The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Marx]

Jim Gordon: Has no one thought to scrub that crap off his face?

Doctor: He bit three fingers off the nurse who tried.

That's good!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i'd love it if they tried to scrub it off and it sorta engrained it into his face where the cops scrubbed it so hard, i think that could be a plausible explanation for it to become "permawhite".

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I'm not suggesting that no one else can play the character. However, within the continuity of this current Batman series, it's not needed or necessary. This is different than Holmes being replaced by Maggie, simply because Holmes was forgettable and the recast wasn't a big deal. Heath's role, however, is much more iconic and memorable and I don't think we need the stigma of a recast when it's not necessary.




It's not about understanding Heath not being able to reprise the role, but about what the public would want. So far, people seem to be pretty damn content with Heath's portrayal and the film in general. I haven't heard anyone (aside from some of the crazed fanboys) clamoring for a recast. "Depp should play Joker in the next one!" "Daniel Day-Lewis could do it!"

When Heath took on the role, there were instantly comparisons to Nicholson. "How will Heath stack up?" "Which Joker is better?" But there was the benefit of having 20 years between the two films, and being apart of their own respective series. Can you imagine what it would be like if the role was recast in the next film, a mere three of four years after this one, in the same continuity?




I'd rather have Nolan show us how the Joker has changed things in Gotham, and how there is now a sense of dread that lingers of the city. Batman is now a murderer in the eyes of Gotham. Harvey Dent is dead. The Joker has left behind a boy count of dozens and has deconstructed the hope that Gotham citizens once had.

I don't think we need to see the Joker in a padded cell to understand the impact he has had on the city.

while i slightly agree with this i think if nolan was to do a third the joker would have to be included somehow. you say people are talking about johnny depp and daniel day lewis and yea i would agree with you not to use them. i would cast paul bettany, i think he could do a good job and at least get the look right for the joker. he plays intense characters well and is about the same age i think.

 

[deathfromabove]

Indeed. I was very pleased to find that the Joker conformed nicely to what I was hoping for, as communicated in my assorted posts in this thread. Especially the "Guerilla Joker" one.

yeah he seemed to line up up pretty well with your thoughts on the character, as well as with mine.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

i was thinking about ways to make the joker "permawhite" if hes in the next installation. i could image the cops beating the crap of him and scrubbin his face with brushes to get the make up off. but what if they were scrubbing so hard it cut his face up and ingrained the makeup into his fresh wounds? not completly covering his face but making patches of it scarred with the make - up? i think that could be quite plausible.

 

[regwec]

Yeah, I had a similar idea, in which the SWAT team beat his face in, leaving him in need of reconstuctive surgery. This would explain a change in actor (to some extent) as well as providing an explanation for his face being mummified in bandages when he is introduced. Some kind of comment on the irreversability of his makeup could concievably be built into this, because he would be cleaned thoroughly before surgery.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

haha yea sounds a suitably nasty way to introduce the character in the next film.........if theres a next film!

 

[Saint]

Eh, that really doesn't fly for me. Makeup bleeding into his wounds and changing his complexion just doesn't seem plausible.

Another possible solution could be that Joker chemically burns himself intentionally, which, upon healing, leaves his face in a similar ragged white condition as the makeup, except permanent. It might even be possible while he's in Arkham; they wash the makeup off, and later he (somehow) gets his hands on some chemicals that create the desired effect. He'd be in bandages for a time afterwards, and it could make for a neat reveal. I just question the explainability of finding the correct chemical, especially if he does it in Arkham.

I suppose he could engineer something himself, but fairly complicated itself, and equally unlikely within Arkham.

 

[regwec]

How is that more plausible than the guy getting beaten up?

I like your idea well enough, though. I suppose you could have The Joker burn the makeup onto his own face, as a kind of existential demonstration of the theme of escalation, and as a physical refelction of his monologue about the permanence of his confrontation with Batman.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea i've mentioned that before, he could really fly off the handle one day and just pour a bottle of bleach over himself screaming and laughing in pain as he does it. like when some prisoners protest they have a "smear-up" in their cells, well the joker could protest by disfiguring himself even more!!

 

[dark_b]

some guys in prison want drugs. you know you can get everything there. but the joker on the other hand just wants som paint. but they give hime some paint mixed with chemicals. the next day he wakes up he has a permawhite skin hehehehhehe

 

[Dangerous]

I was one of the guys against the make-up, but in the film Ledger was so good that it did not matter to me.

