coat.

 

[Hole Shot]

He looks AWESOME HERE!!!

 

[deathfromabove]

1.) Not liking how they pulled together the Jokers look has nothing to do with Heath's performance, (which by the way I loved even in the beginning when what I originally thought the performance was going to be like based on the early marketing didn't fit my conception of the character.) So let's not go there as if not liking the make-up is somehow doubting Heath and the awesome job he did, or disrespecting him and his memory in any way.

um...never said otherwise.

2.) I'm not dead set on hating "nearly everything about Nolans take" just because I'm not a Joker-in-make-up fan. Which by the way is more in the jurisdiction of the art, costuming and make-up department, than Nolan personally. I'm having a lot of problems with the costume department on this film, between the Jokers look and the new Bat-suit. I seriously doubt it was Nolan himself who said "well I absolutely hate the BB design, I demand that we have a robo-cop looking Batman or else!" He probably just told them "make it a little more comfortable for Christian" and they designed the "look" on their own. Same with the joker. He probably said "well I want the joker to look very gritty and scary" which can be done many ways, and then the costume/makeup people thought "Oh we'll have grungy, crusty make-up, and ratty clothes..."

On a film this MASSIVE the director doesn't handle all the details. The only things I would personally "blame" Nolan for is how the shots are set up and how the actors play their scenes....because that's the directors job, and I haven't had any complaints in that regard.

Honestly I wish you'd stop thinking I hate Nolan personally or something just because of various issues with the films I have. Did Nolan write the script for BB? No he did not, and that is what I didn't like about BB. Did Nolan apply Jokers make-up and pick out his grungy coat from some flea-market himself? No he did not. He lets other people do those things and only if it were something horrendously offensive to his vision would he put his foot down and stop it, otherwise he'd let the professionals and artists on the set do their job.

nolan has alot more imput on things like the costume of his main villain tha you give him credit for. look no further than my signature where he talks about some of the inspiration for the joker's grungy look. nolan is a very hands on director. you dont really seem to have a handle on how he makes movies. he didnt even run with a second unit or second unit director on begins. he was present for every shot. not exactly standard for a big budget picture. he helped nate crowley design the batmobile in his garage. i'm sure he didnt just pick some sketches off the wall for the joker. you seem to think nolan has suddenly decided to start make films in a different manner than he used to and im sorry but you are misinformed. i'm sure he had lots of imput in both designs and in the end he approved them.

and you not liking the make up is not, in and of itself, proof that dont like nolan.

you constant nolan bashin', however, is.

 

[nickyg641]

And now for something far more interesting...

WHOS IN THE BATCAVE???!!

Is it me or are you guys thinking what I'm thinking? All I did was turn up the contrast and saturation in order to get more detail on the clothes... this would not turn a brown jacket purple in case you are wondering, and I am definitely seeing purple coat, plaid pants... am I loosing it?

It's obviously Alfred. We see him in the same (BLACK) coat in later shots of the same scene.

 

[deathfromabove]

Yes I realize that, I'm just saying he didn't write the script for BB, so I can't blame him for that, and I'm not going to hold him personally responsible for the costuming either.

well he is personally responsible. he is the director after all. and he did a draft of the begins script after goyer fyi.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

and you not liking the make up is not, in and of itself, proof that dont like nolan.
you constant nolan bashin', however, is.

I don't bash NOLAN, I "bash" specific CREATIVE CHOICES.

There IS a difference my friend.

I don't really know, or particularly care, exactly who in every instance was responsible for every creative choice I don't like. But I'm not going to say they were all %100 Nolans direction, nor am I going to say that even if they were that gives me any reason to "bash him." This is about ideas, not people. I think he's a fantastic director and I'm sure he's a great human being... what the hell does that have to do with whether or not I like Joker in make up or the new bat suit or the old BB script? Do you want me to hate the guy or something? WTF.

It's like when I was in art class. Someone might "bash" my painting, but I don't take it as them bashing me, it's the painting choices they disagree with. If I'm a big enough girl to take criticism and disagreement on the part of my audience, I'm sure Nolan is quite capable of handling it himself.

 

[Boom]

He looks AWESOME HERE!!!

The ****?? Where's this from?

 

[Hole Shot]

The ****?? Where's this from?

TV spot 7. Someone video taped their TV in the non-spoiler section.

