The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Beanjuice]

What if somebody kept smuggling make-up into Arkham and giving it to the Joker?

Maybe an easter egg where one doctor says to another, "I really wish Dr. Quinzel would stop doing that. I think it's impeding his recovery." They wouldn't even have to show her, and we'd all nod knowingly.

that would be a cool little easter egg

You seem him without makeup, and he looks like Death in eyeliner. It's impossible to say whether the effect is supposed to represent the removal of makeup or something else, but it certainly doesn't look anything like healthy, happy Heath Ledger.

Exactly, the happy look of himself was completely drained away there

 

[FoJacob]

You seem him without makeup, and he looks like Death in eyeliner. It's impossible to say whether the effect is supposed to represent the removal of makeup or something else, but it certainly doesn't look anything like healthy, happy Heath Ledger.

I wonder how they achieved that effect, besides the scars. Because you're right, it is quite jarring when we see him without the make-up - to me he was more frightening then than when he was wearing the make-up. I can't put my finger on what exactly it was about his face (besides the scars) that looked so... unnatural. The eyes, I guess... So cold and empty.

 

[Saint]

As clever and as mature as this film was Logic is not always the key word, Did you see Batman bend the Gun the fake batman was holding?

He was using a hydraulic grip/gauntlet to bend the barrel, not his bare hand. He then uses the same device to rip into the side of Scarecrow's van.

 

[Saint]

It appears Nolan and company may have considered making Joker white at some point. These concepts are more faithful in certain areas and less so in others. Personally, I actually find them to be a little too unsettling. The final design is unsettling, too, certainly, but as with everything, it is about degrees. These concepts go a little too far. The clown vibe is entirely gone, replaced by some gruesome slasher-film aesthetic. I definitely prefer the final product, which finds a better balance (and personally, I find to be more visually interesting.

I wonder if they ever played with a bleached look that is more blotchy. What I mean to say is completely white, but with uneven tone--unhealthy, darker and lighter in certain areas. That might serve to keep the interesting texture of the makeup without actually being makeup.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

I can't believe "permawhite" is still an issue around here. haha

Ridiculous.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I can't believe "permawhite" is still an issue around here. haha

Ridiculous.

For me the performance and writing of this Joker demonstrates the insignificance of the permawhite issue. I admit when I learned of a makeup Joker I was taken back b/c I was so used to a permawhite Joker on film and tv. But now I realize that performance and writing can mitigate some visual/origin issues with the character.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Shane Diesel, I like the way you think man. I mean I was confused at first, but it quickly became a non-issue. In fact, visually, I think this is the most interesting version of the character I've seen. And to me the rotting makeup is a more disturbing image anyway. Shows how ape **** crazy the guy is ...

 

[deathfromabove]

It appears Nolan and company may have considered making Joker white at some point. These concepts are more faithful in certain areas and less so in others. Personally, I actually find them to be a little too unsettling. The final design is unsettling, too, certainly, but as with everything, it is about degrees. These concepts go a little too far. The clown vibe is entirely gone, replaced by some gruesome slasher-film aesthetic. I definitely prefer the final product, which finds a better balance (and personally, I find to be more visually interesting.

I wonder if they ever played with a bleached look that is more blotchy. What I mean to say is completely white, but with uneven tone--unhealthy, darker and lighter in certain areas. That might serve to keep the interesting texture of the makeup without actually being makeup.

thanks for the scans. now i have even less reason to buy that book. i like the one at the top but the rest, while interesting to see, are too texas chainsaw for the joker.

if you have the book could you scan the costume concepts too?

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Speaking of costume concepts, I don't know if anyone noticed this ... but all the dates are from roughly 2006 and they have the generic facial image of I guess what was originally the plan for his look like the guys above with the green spiked hair. It was obvious it was done before Heath was cast. Then there is just ONE costume concept done by Linda Hemming that is dated August 2007, and by then they were already half way done with filming for TDK. My theory, being that the costume concept has Joker wearing a scarf and what not ... was this a costume concept for what Joker would look like in the sequel if it were to take place in Winter Time? It's an interesting theory to me, especially considering its the only costume design with Heath's look for the head, and of course the date being August 2007, after they were already well over halfway shooting TDK. Any thoughts on this possibly being a look made for a sequel that was to take place in Winter Time?

 

[Saint]

I can't believe "permawhite" is still an issue around here.

...It's still an issue?

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

...It's still an issue?

People are coming up with ways to explain how he could be "permawhite" in a sequel ... yeah, still sounds like an un-healthy issue to me.

 

[nickyg641]

It appears Nolan and company may have considered making Joker white at some point. These concepts are more faithful in certain areas and less so in others. Personally, I actually find them to be a little too unsettling. The final design is unsettling, too, certainly, but as with everything, it is about degrees. These concepts go a little too far. The clown vibe is entirely gone, replaced by some gruesome slasher-film aesthetic. I definitely prefer the final product, which finds a better balance (and personally, I find to be more visually interesting.

I agree. It's cool to look at them and think about what could have been, though.