There was the issue of consistency regarding the paint however.

During the interrogation scene, in one shot Joker has a smeared patchy face, then it cuts to being fully whited up, and then back again. You could clearly see where they had cut and resumed filming.

So re: the issues of consistency and accuracy to the source, I would have preferred the bleached skin, but Ledger’s Joker was so good that it did not effect my enjoyment of the performance.

 

[KonkeyDong]

prison tats?

 

[nickyg641]

I just think that, at this point, the Joker becoming permawhite would be rather contrived. Especially if it's...beaten in to his face? Okay...

 

[Jokers_Wild]

Since there's no definitive backstory for TDK's Joker...how do we know that underneath the make-up his face isn't discolored, with patchy perma-white?

I mean for all we know, he could've been the one in deep with the sharks gambling, had a smile cut, and then his face held down in some chemicals till he was left for dead drowned. Except he came back...saw the smile and the patchy whiteness left from the chemicals, and used make-up to compliment his clown-like appearance. Just sayin'.

edit: I don't think the brief moment he is shown on screen without white make-up is definitive enough to say he didn't use flesh tone paint to disguise himself. He looked unnatural in that short bit...

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. In fact, it would work against the objective of rehabiliation. If the Joker is allowed to keep his persona alive by wearing make-up in his cell, wouldn't Scarecrow be allowed to wear his mask "if it was easier on those involved"? I know you are one of those against the realistic realm Nolan has created, but in this day and age, when patients can be so easily sedated and controlled, it just doesn't seem plausible.

What if somebody kept smuggling make-up into Arkham and giving it to the Joker?

Maybe an easter egg where one doctor says to another, "I really wish Dr. Quinzel would stop doing that. I think it's impeding his recovery." They wouldn't even have to show her, and we'd all nod knowingly.

 

[nickyg641]

Since there's no definitive backstory for TDK's Joker...how do we know that underneath the make-up his face isn't discolored, with patchy perma-white?

I mean for all we know, he could've been the one in deep with the sharks gambling, had a smile cut, and then his face held down in some chemicals till he was left for dead. Except he came back...saw the smile and the patchy whiteness left from the chemicals, and used make-up to compliment his clown-like appearance. Just sayin'.

Because we see him without makeup. And, at this point, assuming that he really does have blotchy white skin makes about as much sense as assuming he has a third eye on the back of his head.

 

[regwec]

You seem him without makeup, and he looks like Death in eyeliner. It's impossible to say whether the effect is supposed to represent the removal of makeup or something else, but it certainly doesn't look anything like healthy, happy Heath Ledger.

 

[Saint]

How is that more plausible than the guy getting beaten up?

I didn't say anything about it being more plausible than getting beaten up. That said, I do think it's more plausible than regular makeup seeping into his wounds and (somehow) becoming permanent, though.

 

[Dark Globe]

Joker accidentally fell face first on some glass and then accidentally washed his face with Bleach. Problem solved.

 

[nickyg641]

You seem him without makeup, and he looks like Death in eyeliner. It's impossible to say whether the effect is supposed to represent the removal of makeup or something else, but it certainly doesn't look anything like healthy, happy Heath Ledger.

Well, he's doesn't look like Ledger, but that doesn't mean there's anything strange going on with his normal face. He just looks like a pale man with sunken eyes. You get the same effect when you haven't seen the sun in a while. Especially when you're wearing a half an inch of caked on makeup, which I would imagine doesn't help the tan.

 

[Crook]

His arms and fingers are a different matter though. They still look "off" to me.

 

[bonesawmcgraw]

Actually, i think it'd be cool if in prison or in arkham Joker's make-up is washed off. With no access to make-up, he resorts to bleaching himself with chemicals. They once again try to remove the whiteness from his face but fail. This is a nice reflection of how deranged and against-authority he really is.

 

[nickyg641]

His arms and fingers are a different matter though. They still look "off" to me.

Any pics you can reference? If you're talking about the redness of his fingers and what not, I would imagine that's bruising.

 

[The-Dark-Knight]

That's not over analysing it. It's simple obvious logic.

Of course they'd have a choice. You think they couldn't force the Joker to have that make up washed off if they wanted to? Lets not be absurd here. Of course they could.

As clever and as mature as this film was Logic is not always the key word, Did you see Batman bend the Gun the fake batman was holding?

Regwec's line was great and would have been a wonderful addition to the film. At the end of the day it is a comic book movie sometimes you just gotta let go of logic.