 

[deathfromabove]

i have been to art school. you're criticism is hardly constructive. and coming from a creative background i'm pretty suprised at the amount of judgement you are giving to a work that you havent seen in entirety. i was taught to judge artwork in its proper context. (shrugs)

and when i say "nolan" i'm clearly referring to him as an auteur and an artist, not a human being.

i dont think you have a personal grudge against the man, but you clearly have issues with him as an artist. that is what i'm getting at. more than once you have criticised him by name so dont even pretend like you havent been on that bandwagon sister...

i though my meaning was pretty clear.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

i have been to art school. you're criticism is hardly constructive. and coming from a creative background i'm pretty suprised at the amount of judgement you are giving to a work that you havent seen in entirety. i was taught to judge artwork in its proper context. (shrugs)

and when i say "nolan" i'm clearly referring to him as an auteur and an artist, not a human being.

i dont think you have a personal grudge against the man, but you clearly have issues with him as an artist. that is what i'm getting at. more than once you have criticised him by name so dont even pretend like you havent been on that bandwagon sister...

i though my meaning was pretty clear.

Yah like I criticized him for allowing Goyer to get away with that horrendous script and not kicking his @$$ to the curb. And even as an auteur and an artist, not liking costume designs isn't "bashing him" specifically.

Here we go - have you seen Citizen Kane? An auteur work if there ever was one. Well I don't care for the make-up job on one of Kane's old friends in the nursing home... they didn't age him nearly enough. It was pretty badly done. Guess what? That ISN'T bashing Orson Welles!!! Even Orson Welles said he wasn't happy with that make-up job. But none the less he was the auteur of the movie! How about that?

Things happen. You can't get everything you want as a director in a limited amount of time and budget and having to delegate to so many people. You honestly can not expect anyone to think that every last detail is in Nolans personal control. He does the biggest and most important things and lets other people handle the rest. And again, not liking a CHOICE has nothing to do with not liking Nolan as an ARTIST. I happen to like Nolan as an artist very much, Memento is one of the most stand out movies of the century if you ask me. He doesn't need to prove anything else an "AN ARTIST" for the rest of his life as far as I am concerned. That has nothing to do with my COSTUME PREFERENCES.

 

[Crook]

He looks AWESOME HERE!!!

It's no surprise that Heath looks his absolute best in the role, the closer it is to the comic book incarnation.

I realize this is a crap screenshot, which will obviously hide the details and may alter how it really appears, but look at it: no make-up smears, all green hair, smooth white skin, clean red smile....even if it's an illusion, it just looks oh so wonderful. Much better than most shots, imo.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

It's no surprise that Heath looks his absolute best in the role, the closer it is to the comic book incarnation.

I realize this is a crap screenshot, which will obviously hide the details and may alter how it really appears, but look at it: no make-up smears, all green hair, smooth white skin, clean red smile....even if it's an illusion, it just looks oh so wonderful. Much better than most shots, imo.

I'm with you... call me an old fashioned traditionalist.

 

[deathfromabove]

Yah like I criticized him for allowing Goyer to get away with that horrendous script and not kicking his @$$ to the curb. And even as an auteur and an artist, not liking costume designs isn't "bashing him" specifically.

Here we go - have you seen Citizen Kane? An auteur work if there ever was one. Well I don't care for the make-up job on one of Kane's old friends in the nursing home... they didn't age him nearly enough. It was pretty badly done. Guess what? That ISN'T bashing Orson Welles!!! Even Orson Welles said he wasn't happy with that make-up job. But none the less he was the auteur of the movie! How about that?

Things happen. You can't get everything you want as a director in a limited amount of time and budget and having to delegate to so many people. You honestly can not expect anyone to think that every last detail is in Nolans personal control. He does the biggest and most important things and lets other people handle the rest. And again, not liking a CHOICE has nothing to do with not liking Nolan as an ARTIST. I happen to like Nolan as an artist very much, Memento is one of the most stand out movies of the century if you ask me. He doesn't need to prove anything else an "AN ARTIST" for the rest of his life as far as I am concerned. That has nothing to do with my COSTUME PREFERENCES.

as if all you have complained about was the costume design. and if you are in fact a fan of his work excuse me or anyone else if its kinda hard to tell in between all the griping and sour grapes.

and orson welles not having control of the makeup quality is hardly the same as nolan having input on the two main characters costumes.

an if you are such a fan of nolan as an artist why not give him the benifit of the doubt? just a little???