I wonder if they ever played with a bleached look that is more blotchy. What I mean to say is completely white, but with uneven tone--unhealthy, darker and lighter in certain areas. That might serve to keep the interesting texture of the makeup without actually being makeup.

It is s interesting to see that all early makeup designs were seemingly permawhite, which implies that, at one point, it was considered. And I agree about the unhealthy-looking, unsettling permawhite. That would have been interesting to see. Something like this is how I envision permawhite in Nolan's universe:

Creepy, corpse-like, uneven.

 

[mcallima]

People are coming up with ways to explain how he could be "permawhite" in a sequel ... yeah, still sounds like an un-healthy issue to me.

How is it unhealthy? Some of us just really hated the way the makeup looked. Disagree with us all you want, but to deride our preference as "unhealthy" is a sign of arrogance.

 

[Crook]

The thing is though, what would bleaching NOW, do? Asides from the obvious of looking more aesthetically pleasing for some of the fans? They've set a precedent that it's makeup so minds as well just roll with it. They can still appease people by making it more "solid" white and avoid moments where the make-up would run.

 

[nickyg641]

The thing is though, what would bleaching NOW, do? Asides from the obvious of looking more aesthetically pleasing for some of the fans? They've set a precedent that it's makeup so minds as well just roll with it. They can still appease people by making it more "solid" white and avoid moments where the make-up would run.

I agree. Giving him white skin now would really be a cop-out. Personally, I don't mind it any more.

 

[mcallima]

^ Well, I highly doubt we're going to see the Joker in the next film. As that film will likely be Nolan's last, there's no need for the next director to follow precedent. When the Joker inevitably pops up again, I do hope it's with a more faithful aesthetic.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

No, I just don't understand the rigidness that some have that they can't ACCEPT that he have makeup instead of pure white skin. And like many have agreed on, his look in TDK is for intensive purposes probably the most frightening the Joker has ever looked. And the fact that it IS makeup and it DOES run plays into that fact.

 

[Saint]

People are coming up with ways to explain how he could be "permawhite" in a sequel ... yeah, still sounds like an un-healthy issue to me.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow: talking about how the Joker could be more faithful is an "unhealthy issue?" Curious. When you talk about things you want in a sequel, is that "unhealthy?" Could you provide a list of things that are "healthy" and a list that are "unhealthy?" Or, if a list is unavailable, could you provide the criteria that must be met in order for an issue to be "healthy?" I'd just like to know what is safe for us to talk about.

My feelings on bleaching the Joker aren't particularly strong (and guess what: I was still able to talk about ways he could go white making it an "unhealthy issue"), but that was just a silly, silly thing to say.

 

[Nepenthes]

you don't get too many points for pointing at that perma-white is an irrelevant issue by now. everyone knows that, okay. but of course people will still find reason to talk about it, so what? in this case there are actual images of a real permawhite TDK joker. that's kinda of significant.

it's really easy to talk about other posters here instead of talking about batman. and THAT, is pointless

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

WOW reading back a couple pages in the thread is funny as hell.

the ideas on how to make him perma-white in the next instalment [assuming there is going to be another one] is just amazing what some of us fanboys are coming up with.

Beating it into his face and it seeping into his face lol...
riiiggghhtttt

 

[Etienne]

Speaking of costume concepts, I don't know if anyone noticed this ... but all the dates are from roughly 2006 and they have the generic facial image of I guess what was originally the plan for his look like the guys above with the green spiked hair. It was obvious it was done before Heath was cast. Then there is just ONE costume concept done by Linda Hemming that is dated August 2007, and by then they were already half way done with filming for TDK. My theory, being that the costume concept has Joker wearing a scarf and what not ... was this a costume concept for what Joker would look like in the sequel if it were to take place in Winter Time? It's an interesting theory to me, especially considering its the only costume design with Heath's look for the head, and of course the date being August 2007, after they were already well over halfway shooting TDK. Any thoughts on this possibly being a look made for a sequel that was to take place in Winter Time?

Please elaborate, where is the picture of him wearing a scarf?

 

[Two_Face]

Some people need to face reality: HE WON'T BE PERMAWHITE!

Besides, I like him applying make-up more anyway. Acid/toxic chemicals tend to burn the skin, not bleach it. If he wants to know how to become permawhite he just has to ask Michael Jackson.

 

[Batmania]

Is him being permawhite really that important? I can't fathom why this is still being discussed. I always thought it was a kind of a silly idea in the comics and I still do. The Joker is more frightening without a known origin, IMO. And no, I am not a "sheep".

The origin of Two-Face's scarring was also changed - from acid to catching fire. That also differed from the comics and yet people don't seem to have a problem with that? I'm also glad they changed that. He gets acid splashed in his face and that burns his face exactly down the middle, to a straight line. Yeah, right.

 

[Etienne]

You bring up a good point on Two-Face. It's a wonder why people have yet to voice their opinions on his non comic transformation.

 

[Crook]

People have.

As for the "straight-line" complaint, how it was depicted in TDK is pretty much how it's drawn in the comics. Artists rarely every draw a perfect split line on his face anymore.