 

[BatmanFanatic]

as if all you have complained about was the costume design. and if you are in fact a fan of his work excuse me or anyone else if its kinda hard to tell in between all the griping and sour grapes.

and orson welles not having control of the makeup quality is hardly the same as nolan having input on the two main characters costumes.

an if you are such a fan of nolan as an artist why not give him the benifit of the doubt? just a little???

What in the world does giving Nolan the benefit of the doubt have to do with liking the way Jokers make up looks? That IS what we are talking about here. It's okay for people to have a preference one way or the other.

And I think the example is relevant... in the behind the scenes special features on BB the costume designer talked about Nolan wanting something "organic, taking it back to the form" of the body - so either he did a complete 180 or the costume designers have run a muck.

 

[MARVEL-MAN]

Yeah I'm more interested in the authenticity of the character himself, not so much the make-up

Funny, I've always thought that part of a character's "authenticity" pertains also to his outer appearance. Instead of The Joker, he's made up to look more like The Crow??

 

[Bat-Mite]

Funny, I've always thought that part of a character's "authenticity" pertains also to his outer appearance. Instead of The Joker, he's made up to look more like The Crow??

More like

Really. It would be nice if folks could realize that The Crow doesn't have a monopoly on whiteface and dark circles around the eyes.

 

[Aidan2209]

Or painting his face like a clown.

 

[Crook]

More like

Really. It would be nice if folks could realize that The Crow doesn't have a monopoly on whiteface and dark circles around the eyes.

Those are bags under his eyes man. C'mon. At least use pics like Joker from BTAS if you wanted to prove that point.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Those are bags under his eyes man. C'mon. At least use pics like Joker from BTAS if you wanted to prove that point.

I was actually using the appearance in general (especially the wrinkles), since, apart from the hair and lack of a cut smile, that Joker does look like Heath's. And in that particular panel, the bags do look like dark circles, even if it is unintentional. Still, my main point was that people need to get off the Crow comparisons already. It's been done to death, and the similarities aren't that striking, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they're going to say the design of this Joker was "copied" from Dead Presidents or Blade from Puppet Master next. It would make about as much sense as the Crow comparison does.

 

[Crook]

I don't think it's a huge coincidence that people flock to the Crow for comparison. The long stringy hair, dark eye circles, and extended smile are all very similar, and aren't associated with the traditional Joker.

Yes, there are shots of Heath that look more like the Joker than the Crow, plenty of them, but I think the comparisons to Brandon are valid. I have friends that haven't even seen the Crow, and a lot of them mentioned how "oh, he looks like that Crow guy".

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

I don't think it's a huge coincidence that people flock to the Crow for comparison. The long stringy hair, dark eye circles, and extended smile are all very similar, and aren't associated with the traditional Joker.

Yes, there are shots of Heath that look more like the Joker than the Crow, plenty of them, but I think the comparisons to Brandon are valid. I have friends that haven't even seen the Crow, and a lot of them mentioned how "oh, he looks like that Crow guy".

I agree. I think Heath will do a great job acting out the part. However, he still looks more like the crow to me then The Joker.

 

[nickyg641]

I think the Crow comparisons are valid, but I also think that, because they were going with the grungier, makeup-slathered Joker, it makes sense that they would take inspiration from things like the Crow.

 

[guitarkhero311]

I don't think it's a huge coincidence that people flock to the Crow for comparison. The long stringy hair, dark eye circles, and extended smile are all very similar, and aren't associated with the traditional Joker.

Yes, there are shots of Heath that look more like the Joker than the Crow, plenty of them, but I think the comparisons to Brandon are valid. I have friends that haven't even seen the Crow, and a lot of them mentioned how "oh, he looks like that Crow guy".

The Crow isn't as daring, he can't pull of the purple like good ol' Mr. J.

 

[regwec]

All the lines from the spots seem to be very good, I'll say that much. Almost a shame to preview them at this stage, though the Joker/rooftop scene (similar though it is to '89) promises to reward many re-watches.

 

[Saint]

"I have one rule," and "Tonight you're gonna break your one rule" makes me so unbelievably happy. It defies description.